Need help with lead rein pony!!

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safrow46

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My daughters pony is a welsh sec a mare 15 yrs old. She is a lead rein/first ridden pony. My daughter has had lots of success with her on the lead rein, qualifying for UK showing this year. She is well schooled and a pleasure to own, we have had her for 2 yrs. However, recently she has picked up a bad habit where she sticks her nose out in the air, pulls at the reins by tossing her head and literally drags us around the arena!! My daughter is 8 yrs old and does ride off the lead but we are still eligable for LR so want to continue this for another season. Our pony is ridden in a jointed wilkie snaffle bit. Her teeth have been recently checked and also her back and saddle. Can anyone offer any advice as to why our good little pony is behaving this way??
 
The Wilkie isn't really a snaffle as it has more of a lever effect, have you tried the pony in a standard snaffle, one without the single join so like a French link or mullen mouth

It may of course not be the bit but some of the show ponies you see have such rigid neck and heads resulting from 'training methods' that they will accept a Wilkie without question

If you are sure it's not the bit I'd get teeth checked as next step
 
Yes it has been a thought of mine so we had her holding a strap on the saddle and reins loose but still the same. Our pony rides beautifully off the lead with my daughter and holds her head nicely so its a mystery?!
 
Thanks welsh d, yes I thought the wilkie would help with head carriage and she has been in it over a year, I tried a plain mullen mouth loose ring bit but still head the same trouble if not worse as she seemed to be leaning on it. She goes really well in a curb with an older child but obviously my daughter can't ride her in one! Ive never had to yank her head in with side reins or any artificial aids and didnt want to have to start doing so.
 
If it is riders hands the habit will take more than one go to break anyway. I'd preferably get her ridden in a headcollar only in the arena for a few weeks to see if it breaks the habits either might have, then try again in a French link.
 
Sorry stupid phone! I assume you lead from the bit rings? Try attaching to noseband instead ? My leadrein pony wouldn't tolerate lead rein attached to bit but is fab with it on back of noseband.
 
Hmmm that's tricky then! It sounds like you are sensible enough to have tried all the obvious things then

I'm guessing from your comments that the pony does this at home as well as at shows, is there maybe a trigger point at which this happens?

Maybe try lungeing with a cavesson over the bridle and switch the combination of with/without rider, reins and side reins to see if you can narrow things down

It's a real shame you are having problems after so much success :(
 
Sorry but I would suggest rider hands too....

Our pony does this if daughter is tense and over shortens the reins- luckily daughter has caught on now and feels when she's going to do it and has the confidence to drop he reins- pony has nothing to snatch against and loses balance- so its work well for both daughter learning not to have reins too short and pony realises she wobbles when she does it.

Good luck and hope you all continue with your success!
 
Pony has probably learned that she can snatch reins out of childs hands - which isn't very nice. I would work her in grass reins for a while, so she catches herself when she does it. You certainly wouldn't want her doing it when she is ridden off the lead.
 
My guess is that pony has decided that daughter no longer needs the lead-rein and is trying to tell you to let go. If daughter rides at home off the lead, do you think pony would be ok on the lead in a show-ring, or is she doing the same in the ring already? I know many ponies which behave completely differently for riders at different stages and who can become rather self-opinionated.
 
I always keep the lead rein on noseband as that is correct for show ring. I will keep trying to figure her out and will try lunging in side reins. Thanks for your help
 
Grass reins aren't the solution at all imo. Ponies snatch reins for a reason, they don't just do it because they can. So unless the cause is 'I want to put my head down & graze' they are pretty pointless for snatching. Unless you eliminate the reason its done, pony will just find an alternative way to object.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
My guess is that pony has decided that daughter no longer needs the lead-rein and is trying to tell you to let go. If daughter rides at home off the lead, do you think pony would be ok on the lead in a show-ring, or is she doing the same in the ring already? I know many ponies which behave completely differently for riders at different stages and who can become rather self-opinionated.
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Haha I was thinking the same! She is much better behaved off the lead rein, in fact my daughter only ever has the leadrein when at shows as she is too nervous to do first ridden but at home she can perform a lovely show. She does get tense, especially in the showring so perhaps this is also contributing to the ponys behaviour as my daughter will pull the reins very tight and locks her shoulders and elbows when nervous
 
littlelegs said:
Grass reins aren't the solution at all imo. Ponies snatch reins for a reason, they don't just do it because they can. So unless the cause is 'I want to put my head down & graze' they are pretty pointless for snatching. Unless you eliminate the reason its done, pony will just find an alternative way to object.
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What a strange statement. IME (having had a few LR/FR ponies) you can guarantee that most ponies absolutely DO do things just because they can. Moving your child to horses at the earliest possible opportunity is a great relief.
 
safrow46 said:
. She does get tense, especially in the showring so perhaps this is also contributing to the ponys behaviour as my daughter will pull the reins very tight and locks her shoulders and elbows when nervous
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This will be the reason I imagine, then. Lessons with a fun instructor would probably be a good idea, someone who can jolly daughter along & encourage her to rbe less reliant on the reins
 
siennamum said:
What a strange statement. IME (having had a few LR/FR ponies) you can guarantee that most ponies absolutely DO do things just because they can. Moving your child to horses at the earliest possible opportunity is a great relief.
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Agree with this - ponies definitely will snatch at the reins because they can!

Have you tried taking the jockey off and working alone with the pony using a libby's lungie bungie? This way you can teach the pony some manners without worrying about reaction from child. LR training is all about repetition and you need to make sure the pony is really listening to you and manners are a MUST.
 
Thanks everyone. I will try the lunging without rider and also will switch instructors as hers is very stern and quite old fashioned! Thanks everyone
 
Ponies only ever do anything for a reason, even if sometimes its unfathomable to us. The pony that grazes on hacks with tinies, but not with an older child, does so because it wants to graze, & with the less experienced child it can. The pony that snatches reins like ops always has a reason, whether its rider hands, pony preferring to race about for fun, boredom, pain etc. There's always a reason. And I prefer to solve the cause, rather than physically prevent the symptom. I've never yet met an equine who behaves in a certain manner for anything but a reason, even if its one that isn't acceptable.
 
littlelegs said:
Ponies only ever do anything for a reason, even if sometimes its unfathomable to us. The pony that grazes on hacks with tinies, but not with an older child, does so because it wants to graze, & with the less experienced child it can. The pony that snatches reins like ops always has a reason, whether its rider hands, pony preferring to race about for fun, boredom, pain etc. There's always a reason. And I prefer to solve the cause, rather than physically prevent the symptom. I've never yet met an equine who behaves in a certain manner for anything but a reason, even if its one that isn't acceptable.
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There is an obvious reason. If they snatch the reins they can eat, go in their preferred direction, at their preferred speed, or just dispense with the annoying little sprat on board. Small children have little control. A pony which doesn't try and take advantage of this (just because it can) is as rare as hens teeth. Sometimes the small people need assistance from gadgets.
 
I've never really had a problem with it tbh. I can think of a few that needed daisy reins for hacking, but even if its a pony that would just prefer to race about, I would get the child to do something that kept the pony occupied usefully. And in ops case it doesn't really sound like the pony is just doing it to prove a point.
 
Agree with littlelegs. It sounds as though instead of having her arms straight down from shoulder to elbow and then straight from elbow to ponies mouth she has them going straight ish from shoulder to mouth. This is a really common cause of them snatching their reins like this. I would eliminate that possibility first.
 
safrow46 said:
Haha I was thinking the same! She is much better behaved off the lead rein, in fact my daughter only ever has the leadrein when at shows as she is too nervous to do first ridden but at home she can perform a lovely show. She does get tense, especially in the showring so perhaps this is also contributing to the ponys behaviour as my daughter will pull the reins very tight and locks her shoulders and elbows when nervous
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I know it sounds a bit far-fetched but I've seen ponies do similar things in the past, in response to different riders, including those who hunt with capable riders but behave impeccably for children in RDA lessons.
My guess is that your daughter's tension and nerves are having an effect on the pony, you need to find a way to encourage her to relax.
 
Just a thought but is saddle fitting well, as I think ponies sometimes snatch to stretch when their back is uncomfortable. Could you find another experienced rider small enough to ride to see what pony does then? I don't really like Wilkies and feel lead rein ponies should not rely on these types of bit but this is not intended as a criticism as I know lots of showing people use them. Hope you get it sorted, good luck, you sound like you have done very well.
 
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