Need help with leading my youngster.

Feathered

Feathered

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Hi everyone, just after a bit of advice and reassurance. Having some problems leading my 20 month old traddy cob.

He was pretty much unhandled when I got him in September, when he was first taught to lead he was excellent, dope on a rope! Then we had a phase of him bucking, exuberance I think, got through that, then a phase of him planting his feet and refusing to move, have got past that one.
Then up until last week he was being a little angel, I bitted him and it went really well, he's been led round with the bit in but not from the bit and all went well.

Then last week I brought him out of the field and he was a bit stroppy, stamping his feet n stuff, I just told him oi, stop it! next time he was a bit more stroppy, didn't want to go back in his paddock, and basically his behavior has worsened since then.

As soon as the headcollar goes on he's awful, he's just decided he doesn't want to cooperate, he's taken to spinning round, trying to run off and I'm left clinging to the end of the leadrope. I'm having visions of him careering off with the leadrope dangling and him hurting himself.

Have tried telling him off, this makes him worse, i got him back in the field last time by woah woahing when he started spinning round, then calmly talking to him regathering ourselves and walking on, took a couple of goes but then he walked ok.

Today though that tactic had stopped working, he wouldn't go anyway I wanted just started trotting round me in circles, swinging round and trying to run off. I had to get my long suffering OH to wrestle him back into the field.

In other ways he is good, picks his feet up fine, will move over when asked
and back up, and is getting much better at respecting space in the field, he now stands by you and waits for attention rather than barging right into you. It's just the leading problems.

I was having visions of leading him out round the lanes and doing the odd local show in the summer but I'm now thinking it's just not going to happen.

He is handled daily whilst I poo pick, feet picked up and asked to back up etc and comes out of his field about 3 or 4 times a week, tied up, brushed and led around a bit, only for about 10mins at a time.

So any advice please anyone? Tell me this is normal stroppy baby behavior and we'll get through it. I feel I am constantly taking 2 steps forward then 3 steps back. I just want my nicely behaved dopey coblet back. :( :(

Thanks loads in advance and a large hot chocolate with whipped cream for anyone who read through all my waffling.
 
its typical traditional cob behaviour LOL I have a little filly and she is going through the stages early, sounds like hes just having a cob moment and trying it on. Can you use a lunge line when you lead so he cant pull the lead rope from your hand?

Also have you tried leading from the bit ? maybe thats just the extra omph you need to stop him being silly.
 
Sounds like he's testing your boundaries. I was recommended (on here) using a plastic bottle with a few stones in it to rattle at my trad yearling when he mucked about. Worked a treat :) Use it to stop him in his tracks AND to then back up too...
 
Cheers for hot choc!! I had this problem with a new forest youngster, we tackled it by getting him to follow another horse in, and when he did it well, he got a treat (i know some folks dont think you should use treats to teach them things tho!) I also tried to do things her wasnt expecting, like stopping, taking a step backwards, turning a small tight circle for no reason, and did resort to leading in a bridle for a while too!! The bottom line is it will get better, once you are through the terrible twos!
PS I'm in worcester too, nice part of the world!!
 
My coblet was like this when I first got him. Would lock his head and tank off, no hope in hell of hanging on. I started leading him with a chain lead rope, putting the chain through his headcollar and under his chin. I would give a short sharp tug when he started messing around and as soon as he stopped, praise him. He soon worked out what was acceptable.

I also found leading him in a bridle to and from the field in the same way worked wonders. Plus, gets them used to being led in it which transfers well to taking them out and about :) Your coblet will get there, I find they just need a firm hand and they soon respect you once you find an approach which makes them stop in their tracks and not just ignore the tugging on the end of the rope lol.
 
Thanks for the replies guys, I'm feeling a bit better already. I'll give your suggestions a go and I'll start leading from the bit.
My concern with that up til now was with his behaviour so inconsistent I'd end up accidentally proper yanking him in the mouth and hurting him then putting him off the bit.
 
If he was abit older id be tempted to put a lunge line on him and every time he charges off force him out on a circle and make him work....bit young though
 
My fell went through a phase of being a pain to lead (and sometimes reverts to it again!). I worked with him in the school in hand, voice commands, back forward, over etc. I also lead him in and out in a bridle for about 2 weeks so I had more control and then spent a while when I was leading him in stopping, reversing, going over etc. I taught him to lead in hand with me holding a schooling whip so I could tap him up to go forwards too. I also had a problem with him diving for grass which was solved with a whack across the chest with a crop everytime he did it - took about 3 days for that habit to stop! Now he can be a bit fresh to lead in and out and if he's in a particularly arsey mood I loop the lead rope over his nose for a bit of extra control. Normally now (touch wood) he dances alongside you but doesn't b*gger off and leave you face down in the mud - which he did to my lovely YO resulting in the mother of all tellings off!
 
The other sugestion that may help is to get someone very experienced that you trust to help you. Our 2yo who is now 16h started this recently and he was just too big to argue with. Came out of the blue as he had always been an angel. Our lovely YO who is an AI and has always had her own youngsters helped us. 3 40 minute sessions of practice (one with just her and 2 with me and my daughter taking turns under supervision) has made an enormous improvement. I am so pleased we asked for help. There has been no arguing, no pushing, no shouting and no beating (well one good whack for a very rude bite:eek:), just calm, experienced consistent handling. So if he is getting too much ask for help early - it pays off:)
 
It does sound like he's just going through a bit of a phase to be honest and testing what he can get away. However, is he out with other horses? I assume he is as you have another in your pictures. i have a nearly 20 mth old too and he had been very well handled when i got him in July so he'll tie up, have his feet picked out etc etc and he leads ok (save for the attempting to bo bite whoever's leading him!).

I do lead him in a control headcollar just so my 'commands' are a bit more clear and so I know I have control as he can try and lean and pull on a normal headcollar. I have not bitted him yet either. I would suggest maybe a stronger headcollar (some control type/chain one) so that you know he cannot b*gger off once you have caught him and I would almost try and ignore his mucking about as much as possible.

You are doing the right things in your handling asking him ot back up etc but have you made it clear to him when he needs to walk on?

I had some lessons in handling mine from someone i know is very successful in treating certain behaviours. She basically uses a contriol headcollar and a schooling whip. What you need to do is stand infront on your horse and from there tap him (where you would use your leg) with the whip - start with light taps and increase the firmness of them until he stesp forwards. Lead him a few steps slowly, halt him and the repeat. Do this on both sides - he will learn quickly what is required. DO NOT hit him with the whip though, it is an aid not a punishment. If he does get flinchy with it then quietly stroke him with it occasionally to reassure him it is nothing scary.

I would also maybe suggest giving him a bit of a break from handling - although you are not asking him to do a lot you sound like you are doing something with hm every day. I actually do less with mine than i did to start with, i am letting him be a horse really. I will interact with him every day - ie stroke him, make sure i can walk behind him, touch his bottom etc when he's being fed, just generally be nice to him. He will come in everyso often for a bit of leading and grooming, feet picked out and the odd walk out on the roads.

maybe try a little bit of less is more - don't always try and catch him just sometimes be there, let him come to you, have a little 'chat' and then leave him be.

Don't get me wrong I intend to do more with mine in the spring but for now i am more or less letting him be and just occasionally re-establishing some gorundwork etc. i feel he's come on loads, his handling has actually improved, he's less fidgety and doesn't bite as much. he likes to come in and in fact is reluctant to go back out as he enjoys a bit of brain work everyso often. He is not overloaded though. Do remember your horse is still a baby.

Sorry, i have rambled on WAY too much there! Lol
 
the joys of the terrible 2's. i would suggest a chain or a bit or a chifney, and manner him now when he is only half strength. otherwise he will grow into a thug of a cob! be careful, wear your hat and good gloves, and a lunge line so you cant loose him. if he is being very rude a few yanks will put him in his place (and it wont spoil him it will improve him) he has to learn respect. and as you are only 10 stone approx versus his 400 kg he is much stronger than you, but he really should never learn this!!! maybe some dedicated time to leading, standing, waiting. lead over poles, around cones to help keep it interesting. and i dont know what you are feeding him but less in the bucket until you have regained the alpha position in the relationship. lots of praise and pats when he is good.
 
ladyt25 said:
It does sound like he's just going through a bit of a phase to be honest and testing what he can get away. However, is he out with other horses? I assume he is as you have another in your pictures.

Sorry, i have rambled on WAY too much there! Lol
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Noooo, Don't say sorry, lots to think about, thanks to everyone.

Yes he is turned out 24/7 with my grumpy old mare (bless her soul) who is just excellent at keeping him in his place, I wish I was half as good at it as her, she just has to look at him and he moves away and if he doesn't he gets a bite on the backside! lol.
 
hi feathered
i have a 20 month old irish draught, she's gorge, but has her moments. I bitted her last year as i was going to do some showing, but an injury in the field put a stop to the showing. I used a baby rubber straight bar really sft, but i never led her from the bit, only the headcollar, she like yours was well behaved with that in her mouth.
Anyway I have had my problems with her, they go through stages of testing. its just like kids, the terrible 2's then the terrible 5's etc. Horses are the same, when she first started misbehaving, it was quite major so i bought a dually headcollar, as this is not severe, but you can attach your leadrope to the rope accross the nose under the noseband part, (if that makes sense) a yank on that when misbehaving soon puts a stop to it. Also i found with her that maybe i talked abit to much to her. So now when im leading, i lead her quietly, i never look at her, but i can feel through my rope what she doing and where she's looking, so i know if somethings coming that may scare her, if i feel she getting tense through the rope, i simply say to her "its alright" once we are passed the deman.. i say woa, i then give her a rub on her neck and give her a treat. I know everyone has their own views on treats, but she now knows, that when i say "good girl" that she has been a good girl and gets a treat. This maybe only twice a day and while leading, but i tell you she's coming on great. So both of my mares only get a "good girl" when they have been really good and deserve a reward. I find that too many people use good girl and good boy freely, when the horse actually hasn't done anything to get a good girl and a good boy.
A few months ago, i too had a problem getting her into the field she would just stop by the gate as if to say, im not going in there. So i overcame that simply by being quiet and leading her to the gate, asking her to wao, opening the gate, she would then go backwards, - never turn and look at them, look forward where you want to go, and would say to her "its alright" and she would gradually follow me into the field, i then would say good girl and offer her 1 x horsie treat. Now she will go in without getting a treat - she will ask me politely for a treat and i just say No. so i now i have her understanding that going into the field is what i want her to do, i choose when to reward her, and she accepts this.
she is stabled overnight, so gets excited in the morning when its time to come out, but im very firm and quiet with my words, she calms down quite quickly.
i wish you luck with yours, maybe consider a dually they are great, also i have an extra long leadrope, about 2 1/2 to 3 meters, i find this really helpful with youngsters. But do keep leading him around, because although he's going through the terrible 2's leading him around he will gain your respect more, and should calm down.
 
Feathered, I've been where you are! I have to be honest in that I think a lot of the suggestions here (chains, leading from the bit, lunge line, follow another horse) are secondary solutions (and believe me, I've tried the lot!!) and not getting to the heart of the problem.

Be honest, in your relationship with your horse, who do you think is the boss at the moment?

Loads of people tried to give me advice and I plugged away with a difficult (and dangerous) horse for 4 years (i.e. birth to age 4) before a bad accident made me realise it wasn't working. At one point we would have 3 people leading him - 2 on lead ropes either side and one on lunge line behind. We still couldn't hold him, and he was only 18 months and around 12hh at the time!!

I think you really need to work on being 'assertive' (not, as I was, passive agressive - ignore, tell off, ignore, tell off - yes it's easy to do I know!) with your horse, and practice handling in the school until you can go backwards, forwards, round and round anywhere you want without him getting his own ideas (oh, yes, and don't forget to stand still for AGES without him moving a hoof!).

I learnt all this from a really excellent trainer, who thankfully, turned my rogue horse (sadly, it was because I had mishandled him without even knowing it) around and now everyone thinks he's a dobbin!! Certainly wouldn't dream of p***ing off with me ever again - not leading, riding, ever.

Hope this helps some - feel free to PM me if you like.
 
Hey there! I'm starting to wonder if it's a 20 month old thing reading this!
My 20 month old filly has always been easy, good to handle, lead, tie up etc, literally an angel with everything. Recently she has become a little monkey though! Went to pick up her back feet the other day and she was kicking out and messing around. (Continued picking her back feet up a few times everyday and she soon stopped it though.) She was also planting her feet whilst going back out to the field today and just generally making a fuss whilst tied up on the yard even though there was nothing obvious upsetting her! Apart from those 3 things she's her normal self.

So not much advice I'm afraid but just wanted to say you're not alone :)
 
Hello, Been here, and got the t shirt as it were. I acquired a Grand Breton..young boy...but a heavy horse..dragged me everywhere. Tried the bridle and bit, but felt I was just depending on a level of pain to get some manners. Anyway, through a friend was introduced to Intelligent Horsemanship and the Dually Headcollar..a Monty Roberts invention. This is a control headcollar, is mild but strong enough to make your point. Then I had some help from an IH trained person. His name is Gary Bosworth but as I live in North Nottinghamshire it may not help you. Anyway upshot is, my young boy is now a mamouth heavy horse, and I'd rather lead him out for a walk than our German Shepherd. In fact I do. If we go out, I make my husband lead the dog and I take the enormous horse. I suggest you look on the Intelligent Horsemanship web site, ring and try and locate someone trained by them close to where you live. Their methods are kind, clear and amazingly successful.

Good luck pm me if you need to talk further.[/LEFT]
 
trojanpony said:
Feathered, I've been where you are! I have to be honest in that I think a lot of the suggestions here (chains, leading from the bit, lunge line, follow another horse) are secondary solutions (and believe me, I've tried the lot!!) and not getting to the heart of the problem.

Be honest, in your relationship with your horse, who do you think is the boss at the moment?

I think you really need to work on being 'assertive' .
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Trojanpony I get where you are coming from. I can lead my heavyweight shire x in a bog standard headcollar because I am her leader and so she does what I want, hasn't always been that way mind! I remind myself of what a hellbeast she was to give me some faith that i'll get there with this pony.
She's huge and I'm not yet she always does what I ask, so I should be able to lead a 13.1 cob in a headcollar with no probs. But I guess the crux of the problem is, I'm not his boss, if he doesn't fancy walking nicely he's not going to do it just because I ask. If I was "pack leader" he would do as I said.

Long term, I know this is what I have to work on.
 
My now 2yo and i had boundary issues and arguments as to who was boss! as a 6month old he used to drag me all over the place! But as soon as i started standing up for myself he quickly turned a corner. For yours, id suggest setting some boundaries, start by getting him to move right to the back of the stable when you enter it, if he moves forward, put him right back straight away. If he challenges you, you need to become bigger, more dominant and scarier! Square up to him until hes licking and chewing with his head lowered and not looking at you. Only then attempt to take him out of the box. I would then suggest using a chain under his chin and at the slightest inkling that hes going to mess around, give him a short sharp check with that chain! He needs to learn that YOU are the boss.
Good luck and i hope you get things sorted soon :)
x
 
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