Need some advice before we give up on him.

Jojo_Pea4

Jojo_Pea4

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Brought our 14.2 Connie at 4 turning 5. he was brought to bring on to do sj/eventing.

He has just turned 6 and is getting worse not better. We have constantly had battles with him and he is stubborn. He doesnt ride from the leg at and shots off.

His jumping is becoming dangerous and is running into fences. He is strong and runs through your hands on the flat. He has a flat lesson a week and goes better but when no instructor he takes the mickey. Hacking he is a saint. We have tried different bits, now thinking a hackmore might be worth a try as dentist said he has a small tight mouth but his teeth had nothing wrong. Got back lady and saddler next week.

Sorry long, biccys to anyone who got this far
 
Could send him to a pro eventer for a week or two, and see what they reckon? If you're Norfolk way, I can recommend someone who was super for Al's mare who went completely batty in January... Just having someone with considerably more experience and skill being able to sit on your horse every day and remind them on 'proper' behavior was very helpful, and she then taught Al how to manage better too.
 
This was a thought we did have a think of sending his off to be restarted but didnt think that an pro eventer could be a better option. We are based herts/essex border way. Its hard because he is not dangerous but he is not working well. We are having our instructor ride him on the flat and having to give up jumping till he calms down and settles so just doing pole work.
 
The description sounds to me like a horse who has been in pain and may not be any longer but he has the memory - whether it is physiological pain or has been treated harshly in the past. I would go right back to basics with him - starting with walk and only moving on when he has got the hang of it. Don't even trot in the school until her responds quickly and lghtly to your legs and hands - halts, circles turns. Then rebuild it all in tro when he has got it. Patience is what you need, patience and looking at things from his point of view.
If he is okay when the instructor is there but not without, then you maybe need to look at whether you have got bad riding habits that creep back in when youa ren't having a lesson.
 
He's still very young and immature, I'd concentrate on having fun hacking as you say he goes well and leave the jumping etc for now. You could try him bitless but please go slow and train him to give to the slightest pressure, a rope halter is a good starting point in an enclosed area, the matrix bridle has options of cross under or side pull to see which best suits.

Hope it works out and it is just simply taking things a bit slower, some horses take longer to mature.
 
Jojo_Pea4 said:
He has a flat lesson a week and goes better but when no instructor he takes the mickey.
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then he is being ridden differently when the instructor is there to when the instructor is not, in which case the rider needs to take a look at what they are doing differently and address it.

why not stick with flat work when the instructor is there (once or twice a week) and hack the rest of the time, do this for 3-4 months and see what happens-if thats not an option the look at sending him away.

i can give you the number of someone in essex that has got my mare going, PM me if you would like it
 
Jojo_Pea4 said:
Brought our 14.2 Connie at 4 turning 5. he was brought to bring on to do sj/eventing.

He has just turned 6 and is getting worse not better. We have constantly had battles with him and he is stubborn. He doesnt ride from the leg at and shots off.

His jumping is becoming dangerous and is running into fences. He is strong and runs through your hands on the flat. He has a flat lesson a week and goes better but when no instructor he takes the mickey. Hacking he is a saint. We have tried different bits, now thinking a hackmore might be worth a try as dentist said he has a small tight mouth but his teeth had nothing wrong. Got back lady and saddler next week.

Sorry long, biccys to anyone who got this far
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Sounds like he can't jump for some reason.

Could be ulcers or a body problem.

I'd start with the vet.
 
GeorgeyGal said:
He's still very young and immature, I'd concentrate on having fun hacking as you say he goes well and leave the jumping etc for now.
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That.

Maybe he just doesn't enjoy the things you want to do?

Is it not better to sell him to a hacking home where he can do what he's capable of and enjoys and you can find something more suited to what you want to do?
 
Please read Jill's post again. Very good advice here. Problem is in our own minds we don't feel like this is enough, that it will solve anything, and or our plans get screwed up. It's also a fine line between the perception of being a bunny hugger vs real competitor.

My own now 7 yo mare had some issues. After several vet exams and loads of rads showing nothing., I decided that I would never compete her again. So with that in mind I've done things completely different and she is now going better than ever. I'm still vowing to never jump in comps again so I don't screw it up. I gave her the winter off and am doing straight line work to build up. I'm trying some in hand stuff too. Taking the pressure off can sometimes be a solution.

Hackamore can be helpful but if you want to event he will need a bit too. Try very thin mouth pieces. My big warmblood mare has a low flat pallet and beefy tongue. She is happy in a hackamore and thin bits and even mullen mouths. But we don't have to worry about dressage legal. Shame. Her brother is a pretty decent dressage horse.

Terri
 
i would suggest keeping your lessons going, and keep hacking out if that is something he enjoys and is good at. i would also try lunging and long reining, to really get him listening to you and respecting you more,(you could try lunging with a pessoa type aid which will help him build muscle and carry himself in a correct way, which could help your jumping if he is rushing because he is unbalanced as he is a young horse,(by getting him listening to you more and respecting you more means he is a lot less likely to try it on! you could then start loose jumping him or jumping him on a lunge line to check he is happy jumping without a rider. If he is then why not have a jumping lesson with your instructor? when jumping him i would do lots of grid work as it can encourage a horse to slow down and think what there legs are doing (he will not be able to charge down a grid successfully)!, i dont think a stronger bit is the answer here , hope this helps :)
 
Perhaps he just doesn't enjoy it if it's not pain related. Sometimes horses don't always do the job we intended for them and a different job will suit him better.
 
Thanks for all your replies.

His problem is he is so talented, is a real work horse loves doing something and hates being off work.

Clippy- he would get bored in a hack only home he loves being ridden just finds some of the work hard. We hack him loads and has plenty of time to let his hair done and relax.

We are going to get the vet out to check him over and we are thinking of giving him a month off to chill in the field.
 
Jojo_Pea4 said:
This was a thought we did have a think of sending his off to be restarted but didnt think that an pro eventer could be a better option.
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Why did you not think a professional would be a better option? You've already said he's better in lessons but take the instructor away and he's worse again, this to me suggests its down to the rider. First off though, I assume you've had everything checked (back/saddle/teeth etc.)? Might even be worth getting a second opinion on these things (I had a pro fit a saddle to one of mine, he went really weird when ridden and it turned out it didnt / couldnt possibly fit at all, changed saddle and he was brilliant again. So dont trust all pro's!).

He's still young, do you think he could have been overjumped? Obviously there are big problems here so you might be hammering him with flatwork and jumping to try to sort it when actually it might be better to calm down with it and try to make it fun again. How often for example do you jump him (how many times a week)? You say he finds some work hard, so take it right back each time so only move onto the next thing when he finds it easy.
 
He is young and confused - maybe all he needs is clarity on what is being asked of him. How good is your pressure and release for example - if you ask for a downward transition do you release the instant you have got it? And leave your leg off if he is going forward? Older horses can call on experience to cope with mixed messages but youngsters can't, which is why riding on a green youngster is a skill all of its own. If a horse understands what you are asking and is physically able to do it, he will, you just have to make the question clearer and maybe a little quieter.
To go back to my earlier post, I remember Mark Rashid once saying it took 18 months to get one horse good in walk before he moved on.
 
Thanks guys. Yes he was over jumped to big when we brought him so didnt jump till this year and started slowly building it up. He wouldnt even trot over poles when we got him as obviously never been used in his training and used to jump the lot so started with walking over a pole on the floor, and slowly built this up over the summer last year then the same with jumping. He was happily jumping courses and grids at 75-80cm then in the last few weeks getting over excited and running into them.

He isnt my horse, i hack him but not clear enough to give him the aids in the school. His rider is only young which is where she finds him strong but is a very quiet clear rider. He was going very well but suddenly when the jumping got strong he also went a bit backwards in the flat but this isnt all the time he has good days where he'll do everything calm and relaxed.

He works 6days a week, 3days hacking, 2schooling and one lunging in a peasoa. And jumps once every two weeks, when he was conpeting it was once a week.

We have lots of fun with him, the rider is young so does a bit of everything with him, mounted games, bare back, long reining round the farmers fields, we took them out last week and played in a stream (he loves water).

Its difficult to explain the sudden changes in the ponies way of going as he is not constantly difficult. If the sun is shining and its warm he can go out and work beautifully.
 
We have a physio out on thursday then will have vet if nothing shows up. I was asking for advice as thursday seems a long way away to get some answers.
 
Good advice on here and I would also add that at 6 he is still a baby. My 6 year old is not always consistent with how he reacts and I expect that. When a horse starts to behave very differently, you do need to get the basic pain checks ruled out, then go back a couple of steps to a place he or she is comfortable and build again. I, through ignorance as I took a previous instructors word as gospel ruined both mine and another young horses confidence. The instructor pushed us on very fast (think schooling over BE novice fences in your second XC session) as horse and I were gung ho. Result, horse and rider overfaced in another session and we had to go right back to basics to rebuild.
 
After back, saddle, teeth check, I would look at feed. Our ginger 14.2 mare is very sensitive to feed and being in a field of clover last summer sent her over the edge and she had real issues with her jumping too. We started feeding her fast fibre as the hifi lite she had has molasses in, feeding her 2 table spoons of salt, magnesium and a special supplement lady from Calm Healthy Horses in New Zealand sent be to rebalance the high potassium levels that clover has. It literally transformed a very erratic, temperamental pony within a few weeks. A new instructor also recommended changing her bit from a roller snaffle to a Hilary Vernon Mullen bit which stopped the chomping and tension in mouth.
 
Honestly after reading through all of this, someone hit the nail on the head right at the very beginning.

When your instruct is there he is GOOD and when not he takes the MICK!!!!!

you can not beat experience and i see so many young horses go wrong because of this, you either need more regular instruction if you are determined to deal with this yourself. and slow down stop jumping hack and gentle schooling if he cant behave on the flat you have no hope at a fence.

or if you have the finances send him off for a little while and let him be taught the basics, it doesnt need to be a professional eventer it just needs to be 1 someone you trust and can work with. 2 has the experiance of dealing with young horses

you backed him late which means he is much stronger and more aware of things than a 3 yr old and it generally takes longer
 
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