Need some advice on schooling/biting

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Kelly1982

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Right i need some advise on what to do with my 4yo!!

I was riding her in a snaffle but once she started getting fitter and stronger this was becoming increasingly difficult, especially when jumping. She wasn't strong in her flatwork she was just taking the complete p*ss!! She knows she can evade the snaffle so does and we was having 45min battles just in walk.

I changed her to a pelham for jumping coz i was fed up with the constant battles and the difference was amazing even in her flat work!!! She was so much more collected, light in the hands, was listening to me, just a completly different horse. I wasn't even having to use the bit coz as she respected it so much more she was listening to my seat like she is meant to be.

Well last night a tried her in the snaffle again as i dont really want to keep riding in the pelham with her being a baby. She was a nightmare again!!! She wont listen to anything i ask of her, her legs are all over the place, we was going up the banks of the school coz she wouldn't listen to me asking her to turn. I asked her for a flying change (we're working on the at the mo) and coz she anticipated it she p*ssed off down the school and i couldn't stop her for half of it. She also saw some trotting poles and p*ssed off again and jumped the whole lot!!!

What do i do???? I dont want to keep riding her in the pelham as she is only 4yo but i cant school her properly in the snaffle as she just evades me?? If i cant even do simple flat work in it then i am certainly not going to be able to jump in it.

She also seems a lot more relaxed in the snaffle but i think thats coz she knows she can do what she wants.

I am desperatly trying to get a lesson with my instructor but that seems to be falling on deaths ear (if thats the right saying) at the moment so i cant see me getting one until at least Feb.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to what i could try?? shall i just keep riding her in the pelham or persist with the snaffle??
 
i personally would put her back in the pelham until she learns to respect you more. do lots and lots of transitions with her in it so you get her listening to your leg and seat for them and not for your hands. when shes established in listening to your seat aids then change back to the snaffle and see how it goes.

what are you feeding her out of interest?
 
Well, a snaffle to a pelham is a little bit of a quantum leap in terms of adding control
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Why don't you try her in something slightly stronger than the snaffle.

I too had problems with Bo p155ing off when we first got him. His standard evasion was to lean on the bit and pull me out of the saddle. I upped the braking in various different ways, and even ended up in a rubber pelham too. It had the same effect on Bo that you describe with Senza, but effectively was bringing him behind the bit
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I have now pretty much sorted things out, with a combination of 'firm' schooling, and a slightly stronger bit than the snaffle. He goes in a D-ring copper roller for jumping, and will go quite happily in a loose ring french link snaffle on the flat. Every now and again he will 'forget' to listen and we will have a quick 'reminder' of how he is expected to behave...a couple of firm pull-ups usually does the trick, but on the whole we now respect each other and are working pretty happily as a team
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Thats the thing in the pelham she DOES listen to my seat aids, she is a complete pro in the pelham, we still have a bit of trouble with jumping as she rushes her fences (think thats more me than her though) but thats it. Think i definatly need to do more transistions though but she does walk to canter and stand to canter etc perfectly and i thought that was pretty good considering she is only 4yo.

She is fed on 4 handfuls of alpha-a oil, 3 small scoops of speedi beat and 1.5 big round scoops of soaked oats a day spilt between 2 feeds so nothing heating in there.
 
hmmmmm then im inclined to say go for somthing milder than a pelham and see how she goes in that and gradually reduce it back down to a snaffle if you see what i mean......
 
Hi ya

Yeah it was a bit of a jump as thats the only other bit we had down the yard (apart from a dutch gag) and i didn't want to go buying bits if they didn't work. Plus my instructor said she had a few i could try and i haven't been able to get a lesson with her since!!!

I have tried her in a loose ring french link and she is just the same if not worse so my instructor told me to take her out of that completly.

She knows what she is supposed to be doing as if i give her a boot she starts to listen for half the school and then plays up again. Its just battle after battle in the snaffle and we end up getting no schooling done and she comes out the school laughing coz she has got away with it.

She is not behind the bit in the pelham and doesn't lean on it either like my instructor warned she might and is actually really light in the hand. Here is a pic:

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I am all up for trying another bit but what
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Yeah i see what you mean but what bits would you suggest??

All my horses have only ever been in snaffles so i am a bit clueless as to what to try
 
What sort of snaffle are you using with her? I had a similar problem with my 4yo, but TBH most of it was down to unbalance, and the stronger bit just "made" him think and work more, but wasnt necessarily the right thing for continual use. I would try the same mouthpiece you have in the pelham witha full cheek, and make her listen to you. Loads of transitions, lots of turning, if she ignores you, make her turn tighter until she listens! Its just a case of being firm with her, she will get it and work out that life is alot easier if she does as she is told! It will feel like a big leapbackwards, but slowly she will learn to use herself to work instead or relying on your hands to balance.
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Hope that makes sense!??
 
Well, we tried the 3-ring gag too....it had an effect for a while, but it was never quite right. The copper roller did the trick for Bo, but as I say, he was a leaner as much as anything.

Whatever you do with her, I think you need to be prepared to change again later. Stronger bits have their uses in small doses, but don't expect one bit to do the job forever. Horses are clever bu99ers and soon learn how to work their way round the latest 'kit' lol!

I think you have to accept that 50% of what she is doing is down to her age, and the fact she is testing you out, the other 50% is probably down to her not knowing any better. If she is respecting the pelham, then why not try the gag ? It may be the poll action that is controlling her, it may not
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I know they come with a stigma, but in my opinion getting the horse right is more important than what other people think
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When she bu99ers off with you, what does she do, and how does she do it ?
 
a french link rugby pelham? You have the thicker rein off the 'snaffle' part of it and then use a thinner 'curb' rein from the curb part. Then when she is being 'naughty' you cna remind her with the curb rein but the rest of the time just keep it loose and ride from the snaffle rein. i use one of these to hack bloss out in and for hunting her. it works really well.

French Link Rugby Pelham
 
Yeah that does make sense, thank you
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She was ridden in a loose ring fulmer when i first got her so maybe i should try that again
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My instructor said to try something with a thick mouth piece on her as the french link was quite thin.

I know this is very mild but do you think a straight bar rubber snaffle would be any good. Its a straight bar like the pelham, its rubber so not harsh and its thick like my instructor suggested, or do you think that would be too mild??

I am useless with bits!!
 
Well I went back to a nathe and actually found him better in it because there was nothing to fight! He is now always in a neue schule tranz link. Personally dont like thick mouthpieces as they can make a horse uncomfortable in their mouths. That is JMO though!!
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Yeah i know eactly what you are saying that i will have to change again, i am prepared for that, i just didn't think it would be at such an early age
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My intention was to only use the pelham for jumping until she stopped rushing the fences with me which has worked well to a certain extent but then it just seems to make things worse when i got back to the snaffle if you know what i mean.

When she tanks she shoves her head in the air as far as she can, locks her neck and just goes. The more you pull back the further she sticks her head out and if you just try to use your seat she doesn't stop and keeps going.

I did do lots of transistion with her a while ago as whenever i asked for a downward transistion she would stick her neck out and keep going and we managed to suss it to a certain extend and she realised she couldn't do it anymore but we are back to doing it again.
 
First thing I would do is to take the roundings off and school her wth 2 reins, you can then be far more refined with what is going on in her mouth/head and start using less and less curb rein until you are ridng solely of the top ren - could be she does not like the link you had on the snaffle and would be happier with something that is straighter or wraps, like a Myler snaffle?
 
Why dont you put 2 reins on the pelham? Just ride off the snaffle rein unless you need a little reminder with the curb. That way you have a similar action to a hanging cheek, but have extra brakes if necessary.
 
Well, if she's evading you by putting her head in the air, then it's probably the poll pressure of the pelham that's helping. In that case you could try the gag, or a baucher/hanging cheek snaffle, or even a fulmer snaffle with keepers. They all give varying degrees of poll pressure
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Cool!!! I think my friend has got one that i might be able to borrow and i am also watching one on good old ebay
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I am also watching a loose ring fulmer just in case as she was in one of those when i first got her so could be worth a try.
 
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Cool!!! I think my friend has got one that i might be able to borrow and i am also watching one on good old ebay
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To be honest, they're so cheap (about £10) anyway, it's doubtful that you'd save much by buying on ebay once you've taken postage into account
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I tried one (a straight bar happy mouth) on Trike....he hated it lol! You can have it if you want it !? If you're going to GC next weekend i'll drop it over to you then !?
 
I might look into the hanging cheek snaffle instead of the fulmer now you have said that coz that does make sense. She doesn't even try to put her head up or snatch in the pelham.

Will see if i can borrow the rubber snaffle to see if that works and if it doesn't then look into getting a hanging cheek.
 
I'm not at GC next week
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Dont think we will be out again until Feb as Lux is recovering from lameness and Vicky wont take just one horse out.

The one i am watching on ebay is only 99p at the mo with no bidders (probably will be now i have said that ha ha) so i will see how high that goes and if not then i may be on your case
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I'm not at GC next week
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Dont think we will be out again until Feb as Lux is recovering from lameness and Vicky wont take just one horse out.

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Haha....Well, if she takes you, then that'll be two horses eh
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It's a shame if you do miss it as it's the Blue Chip Elevator Discovery qualifier....
 
From the way you say she evades the snaffle bit I would think its possibly the nutcracker action of the snaffle that she doesn't like.I agree with trying something that has a straight mouthpiece and also that a thicker bit as it would be less harsh than a thin mouthpiece. The fact that she chucks her head up to avoid the bit would make me think about trying her in a martingale if you don't already use one though as this will help you retain a degree of control.
 
LOL as if i will qualify anyway with the way she has been knocking poles left right and centre
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I just spoke to Vicky and she is going Limes farm the following weekend (which i am gonna give a miss) but we will be going Mustead Grange (i think
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) on the 28th.

I would like to jump the qualifier but my main aim is to get her clear at the mo.
 
Why not try her in a Dr Bristol?? Most horses tbh go very well in a bit with a curb chain - but all of it is usually 'false' if you get my meaning. Can't really comment on the pro's and cons of using which bit - I think you have to do what works best for you. But at four she will test you, test you and test you some more - at five or maybe six it will all go click and your current problems will be a distant memory.

I know I say this an awful lot - but maybe it's either time for her to have a break or to do something other than schooling etc. They quite often need a break at this age - and it can work wonders.

Certainly a pelham or anything really classed as a 'strong' bit is not the way I would go - and I don't think you'll do yourself any favours in the long run if you continue with its use. She is such a lovely looking mare, and you ride her beautifully. I just think you have to accept that for every step forward you may well take several back at this stage.
 
Hi ya Spike

Yeah she is in a martigale which does help to some degree but she just sticks her head out even further!!

Definatly going to try the rubber snaffle first and then the hanging cheek.

My friend also has a Myler that i might try tonight until i can get the rubber snaffle as thats a straight bar too.
 
DOnt like martingales either personally! The less they have to fight against the better...... but they sometimes can be a necessity!!
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I use a myler with hooks for G for faster work, the more direct action seems to work really well for him as it is a clear pressure and release signal!!
 
hi - Weezy got it right by suggesting to take the roundings off, and once she is OK with just the top rein (not curb rein) you can then use a straight bar. Buckinghorse's horse is in somehting similar too.

and it's Medstead Grange and i can nip down and watch - if it's the 28th Jan then it's the day after my b'day - .....

Bx
 
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Certainly a pelham or anything really classed as a 'strong' bit is not the way I would go - and I don't think you'll do yourself any favours in the long run if you continue with its use.

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Thats exactly how i feel so thats why i want to try something milder but with a different action or mouth piece to see if she is happier in that.

I know what you mean about it feeling 'false' as well, when she does work in the snaffle she seems to work a lot harder than in the pelham if that makes sense. Thats probaby half the reason she evades me. Her neck has also become a lot weaker but i'm not sure if that has to do with her dropping a bit of weight recently.

Her last comp was the 2nd December and since then she has only been ridden a few times a week (3 max) and that has just been gentle hacking. She has also had a week off here and there too (had a whole week last week) so its not like she has been in constant schooling for the past 2 months but i understand that she hasn't had a complete break.

It was my first proper schooling session last night so i can appreciate her being a bit naughty so it didn't bother me too much but i was experiencing the same problems as i was before so its obvious that something is going wrong somewhere along the lines and thats also why i want to try some new bits.

Thank you for your lovely commenst by the way
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and it's Medstead Grange and i can nip down and watch - if it's the 28th Jan then it's the day after my b'day - .....


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PMSL you know what i mean
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Yeah come and watch, but your not allowed to laugh at me!!!
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I'm pretty sure it is the 28th so if we do go out for your b-day i will have to drive home that night
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