Neighbour has removed fence of grazing land.

[meleeka]

A friend has been renting a field for 20 or so years and doesn’t have a formal agreement. The neighbours replaced the adjoining fence a few years ago with post and rail and with their agreement a 6ft fence was built onto this (friend paid 50% and her landlord 50%). The neighbours have recently sold the adjoining field and new people have removed the whole fence! The problem my friend has is that her land owner doesn’t appear to be bothered and friend now has a field that isn’t properly fenced which she’s paying rent on. Does she have any rights as a tenant? (She feels if she just stops paying rent because she can’t use the field she’ll be evicted)

 

[ester]

Who owns the boundary? I'm a little confused about post and rail with a 6ft fence built onto it?

 

[alainax]

OK so neighbours replaced their fence, and your friend and land lord then paid to have another fence (6ft) attached to the neighbours new one.

New people move in, and removed both fences ( presumably both were using the same posts?).

Is it a shared boundary or was it on one persons side? The new people would have been in their rights to remove it all if it was on their side, but give your friend back her panels. Same if they took down their fence, and left your friends fence alone, but if it shared posts it will all have came down anyway! What happened to the material your friend paid for? Id be knocking on their door asking for my fence panels back, then putting new posts in on the right side of the boundary and reinstating my fence.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

OK so neighbours replaced their fence, and your friend and land lord then paid to have another fence (6ft) attached to the neighbours new one.

New people move in, and removed both fences ( presumably both were using the same posts?).

Is it a shared boundary or was it on one persons side? The new people would have been in their rights to remove it all if it was on their side, but give your friend back her panels. Same if they took down their fence, and left your friends fence alone, but if it shared posts it will all have came down anyway! What happened to the material your friend paid for? Id be knocking on their door asking for my fence panels back, then putting new posts in on the right side of the boundary and reinstating my fence.

This.

It is the stock owner's responsibility to fence their animals in securely, so it is quite unwise to rely on the neighbour's fence. That is why, round here, you will often see a drystone wall with fencing, of one kind or another, at either side of it. I would certainly go and talk to the new owner of the neighbouring land, to find out what they are planning to do with the boundary and to ask for the fencing which your friend paid for back.

 

[ester]

deleted because I'd missed the point re. neighbours

 

[meleeka]

I believe the fence is on a shared boundary, but I’m not certain as the land friend is on isn’t registered. . The fence they took down was burnt so no chance of getting it back.

I think my friends landowner should either replace the fence or not charge rent while the field is unusable. I’m horrified that he doesn’t seem at all bothered that someone has stolen his fence! It might have something to do with the fact they are Irish travellers that he feels he can’t say anything. They have said they’ll replace it but “it’ll take a few months”. My hunch is that when they do replace it it will be in a different place than it was, but that’s the owners problem to deal with I suppose.

 

[alainax]

As the friend is unconcerned about the now burnt fence - its more a question of if the owner of the land should be providing fencing repairs and upkeep or the tenant. If it was a basic commercial or land lease it would be the tenant, if it was livery the YO may be responsible. With no contract in place it would be a hard (and potentially expensive)one to dispute either way. Options are fix the fence, ask land owner to fix it, or be prepared to leave if neither agree.

It might be worth considering how much your friend values being able to rent this land, and how much availability there is around.

Your friend needs to be careful if there could be any damage done to the now unfenced property, as it is often the livestock owners responsibility to ensure they are appropriately fenced in.

 

[JillA]

If friend and her landlord installed the fence it belongs to them, notwithstanding that you fence against your own stock, but it is complicated by the fact that it relied on the neighbours own fence for support?. I would be advising the neighbours that at least they are guilty of criminal damage (your friend owns 50% so it is in part her complaint) and giving them a certain time to replace or reinstate it or have to pay for the replacement your friend will install. Ask CAB for confirmation or BHS legal helpline (or any connected insurer if she has legal cover).
She could probably replace it and then pursue the neighbour for the costs but needs to speak to someone with up to date legal knowledge.

 

[meleeka]

Both excellent points. Thank you. The original fence was hers as she rented both parts. In hindsight she should have put her new fence on its own. She got on very well with precious neighbours so didn’t think it necessary and it was their suggestion. I will find the relevant bit about her being responsible for her own livestock and show her.

 

[ester]

It would be interesting to know what the new neighbours propose to do with it, presumably not add stock if they have removed the fence/they arent against her stock grazing their half?!

 

[meleeka]

It would be interesting to know what the new neighbours propose to do with it, presumably not add stock if they have removed the fence/they arent against her stock grazing their half?!

It’s a traveller site now, permission granted a few years ago you’d think they’d worry about the horses damaging their caravans wouldn’t you but it appears getting a couple of feet more land is worth the trouble for them (which I think is what all this is actually about).
When they took the fence down they just kept chasing the horses away until friend came up and found them all scared in a corner and moved them.

 

[Rowreach]

It’s a traveller site now, permission granted a few years ago you’d think they’d worry about the horses damaging their caravans wouldn’t you but it appears getting a couple of feet more land is worth the trouble for them (which I think is what all this is actually about).
When they took the fence down they just kept chasing the horses away until friend came up and found them all scared in a corner and moved them.

I wouldn't want my horses there at all, so I would be forgetting about the fence and finding somewhere else for them to live!

 

[Tiddlypom]

I wouldn't want my horses there at all, so I would be forgetting about the fence and finding somewhere else for them to live!

This!

 

[ihatework]

I wouldn't want my horses there at all, so I would be forgetting about the fence and finding somewhere else for them to live!

Ditto!

 

[ester]

same, and I actually wonder if the landlord intends to perhaps sell to them anyway if he isn't bothered about the fencing?

 

[meleeka]

Rumour has it they paid half a million for this half acre site so he may well do if they think they will get permission on it.
Although the previous travellers were no trouble, this is why my friend paid half to have a 6ft fence erected in the first place.

 

[Nasicus]

I wouldn't want my horses there at all, so I would be forgetting about the fence and finding somewhere else for them to live!

Aye, I'd be outta there as soon as possible. I'd run some electric fencing along the boundary for now (make sure to run it waaaaay up into her land, so the energiser and battery are as far away from prying eyes/sticky fingers as possible) to keep the horses safe, and in all honesty, would just give up on getting recompense for the removed fence and move for the sake of an easy life!

 

[Caracarrie]

As soon as you said they were Irish travellers I knew they were going to make it into a residential site. A couple I knew sold a piece of their land to someone who wanted a 'pony paddock' and was horrified when just a few weeks later, the planning application went in to make it a permanent site with bungalows. Luckily, it has been refused repeatedly so far.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Aye, I'd be outta there as soon as possible. I'd run some electric fencing along the boundary for now (make sure to run it waaaaay up into her land, so the energiser and battery are as far away from prying eyes/sticky fingers as possible) to keep the horses safe, and in all honesty, would just give up on getting recompense for the removed fence and move for the sake of an easy life!

Tbh, I'd be gone before even trying this. The horses' safety is paramount.

 

[Nasicus]

Tbh, I'd be gone before even trying this. The horses' safety is paramount.

I meant between now and imminently moving, I didn't want to assume OP had the ability/funds/available places to pick them up and move them today!

 

[ester]

They aren't there currently

 

[meleeka]

Not happy. My friends horses were safely contained in another part of her field but ended up out on the road today, in thick fog. We aren’t on a main road but they were only about 50 yards away from a major roundabout.The only way they could have gotten out was through the travellers gates. They have also gone through a field with lush grass (the one she can’t use) so pretty unlikely that they did it alone. The reason I think is because somebody reported him to the council for his new buildings 😡😡😡
I can’t believe she’s still there tbh. I wouldn’t be. P****y scum 😡

 

[Tiddlypom]

Not great, but not unexpected. She was very unwise not to move them straight away.

 

[LaurenBay]

Your friend needs to move them pretty dam quickly! I don't think this will be the only incident sadly.