need to vent about obnoxious dog walker on bridleway

[RunToEarth]

I think it highlights the importance of training horses to be able to cope with untoward hazards when taking them out in public. Horses can seem very intimidating to people on foot, so being able to stay calm and walk on past bouncy dogs, children and cyclists on bridleways isn't optional, it's essential.

I completely agree with this. Regardless of rules and laws and codes of good practice along with everything else, some people will not adhere.

It is all well and good that dog walkers should give way to horses and that they should have their dogs on leads, but reality is that some won't, and for those occasions it is always sensible to have horses who are trained to deal with less than ideal situations.

A bit like those god awful flappy England flags that will start appearing soon because of the world cup - yes I hate them and I wish no one would have them on their cars - but I have 6 in the yard in preparation - so my horses' at least get a chance to behave.

 

[sparklypickle]

I think it highlights the importance of training horses to be able to cope with untoward hazards when taking them out in public. Horses can seem very intimidating to people on foot, so being able to stay calm and walk on past bouncy dogs, children and cyclists on bridleways isn't optional, it's essential.

What a brilliant post.

Absolutely agreed. Our horses were perfectly well behaved but in this instance (even if people think the riders were not...) I dont think it would have been fair on the woman walking to go on past her when she had no control over the dogs.

Amymay, Im not trying to make it sound like anyone got hurt or the dogs were rabid or something, I was just a little disappointed about the walker's attitude (ie i cant be expected to control these animals as they dont belong to me, and I was here first so you will have to go elsewhere).

world cup flags eh? I think we'd better get some of those to dot around the place good idea

 

[serenityjane]

 the revised Dangerous Dogs Act is pretty clear on people feeling threatened by dogs, there doesn't have to be an actual attack/damage.

We have had problems with some dogs (collies) left loose in an unfenced garden near us which run out onto the single track road and 'threaten' passers-by, the road is also a footpath and the dogs will fly out to protect what they see as their their 'territory' when we walk, cycle and especially walk our dogs past them (fortunately they are scared of the horses, so do not attack when we ride past!). We got so sick of the lack of action by the dog warden and ultimately the dog owners who feel their dogs have the right to roam as they live in the country, that when they last ran out at our dogs (which were on leads) we reported it to the police. Who advised us to take another route, as nothing could be done until the dogs caused an accident or injury to a person (not another dog or a horse).
They did record the incident, and telephone the owner, but that was it. Their dogs still rush out at people passing, attack passing dogs, chase cyclists and wander down the road of an evening and crap on my lawn.

 

[AmyMay]

Absolutely agreed. Our horses were perfectly well behaved but in this instance (even if people think the riders were not...) I dont think it would have been fair on the woman walking to go on past her when she had no control over the dogs.

Amymay, Im not trying to make it sound like anyone got hurt or the dogs were rabid or something, I was just a little disappointed about the walker's attitude (ie i cant be expected to control these animals as they dont belong to me, and I was here first

Ah, right, so you were just trying to be fair to the dog walker. Got it.

Although as your horses were under control, why not simply walk on?

We meet many dog walkers when out. We simply give a cheery 'hello' and carry on, regardless of what the dogs may or may not be doing.

 

[Copperpot]

The changes to dangerous dogs act worry me. People's perception of threat is so different. A dog could be on a lead and bark at a horse and the rider could feel threatened and report it. To me that is ridiculous. If dogs are acting threateningly towards my horse I generally trot at them. They soon move and if they don't they will be kicked out the way. Mostly I just ignore them and carry on with what I'm doing. Yes sometimes they should be on a lead and some owners can't control them properly. But a loose dog running about not intending to hurt either me or my horse is not the end of the of the world.

 

[Caol Ila]

Yeah, I don't think I'd go past a snarling dog as per the OP's post. I don't care how well behaved my horse is or isn't. If the damned thing is threatening to attack and the owner can't control it, you can bet anything I'd be demanding they put it on a lead.

There is someone who walks a big German Shepherd in the forestry near my yard, and if I see them, I'll turn around and head off in a different, or the opposite direction. She has the dog on a lead, but when I have ridden past it, even on the verge and with her on the other verge and no way to create more space because of ditches on each side of the track, it leaps and snarls at the horse, pulling hard at the lead, and the owner is holding onto the lead for dear life and in a most unconvincing way. Train your dogs, people!

 

[fatpiggy]

What a brilliant post.

OK, so what do you do when your horse which has previously been perfectly ok with dogs, even ones running, barking and snapping, and swinging off the the horse's tail, then DOES get bitten by a dog and not surprisingly is panic-stricken at the mere sight of a strange dog even 10 years later?????? Because that is what happened to MY horse. A staffordshire got hold of her, ripped off her tendon and knee boots in pieces and gave me an £80 kit bill and a £110 vets bill for the laceration and puncture wounds. I asked a friend to bring a gentle dog down on a lead the next day to try to rehabilitate her and my horse shook like a leaf and pulled the leadrope of my hand and ran away. She would only tolerate familiar dogs for the remaining 15 years I had her. It wasn't the last time she was attacked either and it was one of the reasons I eventually moved her away to a different yard - she nearly put us both in the Mersey after an out of control boxer dog chased her down the river bank. I ALWAYS walked past other people by the way, before and after this incident. What amazing pearls of wisdom are you going to spread this time???

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

This sort of thing is best left to police.
Just advise her that you will have to call police.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Yeah, I don't think I'd go past a snarling dog as per the OP's post. I don't care how well behaved my horse is or isn't. If the damned thing is threatening to attack and the owner can't control it, you can bet anything I'd be demanding they put it on a lead.

There is someone who walks a big German Shepherd in the forestry near my yard, and if I see them, I'll turn around and head off in a different, or the opposite direction. She has the dog on a lead, but when I have ridden past it, even on the verge and with her on the other verge and no way to create more space because of ditches on each side of the track, it leaps and snarls at the horse, pulling hard at the lead, and the owner is holding onto the lead for dear life and in a most unconvincing way. Train your dogs, people!

If I meet this situation whether I am on horseback on not, if owner makes no attempt to scold dog, I will talk to the dog in my most authoritative voice, this often works because the dog has never been told how to behave. If I meet young dogs on a lead and they kick off I stop horse and chat to owner about the weather or whatever until dogs shut up.
Snarling dogs should be muzzled and under control, otherwise they are dangerous. I do not know why people have dogs they clearly can't control and show obvious aggression. Once they are allowed to behave this way it becomes ingrained.

 

[ihatework]

I think it highlights the importance of training horses to be able to cope with untoward hazards when taking them out in public. Horses can seem very intimidating to people on foot, so being able to stay calm and walk on past bouncy dogs, children and cyclists on bridleways isn't optional, it's essential.

I think this is the crux of the matter.

At the end of the day the majority of off lead dogs you meet aren't going to attack your horse. The worst that is likely to happen is they will bounce around excitedly barking/yapping. That is not to say there isn't a rare time when a proper attack will happen, and if it does I accept this is awful, but bad things happen all the time and sometimes you just cannot control those things.

Normally when I meet PITA dogs, I stop the horse smile and chat with the owner and then say how well behaved my horse is but I'm concerned for their dogs safety - if they had met my other (fictional) horse the horse would have been kicked and possibly killed and I would hate for that to happen to their beautiful dog.

 

[serenityjane]

The police cannot do anything until a person is injured.
A local man used to come and walk his St Bernards (two of them) along the road outside our house. They were always on leads, but were very excitable and strong (far too strong for the owner to hold if they wanted to go- so poorly trained too!) The police had been called on numerous occasions (by our neighbours and other people) when his dogs have charged at joggers, jumped up at passing cars, pulled free and run up peoples drives chasing their dogs etc etc. But nothing could really be done. We actually only met the poor man and his dogs once, when we were on horseback on the narrow road, he went into the nearest field and tied himself to the gate, as we passed (he asked us to do so quickly, but we did just walk as we felt if we trotted past, it would exite the already barking and pulling dogs far too much!) They barked and leapt about, pulled the man and the gate over and I have a lasting memory as we went past of seeing the chap being dragged along the ground before he got control. Fortunately he does not walk them here any more.
I actually feel sympathy for this man though as he tried his best to stop anything happening, even though better training would have been the solution, he is totally different to those dog owners who just do not see potential problems, or if they do, just do not care!! We have a Great Dane who is a stupid dope on a rope on walks, and on her own. If we walk her with our other dogs (and in particular one which likes to yap a lot at anything we meet) and meet anyone on foot or with dogs she becomes a mad beast, pulling, barking, looks quite terrifying and has on occasions pulled us off our feet to chase a swan, or another dog............leaves us in a heap on the floor, bounds over leaping and snarling.....sniffs, circles.....walks away. We do however know this and have lots of avoidance techniques- usually turn around and find another way home, walk only on our own land, go into the nearest field/gateway/driveway and make sure yappy one doesn't yap and the best one (but only if the people we meet agree) just let her off the lead.

 

[Spring Feather]

I'd just have ridden past the dog and gone on my way.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

I'd just have ridden past the dog and gone on my way.

really? if a dog was snarling i would neither walk past on foot OR walk past on my horse. That is a clear threat (whether due to fear, agression, frustration or whatever) and i dont want to be on the recieving end of it.

 

[Spring Feather]

really? if a dog was snarling i would neither walk past on foot OR walk past on my horse. That is a clear threat (whether due to fear, agression, frustration or whatever) and i dont want to be on the recieving end of it.

Yes really. I doubt it was snarling. It's a collie and was in the down position. I've owned collies all my life and once they're down they tend to stay there and watch. When they are unleashed it is uncommon for a collie to lunge. So yes, I'd feel quite confident to walk calmly past a lying down collie.

 

[sparklypickle]

haha! I misread your post Spring Feather I thought you said "I'VE just ridden past a dog and gone on my way"... thought that was an odd thing to say (thinking of the hundred of dogs I've passed with only a smile, a hello, and a 'what a good dog'...but don't normally tell people about it...though I daresay there are probably people who'd tweet that!) silly old me

Anyway I think these things come down to the subconscious risk assesment that you do at the time. Interesting to hear that people have such strong views but honestly if everyone tries their best to have well-trained animals, and act responsibly and politely, we will all get along just fine - there's plenty of countryside for us to share.

 

[LadyGascoyne]

Collies at usually not aggressive dogs but they do have a propensity to ankle-nip and herd. I know my horses would take serious offence to being "herded" and therefore would not ride past.

My collie is incredibly respectful and will lie down and stay on command. I still put him on a lead as a show of good faith when there are horses about.

My horses are dog-proof barring physical contact, nipping or herding- which I think is reasonable. I would ride past a yapping dog, a bouncing dog or a curious dog. I would not ride past a snarling dog or a herding dog. I would turn back and go the way I came or find a different route.

I think the thing is that both parties are in control of unpredictable animals, both should try to be as respectful as possible. If the other party is refusing to play ball, I would rather be the bigger person and turn back or change routes. It would make my hack miserable to attempt to continue and no one would have a nice time. There's nothing gained from both parties pushing to get their own way.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

Yes really. I doubt it was snarling. It's a collie and was in the down position. I've owned collies all my life and once they're down they tend to stay there and watch. When they are unleashed it is uncommon for a collie to lunge. So yes, I'd feel quite confident to walk calmly past a lying down collie.

however most people dont have such in depth dog knowledge and if it even so much as curled a lip, i wouldnt feel happy.

and if it WAS snarling? what would you do then?

 

[Spring Feather]

however most people dont have such in depth dog knowledge and if it even so much as curled a lip, i wouldnt feel happy.

and if it WAS snarling? what would you do then?

Depends on the actual scenario. I might ignore it and ride past, or I might give it a command and ride past. I believe OP stopped her horse, I probably wouldn't have stopped unless to have a 'good morning' chat with the dog walker. If not stopping to chat then I'd just have kept on going.

 

[RunToEarth]

OK, so what do you do when your horse which has previously been perfectly ok with dogs, even ones running, barking and snapping, and swinging off the the horse's tail, then DOES get bitten by a dog and not surprisingly is panic-stricken at the mere sight of a strange dog even 10 years later?????? Because that is what happened to MY horse. A staffordshire got hold of her, ripped off her tendon and knee boots in pieces and gave me an £80 kit bill and a £110 vets bill for the laceration and puncture wounds. I asked a friend to bring a gentle dog down on a lead the next day to try to rehabilitate her and my horse shook like a leaf and pulled the leadrope of my hand and ran away. She would only tolerate familiar dogs for the remaining 15 years I had her. It wasn't the last time she was attacked either and it was one of the reasons I eventually moved her away to a different yard - she nearly put us both in the Mersey after an out of control boxer dog chased her down the river bank. I ALWAYS walked past other people by the way, before and after this incident. What amazing pearls of wisdom are you going to spread this time???

If I owned a horse which had such a dramatic reaction to dogs I would try my damned hardest not to take her anywhere where they might be dogs, providing I felt confident I had tried everything to resolve her fear of dogs.

 

[AmyMay]

really? if a dog was snarling i would neither walk past on foot OR walk past on my horse. That is a clear threat (whether due to fear, agression, frustration or whatever) and i dont want to be on the recieving end of it.

But it wasn't snarling.

 

[Christmascinnamoncookie]

 the revised Dangerous Dogs Act is pretty clear on people feeling threatened by dogs, there doesn't have to be an actual attack/damage.

We have had problems with some dogs (collies) left loose in an unfenced garden near us which run out onto the single track road and 'threaten' passers-by, the road is also a footpath and the dogs will fly out to protect what they see as their their 'territory' when we walk, cycle and especially walk our dogs past them (fortunately they are scared of the horses, so do not attack when we ride past!). We got so sick of the lack of action by the dog warden and ultimately the dog owners who feel their dogs have the right to roam as they live in the country, that when they last ran out at our dogs (which were on leads) we reported it to the police. Who advised us to take another route, as nothing could be done until the dogs caused an accident or injury to a person (not another dog or a horse).
They did record the incident, and telephone the owner, but that was it. Their dogs still rush out at people passing, attack passing dogs, chase cyclists and wander down the road of an evening and crap on my lawn.

Look at the very newly revised Dangerous Dogs Act-you CAN report a potentially dangerous dog, it does not have to attack, you just have to feel threatened. The NAWT also advises that you should be seeking the help of a behaviourist should your dog be a PITA at the door when you have visitors!! No jumping up/barking etc-it's now labelled as 'dangerous'.

This sort of thing is best left to police.
Just advise her that you will have to call police.

Absolutely-totally within your rights.

The police cannot do anything until a person is injured.

Wrong-see new points in Dangerous Dog Act.

Think the OP mentioned growling which I would find extremely intimidating and that the dog was in the bridleway so it might not have been possible to just go through the dog!

Mine was in some kind of bizarre mood yesterday, wouldn't be caught in then going past the YO's house where three dogs were running in the garden, he went absolutely loopy, he's very spooky round dogs and if a dog walker can't hold a dog, I'd have to backtrack-not always possible on a narrow bridleway.

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

But it wasn't snarling.

whilst i do now see that they weren't snarling AT THAT POINT, OP clearly states they were initially "growling" and TBH i dont think id want to walk past a loose dog that had been growling a minute previously, esp if the handler didnt seem in control.

so i still wouldnt be happy either.

 

[Hippona]

My previous horse was not in the least bothered by dogs.
One day out hacking a small white dog was yapping around his back legs....owner did nothing, I said nothing as horse wasn't upset, but horse casually flicked out his back leg and with a carefully aimed hoof got the dog in the chops...

Bet it never did that again.

And no.....I didn't apologise, it wasn't mine or my horses fault....he was simply defending himself....

 

[thatsmygirl]

No I wouldn't of rode past, after having a dog near our yard ( years ago when I was a teenager) which was never under the owners commends and use to sit and growl for months at the horses as we just rode past, horses never minded and the dog never moved so I wasn't v concerned but it started to move up a stage and he started nipping at the horses legs and snapping at them ( one day I whipped him hard in front of his owner) as he snapped and snapped at my horses front legs and she was dancing to try and miss him. owner was always nice and a old lady but had no control. Well I thought the whipping had worked as he left us alone for the next few weeks until I saw him being walked while I was getting my horse in from the field and he ran stright at us, my horse started to get jumpy and she use to be so good around dogs until this one. Anyway it wasn't my horse he wanted this time it was me, he jumped at me from behind, grabbed my hair and dragged me to the ground while chucking me round like a rag doll ( he remembered that whipping) all I could hear was the owner calling him as per normal. Dog was pts in the end but I will never trust dogs which don't listen to their owners/walkers. All those that say oh yes we would just ride by, so easy said until you end up with a much worst problem and if a dog is lied down growling that to me is threatening behaviour and after what iv been though with a dog I would never trust another who's manners aren't spot on and listening to the owner. Oh yes I know , somebody is bound to say " but a dog who has manners can still attack " we can all pick words about but at the end of the day we need to get on with life and I would rather ride past a pleasant well mannered dog but wouldn't if its growling.
******I'm quite lucky that dog owners in our area are very good and do put dogs on leads and have never had a problem since ******

 

[maisie06]

Another must out hacking is to carry a good hunting crop - any nasty dog coming at one of my horses would get a lash..