Need some sharer adivce...(long)

Tiarella

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*sorry for spelling mistake in title.

Hey :) I've had my sharers now for a month and a half, November was a trial period and we are now nearly at the end of December. All going super well, mother and child very happy with him, he has won everything for the child so far and they really get on well. They are novice to a point but can handle and ride him well and correctly. They had been using their flexee tree saddle on him which I thought from day one never looked right, tipping forward far too much and just not sitting right. Their instructor (nothing to do with me) altered it and put the panels that close together there was a 1cm gap. My saddle fitter came the week after had heart failure at the saddle and how it just is never going to be suitable for his round shape and told me not to use it on him. I have now bought a new saddle that is custom fitted to him so should have no further problems with my saddle or not being able to use theirs. They are not happy with this and insisted my very expensive brand new saddle would not be suitable for him and reeled off excuse after excuse. I have now put my foot down and said I am more than happy for you to get this dressage flexee saddle fitted to him by heather moffett herself but until then I dont want it on his back with the panels that close. created a hoo harr saying "my daughter needs to ride in a dressage saddle as its good for her position, its the only saddle he goes nicely in."(which isnt true! I've never had an issue) But i'm going with my own gut instinct and what a professional saddle fitter thinks, and its not "just because saddle fitters dont like them saddles."

On saturday apparently he was bucking, which isnt like him at all. They blamed my old saddle (bought new one yday) which did fit him fine but I was looking at getting a new one anyway. I then politely told the mum that I think its actually the horse/instructor combination that wasnt working, he is a very typical native, has a heart of gold but you have to work as a team, you can no way 'tell' him what to do, he will just tell you to do one and that is usually when he starts bucking out of temper and frustration. I have an international dr rider school him once a week to keep all the buttons there and make sure he is bending and suppling well and never ever had a problem with her schooling him or teaching me on him, she is very very perfect for him and keeps him very sweet. This current instructor sharers have is very fierce and hard on the horses, which may work for some but certainly not for all so I suggested they could try someone else, but no, her daughter is happy with instructor, and then stated "well, im not being funny but he is only a horse."

Anyway, had a chat last night and basically she was dictating to me what I can/cant do with my pony, didnt realise that I would still be competing him myself and even riding him myself (no idea where she got that from), saying that she doesnt want the dr rider to school him(she schools him on a day I have him, and I should be able to do what ever I want with MY horse on My day!) as wants it all to be her daughters work (which also makes no sense as he is pretty established at elem level), they only wanted to ride him if they could use their saddle and have their instructor, and then proceeded to slag off his conformation, and how he is built downhill and "never worked over his back" - not sure how anyone can say that either when we do very well in dressage and very rarely get below 65% in nov/elem tests. They also said that dr rider is "far too big on him, she looks ridiculous!" - she is about 5ft7 on a 14hh pony but she only weighs 8 1/2 stone!!

The only reason i'm not telling them the sling their hook is because they do pay me a lot of money for him (half of what he costs a month) and the daughter does ride him lovely and they do look after him well. If it was just the daughter involved without the 'pony club mother' it would all be perfect.

Dont currently have a contract but if they want to proceed with the share then I will be writing one asap!
 
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Pearlsasinger

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Until I understood the financial aspect, I was thinking, 'If you think so little of him, you'd better find a different horse' but if you want to keep the contribution, I think you need to get a contract in place PDQ. Do you not think you could find a different sharer? I can see the contract being a matter of controversy at this stage, it's a pity you didn't get it sorted at least for the end of the trial period. I think you will need to be very firm with the mother.
 

Booboos

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It seems sensible to do a contract asap anyway, but in this case it may help clarify what each person's expectations and responsibilities are, e.g. you could speculate that he must be ridden in your saddle and lessons only with x person, etc.

I suspect that since you didn't set out these rules from the beginning it may be more contentious to do this now. Why not decide on the things that are non-negotiable and stick to those accepting that you may lose your sharer if you can't come to an agreement.

As for the saddle to be honest if a pony that did not buck, bucked with a new saddle I would suspect the new saddle. The treeless is supposed to sit with the panels close to the withers and back (nothing like a treed saddle) and if your saddle is not trained in fitting treeless saddles I would be a bit weary about her views on its fit. However he's your pony and you are entitled to ask the sharer to ride him in any saddle you want.
 

Janah

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Get rid, your pony, not theirs.

I am sure you will find another sharer quickly who will follow your guidance.
 

Jinx94

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It doesn't sounds like the mother understands the concept of a share tbh :/ personally, I'd draw up a contract and go through everything with them and make sure that there are clear boundaries. If she has issues with that, I would be looking for another sharer.
 

Serephin

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Blimey. I would tell her to do one. What a cheeky cow, and thats being diplomatic! Money isn 't everything and I wouldn't want someone else telling me what to do with MY horse! Where do these people get off??! Its amazing really.
 

sarahann1

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Hmmm, I can see your point of view re the money. I think I'd be inclined to go over your origional agreement with them again (assuming you have one?), remind them this is a share NOT a loan. Give it another month tops, and if it doesn't improve tell them to hop it.

He's still your horse, regardless what they pay you should have the final say on anything and they should respect that.

Edit- Just seen you don't have an agreement, get one written PDQ.
 

TequilaMist

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It doesn't sounds like the mother understands the concept of a share tbh :/ personally, I'd draw up a contract and go through everything with them and make sure that there are clear boundaries. If she has issues with that, I would be looking for another sharer.

This and make it clear you mean whats agreed and write it in if not they don't do whats agreed then share can be cancelled immediately
or the preferred option
If the financial contribution isn't that important to you would stop it immediately no ifs or buts . Sounds quite a demanding mother which will probably never get better.
 

Tiarella

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I have made it difficult on my behalf by not having a contract set in place to begin with. I am all for them using their dressage saddle but I want to know it has been fitted to him correctly by the person that makes the saddles. He has never bucked in a saddle before and does get an attitude when being forced (pinned down by hands etc) to do things when there is another way round them.

Would it be best to write a contract give it to them and if they strop tell them to do one? - politely.

Its such a shame, the child loves him to peices and theyre wonderful together but when the instructor gets involved and the mum its a disaster.
 

PleaseVenus

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I'm sure you'll find another sharer who pays a contribution. It sounds like she pays half, not all, yet expects him to be treated like her own! He's your horse and you should have the final say on everything, especially tack and who can ride him/not. If they are being this difficult early on then they might just get worse and worse. They sound so annoying! You should be telling them, not the other way around, what a cheek.
 

Gloi

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Get rid and find a different sharer and this time use the experience you have just gained to lay down ground rules from day one. Make sure you can specify that you have the final decision what tack and instructors are used.
 

Tiarella

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I am struggling financially with him to be honest, and I do want a lot of money for him, but at the same time he is trained to elem, won everything so far with the child, and will easily do byrds/BD etc so is a true competition pony. He is also a bombproof hack and jumps whatever for fun...I do the hacking a jumping as they arent interested in that. Or should I say the mother isnt interested in that...the daughter would love to jump him!
 

Red-1

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Oh gosh!!!! I have had sharers, it can work really well. BUT we had a contract, or I think we called it a written agreement, which we both contributed to and stuck with. Sharing was great, a shared adventure. My sharer was less experienced, but it became a delight to come to my day and find my tack clean and grooming kit spotless, and horse happy. It really can be like that.
My sharer had lessons, could compete, go galloping, jumping whatever she wanted, but it was all within a framework.

I would suggest this is the perfect time to put an agreement in place, I think I would tackle it as in "silly me, I have been negligent not to have an agreement as I would hate you not to understand what you had committed to, there has been some confusion and it is all my fault".

TBH I have gone to so much trouble to get my horse a good fitting saddle I would not allow another saddle unless it had been fitted properly by someone specialising in that type of saddle.

I would include what they can and cannot do, and what I can and cannot do.
I would include a notice period, and the fact that no notice need be given in some circumstances (danger, or risk of damage to my horse). We even included how often the horse was shod, how long the horse could be ridden, who else could ride.

I would be quite prescriptive as to the ethos to which my horse is trained. Aggressive instructors would not figure.

TBH the initial written agreement took AGES, but then both "shares" I had afterwards were trouble free. I was invited to meet the instructor, we shared each other's victories.

If the share is not working for you then it is not working. Your horse is supposed to be your pleasure, arguing is not pleasurable. We even wrote something into our agreement to the effect that the horse was mine, and all final decisions were mine, and if my decisions did not suit then the sharer was free to leave.

By the sound of your horse then there would be many sharers keen to share a elem. dressage horse where they could compete and have lessons.

The whole pleasure of having your own horse is being able to make your own decisions. I guess you now have the pleasure of making one of those decisions as to what you would like to happen next, what you will and will not compromise on.

Good luck!!!
 
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Caol Ila

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I'd feel sorry for the kid too (mom is probably just as overbearing in other aspects of her life) but at the end of the day, it's mom and instructor you have to deal with and if they are driving you crazy, cutting it short is probably the only way to go. I'd be raging if a sharer was telling me what I could and could not do with my horse.
 

Tiarella

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I feel sorry for her too....the way she talks about her is rather shocking. Also the whole attitude to " I want her to do well, and wont be happy if she doesnt" etc etc. To make matters worse, the child doesnt even like riding - or I certainly get that impression!!
 

rowan666

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Tell her if she dosnt want you to ride your own pony then she can have him on full loan/lease?
I would not be letting her dictate and intimidate you over a pony you own!
I do feel for you though OP, its sooo hard to find a decent sharer at the min! :(
 

Caol Ila

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Ugh. Mom is no doubt living vicariously through her daughter and piling her own insecurities and dreams and frustrations onto the poor kid. That sucks. Won't be good for horsey, either. I know I wouldn't want a family with that kind of dynamic leasing my horse. My Dad and brother both have coached kids' soccer, where you see the same thing, and they have horror stories about being in the middle of that sort of stuff.
 

Tiarella

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Would everyone suggest I do an agreement first and then see what they say, or just tell them I dont want them to share him anymore? Its such a shame and I dont actually understand why the mum thinks "It just wont work." It works perfectly. We do 3 days each, and he has one day off. On my days I hack twice and take him to dr trainer and on their days they have a lesson, school once and hack the other. The only thing that doesn't work in their instructor of choice because you really can not tell a native what to do, and I dont want them to use their saddle until the have had it properly fitted. I dont think either of them things are unfair?


Haha, funny you should say that caol ila - their son and dad are them exact coaching/soccer people!
 

Slightly Foxed

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Ugh. Mom is no doubt living vicariously through her daughter and piling her own insecurities and dreams and frustrations onto the poor kid. That sucks. Won't be good for horsey, either. I know I wouldn't want a family with that kind of dynamic leasing my horse. My Dad and brother both have coached kids' soccer, where you see the same thing, and they have horror stories about being in the middle of that sort of stuff.

This exactly! You see some gawdawful parents in junior BS.
My brother coaches kids' rugby and the parents are a nightmare, some have to be physically restrained at times!
 

webble

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As for the saddle to be honest if a pony that did not buck, bucked with a new saddle I would suspect the new saddle. The treeless is supposed to sit with the panels close to the withers and back (nothing like a treed saddle) and if your saddle is not trained in fitting treeless saddles I would be a bit weary about her views on its fit. However he's your pony and you are entitled to ask the sharer to ride him in any saddle you want.
This they are fantastic saddles if it is moving forward it may need a shim pad
 

Tiarella

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This they are fantastic saddles if it is moving forward it may need a shim pad

He has never bucked (unless hooning round a field with other horses) being schooled unless being really forced to do something so my old saddle was not the issue.

I am more than happy for them to use it on him, but I want it properly fitted - that isnt too much to ask surely?
 

zaminda

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I would be putting a contract in place stating that they can use the saddle when it has been correctly fitted by someone who fits these saddles, maybe even ring manufacturer for a recommendation. I would also be making clear that it is just a share, and that they do not have free rein over the pony, and that if issues continue with instructor, that they will need to find another. I would think through BYRDS you ay find another suitable sharer, but that aside they need to be reminded, in a relatively tactful manner, that he is your pony!
 

Tinypony

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Would everyone suggest I do an agreement first and then see what they say, or just tell them I dont want them to share him anymore? Its such a shame and I dont actually understand why the mum thinks "It just wont work." It works perfectly. We do 3 days each, and he has one day off. On my days I hack twice and take him to dr trainer and on their days they have a lesson, school once and hack the other. The only thing that doesn't work in their instructor of choice because you really can not tell a native what to do, and I dont want them to use their saddle until the have had it properly fitted. I dont think either of them things are unfair?


Haha, funny you should say that caol ila - their son and dad are them exact coaching/soccer people!

Several times you've mentioned that you don't like the way their instructor has him ridden, and the way they ride him. You mentioned fixed hands at some point didn't you? That would bother me more than anything to be honest. I wouldn't have any of mine ridden harshly.
 

Tiarella

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Several times you've mentioned that you don't like the way their instructor has him ridden, and the way they ride him. You mentioned fixed hands at some point didn't you? That would bother me more than anything to be honest. I wouldn't have any of mine ridden harshly.

The child is a a very good rider and rides him very sympathetically unless the instructor or mother get involved. It does bother me a lot. If it was the child and the dr trainer that rides him together they'd be competing higher levels in no time!
 

rowan666

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Maybe if you approach the mum and say how amazing her daughter is at riding and shes far more talented than their instructor gives her credit for, blah blah, really flatter her ego!! Suggest how far daughter could go if only she wasnt being held back and she had an instructor like yours!
 

smellsofhorse

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I think you need to have another talk and be clear on what you want and what they want in the agreement.

It may just not work, if you both want different things.

It shouldn't be about money, dont keep them just because they pay a good contribution.
They seem to want all the say but not all the responsibility of a horse.
 

sandi_84

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It sounds to me like the mother is a nightmare sharer. Unfortunately it seems that nightmare sharers get worse rather than better.

You are unhappy with how the instructor teaches, how the child rides when given lessons from this instructor, their reluctance to use a properly fitted saddle when theirs clearly doesn't fit (my suspicious mind wonders are they using their badly fitting saddle when you aren't around since it seems they really weren't happy with using your new one!), the stroppiness when telling you what you can and can't do with YOUR pony AND the slating of your ponies conformation and performance....

If it were me I'd get rid regardless of the financial contribution and try my hardest to find another sharer - I know it's difficult but it can be done.

I would say re-read your posts on this thread OP and if you really feel like you aren't sure about terminating the share do tell your sharers you are drawing up a contract to clarify the situation and at the very least get them to use an instructor who's methods you are happy with. Your pony is telling you and them in no uncertain terms that he is unhappy and that needs to be the priority as I'm sure you love him very much and would hate for him to continue like that :(

Best of luck OP, I really hope it all works out for you whatever you decide!
 
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