Negativity and stereotyping horses - thoughts?

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P.forpony

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I'm just musing on how we think and speak about our horses, after realising that a certain company have supplements for mares and geldings with hormonal behavioural issues, the geldings is called Perfect Gentleman and the mares Stroppy Mare...

The more I think about this the more I dislike it.
On rather a few levels.
Gender stereotyping, minimising female pain, ignoring an animals distress and labelling it misbehaviour.
I think it's more obvious because the geldings version is so positive and aspirational and the mares is so derogatory and negative.

I know most of us probably say less than complimentary things about our animals sometimes, I know I do 🙈
But I think sometimes it can be a self fulfilling prophesy, and the negative speech leads to our behaviours and handling lacking positivity and then in a little vicious circle, ending in complaining that the horse isn't happy and obedient and therefore deserves the rude things being said about it....

Sh*tland is another example, amusing possibly, but I'd much prefer to see people taking pride in educating small ponies to have manners, and rewarding good behaviour, rather than just accepting they're all little rotters.

Not quite sure where I end up on this, am I taking it too seriously, or is it potentially problematic?
 
I do agree. I have ridden a couple of RS geldings in my time but my four long term rides have all been mares.
And you are right ,almost none of the Westen songs are about Mares. The only one I know is Doney Gal. Appropriately today it is about riding in the rain.
 
P.forpony said:
after realising that a certain company have supplements for mares and geldings with hormonal behavioural issues, the geldings is called Perfect Gentleman and the mares Stroppy Mare...
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What is the name of their stallion version?
P.forpony said:
The more I think about this the more I dislike it.
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I really dislike it and many times on here I have felt like calling it out but ...
P.forpony said:
I know most of us probably say less than complimentary things about our animals sometimes, I know I do 🙈
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I think that when you see it then you make every effort to not use derogatory language

P.forpony said:
But I think sometimes it can be a self fulfilling prophesy, and the negative speech leads to our behaviours and handling lacking positivity and then in a little vicious circle, ending in complaining that the horse isn't happy and obedient and therefore deserves the rude things being said about it....
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Language is the thin end of a wedge
P.forpony said:
Not quite sure where I end up on this, am I taking it too seriously, or is it potentially problematic?
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It's well worth taking seriously.
 
If you’re using the stereotypes as an excuse for poor behaviour or an animal that’s in pain then it’s an issue.

Like anything, if used in jest and in the context originally intended it can be amusing. But language does matter and we should all respect our horses enough to know where the line is.
 
We absolutely should challenge the misogyny in names like "stroppy mare".

All change takes is a lot of people writing to a company and calling it out on social media.

So my challenge to everyone who reads this is take 5min to email the company complaining about the name of their product. Once you've written an email use it as a template to email every company with a similar sounding products.

These companies know that a significant % of horse owners are female, if they think they are alienating their customers they will change.

I'd name the company and post their contact details but that might breach HHO policies.
 
In general, I agree, particularly about mares. So much concerning behaviour is dismissed as “just a mare”,or worse “chestnut mare”, when it’s really indicative of pain, discomfort and distress.

Shetlands - all native ponies, really - do tend to have a mischievous streak though. Calling a pony a sh*tland because it has a creative approach to ignoring fencing is valid, in my book. Using it as an excuse not to do basic training, or to excuse red flag behaviour is not.
 
JFTDWS said:
In general, I agree, particularly about mares. So much concerning behaviour is dismissed as “just a mare”,or worse “chestnut mare”, when it’s really indicative of pain, discomfort and distress.

Shetlands - all native ponies, really - do tend to have a mischievous streak though. Calling a pony a sh*tland because it has a creative approach to ignoring fencing is valid, in my book. Using it as an excuse not to do basic training, or to excuse red flag behaviour is not.
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This.


My issue is with TB ex racers and people calling then "nuts" or "difficult to ride" when mostly they have a pain issue or are struggling to adapt to normal yard life etc
 
I have seen "stroppy mare" supplement on shelves but never noticed the other one. It would have been different if they both had negative but that's unreal. (Will email them).

I love my 2 mares and I do call them (more one than the other) grumpy but she is in charge so you often see her ears back. I say it affectionately rather than meaning it negatively. She's my number one girl.

My gelding was so sweet when he arrived but he has learned to put his ears back (usually due to mare number 2) so I lovingly say they've taught him the mare stare. His personality has come out from being aloof to wanting to be involved in everything.
He's still very sweet. Ideally I would have 3 mares as I really click with them but mare 1 can only have the right mare in her field.
(A loan mare and her didn't click and they damaged my shelter, my solar light and a row of post and wire fencing including a strainer post).

I love my 3 and while I call them brats and other assorted things it's my love language. I tell my partner I don't like him (usually when he denies me chocolate 🤣 and it's become our I love you).

It's when people say I don't like Arabs as they're crazy, I don't like Sh!tlands etc as it's usually because they're too clever for those people and they've just dismissed an entire breed. Maybe I'm strange though as I'd love fields full of Shetlands, Arabs, Highlands and all mares including chestnuts. - I was hoping for a chestnut mare but the bay boy caught my eye.
 
JFTDWS said:
Shetlands - all native ponies, really - do tend to have a mischievous streak though. Calling a pony a sh*tland because it has a creative approach to ignoring fencing is valid, in my book. Using it as an excuse not to do basic training, or to excuse red flag behaviour is not.
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I'm slightly biased on this I have to admit.
I have a shetland.
Yes they absolutely have character and he's young and entire so adding that into the mix means the cheek levels rise accordingly.
Watching him very deliberately wind up the other horses or sneak up on the dog definitely earns him some alternative names.

But it makes me a bit sad sometimes when we're out and about and people are surprised that hes not a feral little savage.
 
this is one i’ve been guilty of just today! now i’m not a mare person at all despite having 2, but what i love about geldings is what most mare people hate - how empty between the ears they are and dopey🤣

just today i was saying to my saddle fitter about the difference between my two, how lily is more like a gelding and i can “bully” her into something (not literally, im talking going past a scary leaf rather than having to get off and lead) whilst diva is more of a “typical” mare, cos she can be a grump!

i was saying because lily is the way she is, i kind of forgot what mares can be like until i got diva. yet thinking about it, i’ve met plenty of geldings that act exactly the same as she does - she’s not nasty, she’s just opinionated!
 
I think stroppy mare is a great name . I do have a mare she is very affectionate and cuddly but in season like me can be stroppy . And yes she is fed stroppy mare and yes it really helps .
 
I just think there are bigger things to worry about. None of my mares have been stroppy but they are far more tricky than geldings. They take twice as much effort and the gelding rocks up, does his thing consistently and goes home. Meanwhile the mare has 3 months a year where she is stable and level and competitive.
 
I think Tbs are often called nuts unfairly as they are often bought by novices on budgets who also don't spend on training and wonder why they don't improve.
Slightlyconfused said:
This.


My issue is with TB ex racers and people calling then "nuts" or "difficult to ride" when mostly they have a pain issue or are struggling to adapt to normal yard life etc
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I must admit I wouldn't have another mare, my last one had her ovaries out. I understand the reasons why they can be the way they are but I have enough problems with my own hormones without taking on someone else's

The ads looking for an all rounder that say no trotters and no tb wind me up, they can be better and safer than the chunky cob the ad is looking for
 
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Taking stereotyping even further, by the company producing the supplement's logic, maybe chocolate and wine should be renamed PMS busters, and beer and chips should be 'boys will be boys'! I agree, OP. Not only does this kind of branding stereotype females in general negatively, it also diminishes the importance of taking note of possible discomfort in our horses.
 
I've gone down a rabbit hole now with PP supplements. Their mare one is called 'Sassy Mare' and their male alternative is called 'Hormone Balance'. Even the language on the packs is interesting.

Hormone Balance: Support blood flow and provide vital nutrition known to support a healthy hormone balance. Ideal for Riggy Geldings. Contains a high level of Vitamin C and E for optimum health.

Sassy Mare: Hormones in mares can lead to ‘stroppy’, unwilling behaviour, sometimes making a horse difficult to handle and resulting in a reduction in performance. Helps control her moodiness and help keep her calm. Treat bursting with hormone focused ingredients to support sassy attitude and season. Help her to feel more comfortable and reduce unwilling behaviour.
 
I absolutely hate it when people consistently swear at their horses - or any animal in their care. Its like they're confirming over and over again to themselves that the animal is constantly and consistently at fault, and they themselves are perfect... It shows a lack of empathy, imagination and possible signs of a low IQ. They are consistently moving the blame on to the horse without questioning their own capabilities as an owner/rider. One person I knew was endlessly calling their mare a 'bitch', and never seemed to have anything positive to say to her or about her - it was so sad to witness this on a daily basis. One day I asked them why they even bothered owning a horse and pointed out that she was not a bitch, but a horse. I was met with stunned silence. Needless to say, they didn't stay on my yard very long.
 
Stereotypes are useful when you're narrowing down the horses available to buy. How else could you do it other than viewing everything?

After that you deal with the horse you have in front of you and don't make assumptions.

But the mare Vs gelding thing is valid, one is entire the other is not. Doesn't mean you can't have a calm mare and a difficult gelding but it is useful information.

We put stallions in their own category but mares are compared to geldings, it is unfair and unhelpful.
 
Yeah, the TB thing... My NH ex-racer was the safest horse I had ever owned. You could literally put a toddler on him or your granny. There were several times out hacking when we'd met something like a huge tractor & baler at close quarters chucking out large square bales at a rate of knots & I've thought, 'OMGOMGOMGOMG I'm gonna die', & he was, 'oh, there's a baler, whatevs'.

I now have a mare as my main horse for the first time in years & let's just say that she's a lot nicer on Regumate. I agree with the supplement name objections though. I really used to suffer with hormones & hormone-related pain & it's a very real thing rather than being 'stroppy'. Any creature is not going to be very happy if they are uncomfortable, let alone with a great lump (me) bouncing around more or less on top of the source of the pain (ovaries).
 
catembi said:
Yeah, the TB thing... My NH ex-racer was the safest horse I had ever owned. You could literally put a toddler on him or your granny. There were several times out hacking when we'd met something like a huge tractor & baler at close quarters chucking out large square bales at a rate of knots & I've thought, 'OMGOMGOMGOMG I'm gonna die', & he was, 'oh, there's a baler, whatevs'.

I now have a mare as my main horse for the first time in years & let's just say that she's a lot nicer on Regumate. I agree with the supplement name objections though. I really used to suffer with hormones & hormone-related pain & it's a very real thing rather than being 'stroppy'. Any creature is not going to be very happy if they are uncomfortable, let alone with a great lump (me) bouncing around more or less on top of the source of the pain (ovaries).
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Balers = dinner to clever horses 😉
 
The stereotyping of mares is possibly my biggest hate in the horse world, full stop. My mare was once very ill, I know her like the back of my hand and her 'grumpy' behaviour was so out of character. The vet dismissed my concerns as 'maybe that's just her personality' :mad: Less than a month later I almost lost her, it was another vet who ran further tests that found the issue and thankfully she was successfully treated and back to her old self again. If she had been a gelding, would the first vet have been so dismissive? It makes me livid to this day just thinking about it.

Edited to add as I feel it's important to note that this was a youngish vet and not so long ago. The 'grumpy' mare stereotype is alive and well, it's such a dated and unscientific way to think - internalised misogyny undoubtedly.
 
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