Need suggestions- new horse napping and sticking head to chest

charleysummer

charleysummer

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You may have seen my post about buying a new horse- including a video of him working nicely (not sure what happened to that!)

He has perked up a lot since hes been fed up and living out with his new friends- always been good to catch and a genuinely nice horse. I have been lunging him and he has done well- he does not work BTV on the lunge and will stretch out in to a nice outline. HOWEVER problems start when I get on - he naps towards the gate and will not stand still, he just naps to avoid standing still. Whilst walking he tends to be ok but is very jumping to leg contact (I knew this anyway I was just going to work on getting him to accept the leg, i knew full well he was green but knew nothing about any napping). He will speed up and pull against bit contact- if bit contact is taken then he does push his head in to the bit and trot forwards with his head in his chest, his walk to trot transition is quite extraordinary... He will lift his head, legs go everywhere then he settles in to a leany, head stuck to chest trot. He is not so bad when he is going forwards but if asked to stand then problems occur, He is not too bad in particular spots of the manege but especially near the top a pattern occurs- he will dance his front hooves, swing his hindquarters out then go sideways and try to tank forwards- he even leapt forwards today.. I got off him, stuck him on the lunge and got him circling past the manege gate without napping towards it, when I got back on he was much improved but then started up again- he will choose a direction to go and then get dead set on going, I fixed the opposite rein and made him go the other way and stand again for 5 seconds (long enough to stand without him trying to move again). I try not to close him in by blocking him in with rein contact- as I know this is just asking for him to go up which he has done by a tiny amount..

So yes- things are not going well! I did think that it must be back- the saddle obvious hurts him so as my mum wasn't around I got on bareback to walk round and see how he went- it was probably worse. Going to get his bloods run from the vetting. He is also very nervous and was producing sloppy poo- i've had him 2/3 weeks i think.. can't quite remember! But when trailled he was not BTV, didn't nap, was a lot calmer and didnt have explosive transitions.

:( sigh! I will get a video tomorrow if I can. Suggestions?
 
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Has he had his teeth looked at? Only ask a pony mare I knew did something of similar sorts due to bad teeth.
 
ChristmasSparkles said:
Has he had his teeth looked at? Only ask a pony mare I knew did something of similar sorts due to bad teeth.
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Having them done soon as my other mare's need doing, but he showed nothing like this behaviour in the trial- he is also now in the same bit he was trialled in, a mullen mouth rubber snaffle. Would have thought he would have behaved the same in trial if that was the case.

Thanks for the input :)
 
Beyond the vertical I'm guessing :)


OP - Hmm no idea then. Hope it all works out :( Only mentioned it as it was something the pony started doind, whereas previously was a perfect little happy hacker type :)
 
How is his back? if you run your hand along the back, pressing on the muscle, does he react? is there a bulge forming in front of your hand?
Nervous and sloppy poos could be ulcers and/or too much grass. If too much grass, he could be very uncomfy in his feet and have a sore back (that's what happens to my mare). If ulcers he could be girthy. Just throwing some ideas.

If his back his sore (from saddle or not), bareback might not show what's going on.
 
You should start by checking there is no pain and really you need the vet out for that.

If all is well physically, then ride him forward. Many nervous or worried horses get worse by being asked to stand, so don't ask him to stand for now. Send him forwards and keep your leg on - the hotter the horse the more he has to get used to the leg being on, the lazier the horse the more he has to get used to responding to small leg aids.

Do you have someone on the ground to help you? It's always best to get on a new horse with your instructor around so you can get some pointers in how to ride this particular horse.
 
Fauvea said:
How is his back? if you run your hand along the back, pressing on the muscle, does he react? is there a bulge forming in front of your hand?
Nervous and sloppy poos could be ulcers and/or too much grass. If too much grass, he could be very uncomfy in his feet and have a sore back (that's what happens to my mare). If ulcers he could be girthy. Just throwing some ideas.

If his back his sore (from saddle or not), bareback might not show what's going on.
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Thanks, I have done this yes and he dips his back near the middle- but so do the other horses I've done this to! hadn't noticed a bulge. Thanks, he has been slowly introduced to grass using a muzzle and is in a small paddock so shouldnt think he'd be on too much- have been bringing him in too . Any ideas are very helpful at the moment it is much appreciated and certainly will not rule out anything so it is on the possibles list while I try and pick apart the puzzle (so i know what route to go down first regarding physio etc)
 
Miss L Toe said:
BTV ?
What do the vendors say?
How many young horses have you ridden?
What does your instructor think?
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Behind the vertical :), the vendors said he had never napped/bucked/reared etc. The horse is not young, he is 8 but I have ridden young horses and 'problem' horses, having reschooled my own problem mare and others with bolting type behaviour, nerves and some napping, however have not dealt with this degree of evasive napping before. I have not used an instructor since I started my A levels as I was focusing more on those a bit more whilst keeping a hold on my horsey life , so I do not have any ongoing contact with one at the moment
 
]He has perked up a lot since hes been fed up and living out with his new friends
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could he be sensitive to something your feeding him ? if he wasnt behaving this badly before you bought him id look at something youve changed first (just a suggestion btw not a criticism)
 
Booboos said:
You should start by checking there is no pain and really you need the vet out for that.

If all is well physically, then ride him forward. Many nervous or worried horses get worse by being asked to stand, so don't ask him to stand for now. Send him forwards and keep your leg on - the hotter the horse the more he has to get used to the leg being on, the lazier the horse the more he has to get used to responding to small leg aids.

Do you have someone on the ground to help you? It's always best to get on a new horse with your instructor around so you can get some pointers in how to ride this particular horse.
Click to expand...

During the vetting the vet gave him a very good look which was not long ago as I have only just got him- having felt his back and teeth and giving him a very thorough lameness check. Yes he is very sensitive to the leg and anticipates transitions hence the explosive trot which has appeared. I currently have no one on the ground to help me out which does make difficult
 
Faracat said:
Your description really reminds me of horses that have been mostly ridden in draw reins.
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This was actually the first thing I thought when he started it having seen a horse behave similar after being tied in to their chest with draw reins. However still doesn't solve the mystery of why none of this showed up during the viewing etc
 
Fauvea said:
When running your hand flat along the back (I think it's on the longissimus dorsi) with some pressure, going from behind wither toward tail, the muscle will bulge out in front of your hand if the horse is sore, muscle will stay flat if not.
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I'd assumed you meant something like this, but I was not looking for it when I did it ! just to see if he had any reaction, very useful thing to know though thanks and I will see what happens tomorrow :)
 
Why has he been fed up? Was he particularly thin?
If you've only had him 2 or 3 weeks I wouldn't have expected your feeding to make much difference to him, weight-wise. If I were you I would cut his feed back down and see if his behaviour improves. If it does you will need to decide whether it was one particular ingredient which was upsetting him (the sloppy poos indicate this), or just the increased amount.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
Why has he been fed up? Was he particularly thin?
If you've only had him 2 or 3 weeks I wouldn't have expected your feeding to make much difference to him, weight-wise. If I were you I would cut his feed back down and see if his behaviour improves. If it does you will need to decide whether it was one particular ingredient which was upsetting him (the sloppy poos indicate this), or just the increased amount.
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He was very thin, and still is- Id put him on mollichaff condition with a bit of happy hoof (my mare has happy hoof and I'd planned to take off his back shoes so thought I may as well give him the nutrients). If I can get the napping better is there any way I can get his head out of his chest? I've tried releasing the contact (as much as I can without him acting silly) and trying to get him to relax his back but he will not do this while I am on his back, only on the lunge. One other thing is that when I viewed him he was ridden in a gag to 'bring his nose in...' he didnt actually bring his nose in that much when I viewed him! He is stoppable in his snaffle and I don't want to put a stronger bit in really but if it helps combat the problems is there a different bit I could use? or something with a head lifting action?

Another thing I realised I havent mentioned is that he protests to working left, he will do it if I get bossy and make him but he does not want to, and on the lunge he quite often attempts to turn himself round to work right! I noticed no difference in his way of going once he was working and flexes to both sides fine but only if he wants to.

if the weather holds out I'm going to get a video of it later
 
I would try long reining in twenty, down to fifteen metre circles to try to release the neck, and stiffness on one side, keep the level of the reins [height] adjusted and the contact light in order to keep him stretching and loosening. Also go back to basics with ground work, walking over poles for balance.
If he has been over trained in draw reins, it will take a while for those muscles to "un-develop". Play about with the walk, on long reins: if you don't hold on to the contact, he will have to work out his own balance. Do not worry if he seems to get his head unbalanced in transitions, he will have to work it out himself, rather than relying on strong supportive contact.
There is the fact that he has a new rider, new tack and so on, so may just be generally feeling things a bit stiff, just do short sessions, less than forty minutes, and lots of freedom, maybe Calm and Condition if a complete feed is required.
Otherwise Minerals and vitamins and no cereals: hi fibre [Fast Fibre or non molassed sugar beet with Micronised linseed meal for extra condition.
Use voice aids rather than leg aids if he is being explosive, maybe you have got used to one way of riding and have not adapted to his needs.
 
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Miss L Toe said:
I would try long reining in twenty, down to fifteen metre circles to try to release the neck, and stiffness on one side, keep the level of the reins [height] adjusted and the contact light in order to keep him stretching and loosening. Also go back to basics with ground work, walking over poles for balance.
If he has been over trained in draw reins, it will take a while for those muscles to "un-develop". Play about with the walk, on long reins: if you don't hold on to the contact, he will have to work out his own balance. Do not worry if he seems to get his head unbalanced in transitions, he will have to work it out himself, rather than relying on strong supportive contact.
There is the fact that he has a new rider, new tack and so on, so may just be generally feeling things a bit stiff, just do short sessions, less than forty minutes, and lots of freedom, maybe Calm and Condition if a complete feed is required.
Otherwise Minerals and vitamins and no cereals: hi fibre [Fast Fibre or non molassed sugar beet with Micronised linseed meal for extra condition.
Use voice aids rather than leg aids if he is being explosive, maybe you have got used to one way of riding and have not adapted to his needs.
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Thankyou for this advice I will certainly put it in to practise.

I have just come back from the yard. I have found that he responds to very very slight leg aids- literally move them and he goes from walk to trot, so he was not 'exploding' today. I also put his flash back on and he seemed better. He does not like a strong hold on the mouth at all (apart from when he leans and there is not a lot of choice) . He only had one silly nap where he leaped and reared slightly when I blocked him with my hands, I asked him to stand for 2 seconds every once in a while then asked him to move off before he got silly. I also hacked him around the fields and he was fine, went ahead and would stand still no problem without being silly so I think it is schooling fears.

Head is still stuck to chest though with any contact on the bit so much to work on. He seemed a lot better with a bit thick quilted saddlepad and sheepskin half pad underneath a saddle, he has a sticky out spine so that can't be very nice for him in a thinner one! Horses teeth are going to be done next week and also going to get a proffessional rider/producer I had lessons with before out to have a ride with him and offer me some tips, as well as instruct me on him.

Fingers crossed it is just because he's inexperienced and all will be ok. Thanks again everyone for the advice it really helps
 
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