Neighbour is pouring the river into my field. WWYD?

[Mike007]

Could the Outlet from the sluice be blocked on your land?If so ,you would be as entitled to stop the flow on your land as he is entitled to open the sluice on his. He is using your land to control the river level ,at your cost. Unless in your title deeds it is given that he has this right ,he has no right. He knows this and that is why he threatens and tries to intimidate. Sandbags filled with dry lean mix concrete make a wonderfull dam if laid correctly.Also what part of the country are you?

 

[Mike007]

Yes, and there are some pretty pumped up arrogant QCs out there. I have in my career managed to shatter some of their illusions. Please dont think that these people are intellegent, oh yes they are "clever" in some ways ,but they are generaly unable to see the big picture and that is how one beats them.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I'd play sneakily I think and get someone to gemmy off his padlock and then shut the sluice denying all knowledge .

Then I'd contact the law society saying you like some guidance as to how to resolve a dispute with a QC who whilst not possibly acting illegally is certainly acting immorally and costing you your livelihood re your horses ( lay it on thick ). If nothing else it should cause him embarrassment .

Also is there anything like a profit a pendre on the land or river which is the right of others to gain / profit from your land ie if fishing club has right to fish on a piece of land and river now gone from that land this denying them their fish , or shooting , game hunters anything maybe another angle to go in from.

This ^ and make sure you use an Ingersoll padlock.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

This ^ and make sure you use an Ingersoll padlock.

I don't advise the use of criminal methods to fight anyone, it will not help your case.

 

[YasandCrystal]

I don't advise the use of criminal methods to fight anyone, it will not help your case.

Why would this be criminal if the ownership/control of the sluice is a grey area? But I guess you are right - it's the QC's padlock so OP shouldn't interfere with it without recognised authority. I would be investigating via the local records office anything I could find to understand who in the past had control/ownership over the sluice. Horrible situation - the QC sounds a selfish man.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Why would this be criminal if the ownership/control of the sluice is a grey area? But I guess you are right - it's the QC's padlock so OP shouldn't interfere with it without recognised authority. I would be investigating via the local records office anything I could find to understand who in the past had control/ownership over the sluice. Horrible situation - the QC sounds a selfish man.

my horse was padlocked in a field, and because the abuser claimed ownership I was unable to remove him, legal process

 

[YasandCrystal]

my horse was padlocked in a field, and because the abuser claimed ownership I was unable to remove him, legal process

That sounds horrendous MrsD123 - I do hope you won the legal battle.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

That sounds horrendous MrsD123 - I do hope you won the legal battle.

I bought him back.
The whole thing was dreadful, both financially and emotionally.

 

[Antw23uk]

Take to the internet, get the press involved. They LOVE stories about this old grumpy goats!

 

[pennyturner]

Thank you everyone. I have enough money to be comfortable, but not enough for lawyers, so I have always been very afraid to use the law, but I think in this case I will have to in the end.

I don't want to do anything illegal, and that includes anything which might damage these delicate Hampshire chalk-streams.

Will continue with EA and the council (not sure if they have a drainage board!), but I think the press is not such a bad suggestion - if there's a chance someone might offer more emergency grazing, that would be a life-saver. Perhaps a picture of my sad children with their cute ponies all on the lawn in front of the house...

 

[RunToEarth]

Thank you everyone. I have enough money to be comfortable, but not enough for lawyers, so I have always been very afraid to use the law, but I think in this case I will have to in the end.

I don't want to do anything illegal, and that includes anything which might damage these delicate Hampshire chalk-streams.

Will continue with EA and the council (not sure if they have a drainage board!), but I think the press is not such a bad suggestion - if there's a chance someone might offer more emergency grazing, that would be a life-saver. Perhaps a picture of my sad children with their cute ponies all on the lawn in front of the house...

Hi OP - how far have you got with the EA - do you have names of their estates teams and direct contacts or are you still pottering along with general enquiries? I have gone through a similar process recently and may be able to help if you would like to PM me?

Have you seen this document produced by the EA - I have managed to quote it back to them on a few occasions and made small victories - http://cdn.environment-agency.gov.uk/LIT_7114_c70612.pdf

Have you tried contacting the UK rivers network. They don't have any statutory powers but they do provide a lot of good reasoned advice which is very helpful - http://www.ukrivers.net/about.html

Unfortunately for whatever reason, the IDBs seem to take watercourse management incredibly seriously but the EA are still dragging their feet somewhat, which is annoying when they are such a prevalent body.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Thank you everyone. I have enough money to be comfortable, but not enough for lawyers, so I have always been very afraid to use the law, but I think in this case I will have to in the end.

I don't want to do anything illegal, and that includes anything which might damage these delicate Hampshire chalk-streams.

Will continue with EA and the council (not sure if they have a drainage board!), but I think the press is not such a bad suggestion - if there's a chance someone might offer more emergency grazing, that would be a life-saver. Perhaps a picture of my sad children with their cute ponies all on the lawn in front of the house...

What I did was find out where I was correct in law [BHS helpline], I sent letters only to the solicitor, never getting involved personally [in as much as that was possible], the letters I sent were formal but not as though I was pretending to be a solicitor. They were brief, and could just as well have been composed by a solicitor [do you see where I am coming from].
I CANNOT EMPHASIS ENOUGH, ALL YOUR COMMUNICATIONS WITH EVERY OFFICIAL BODY MUST BE IN WRITING.
I used email and telephone when it was essential, there is no "friendly chat" his solicitor will be on his side. Do not forget this!!!!!
You need to ask for the name and address of his legal representative. Do NOT give an inch...
Generally speaking the law is on your side, not his.
When you speak to anyone you must get their full name and their position and write it down, if they refuse to give their full name, ask to speak to their manager, and repeat the dose.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I've always been told that it's not illegal to give water to anyone, just to take a source away. I've never checked that, but I would check it very thoroughly before accusing someone of acting outwith the law!

of course is is illegal to flood your neigbours' land, what would you think if your next door neighbour diverted their toilet outflow on to your lawn?

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

I'd play sneakily I think and get someone to gemmy off his padlock and then shut the sluice denying all knowledge .

Then I'd contact the law society saying you like some guidance as to how to resolve a dispute with a QC who whilst not possibly acting illegally is certainly acting immorally and costing you your livelihood re your horses ( lay it on thick ). If nothing else it should cause him embarrassment .

Also is there anything like a profit a pendre on the land or river which is the right of others to gain / profit from your land ie if fishing club has right to fish on a piece of land and river now gone from that land this denying them their fish , or shooting , game hunters anything maybe another angle to go in from.

It is worthwhile contacting the Law Society, they will record your complaint. Say very little, this is the club to which they pay to belong, ask for advice, obviously you wont get any which will be of assistance, but play the naive card!
and ask for the reference, to make sure it is recorded. Two can play at that game.

 

[RunToEarth]

of course is is illegal to flood your neigbours' land, what would you think if your next door neighbour diverted their toilet outflow on to your lawn?

Well, it is a tricky one. The law recognises that water will run to naturally low ground and therefore surface runoff from one property to a lower property cannot be prevented. However the Land Drainage Act 1991 requires the local authority or IDB to be notified of any works that will create or alter or obstruct the flow of an ordinary watercourse, which is what the OP's neighbour is doing.

I would also look on DEFRA - soil protection review was pretty heavy on protecting soils from leaching and flooding.

 

[Exploding Chestnuts]

Well, it is a tricky one. The law recognises that water will run to naturally low ground and therefore surface runoff from one property to a lower property cannot be prevented. However the Land Drainage Act 1991 requires the local authority or IDB to be notified of any works that will create or alter or obstruct the flow of an ordinary watercourse, which is what the OP's neighbour is doing.

I would also look on DEFRA - soil protection review was pretty heavy on protecting soils from leaching and flooding.

Of course it can be prevented.
I do gardens, on a new estate, all the water from next door neighbour's garden now runs on down to neighbours front door.
The water should be diverted in to a culvert, not in to next doors garden.

 

[Fransurrey]

I don't know how to resolve your particular situation, OP, but just wanted to give you a little hope. My field landlady had a similar problem when either the NT or the council ( not sure which), constructed a land drain which resulted in local rainwater creating a rive down the driveway to the field and flooding the field itself. I know that whoever was responsible did have to create a culvert from the bottom of the drive, which bypassed the field gateway and flowed into the local water treatment facility. I still had a river to negotiate, but the field was fine after that. Sadly, she died nearly two years ago, now, so I can't ask her how it was sorted, but I do know it was a legal matter.

 

[Toby_Zaphod]

I've read some of the thread but not all. Don't be worried about him being a QC, it means little except he has right of audience at the Crown Court, but even solicitors do now. It's good to get peoples thoughts on this issue but these thoughts are not telling you exactly what the law is regarding this situation. You need to consult a solicitor & also speak to your local council about this. Once you know what the legal position is then you can go 'sabre rattling' but don't do anything before because you will weaken your situation.

If the legality of the problem favors you then make your move but not before. When you know this you can enlist the help of the press. The press would love this 'Barrister beaks law' etc & this would help. Barristers are not only governed by the law like everyone else, although they sometimes they think they're above it, but their own proffession polices their actions as well.

Good luck with this issue but do everything legally & get proper legal advice.

 

[Honey08]

Not sure if I missed it, but have you actually said anything to him about it? Our neighbours drained their new drive into our gateway a few years ago, and were just too stupid to realise the harm it was doing to my field. I had a word with them and they changed it.

That would be my first action "Do you realise you're totally flooding this field" and if no remorse "You do realise I will have to take legal action over this.."

 

[Goldenstar]

I would just echo the person who said the best person to get some advice from would be a local land agent.
There's no point in going to law society that's just a waste of everybody's time this is not a matter connected to his professional conduct .
Keep pushing with the EA and the council in writing ringing people to little use if there's no paper trail.
Does the field belong to you OP ?

 

[pennyturner]

Not sure if I missed it, but have you actually said anything to him about it? Our neighbours drained their new drive into our gateway a few years ago, and were just too stupid to realise the harm it was doing to my field. I had a word with them and they changed it.

That would be my first action "Do you realise you're totally flooding this field" and if no remorse "You do realise I will have to take legal action over this.."

Totally agree with you. Most things can be sorted by talking nicely.
I've tried all manner of civilised contact, including a face to face meeting. He says one thing face to face, then does the other. I have a string of emails where he has responded to with lies and legal threats.

(

 

[pennyturner]

I would just echo the person who said the best person to get some advice from would be a local land agent.
There's no point in going to law society that's just a waste of everybody's time this is not a matter connected to his professional conduct .
Keep pushing with the EA and the council in writing ringing people to little use if there's no paper trail.
Does the field belong to you OP ?

It does belong to me. I have only owned it for a couple of years, but had use of it since 1999.

 

[Goldenstar]

Do the deeds throw any light on the situation .

 

[pennyturner]

Do the deeds throw any light on the situation .

Nothing in my deeds regarding the sluice, nor an easement for access - it can only be operated from my land!
He claims to have rights over the sluice in his deeds, but since he's got several sluices across the river (it's a mill), I'd want a very good look before I accepted that.

 

[Suechoccy]

It does belong to me. I have only owned it for a couple of years, but had use of it since 1999.

Perhaps that's part of it ... perhaps he wanted to buy your land but didn't get the chance to when you bought it instead. Making your field unusable means you'll be more likely to give up and sell it.

 

[Fides]

Nothing in my deeds regarding the sluice, nor an easement for access - it can only be operated from my land!.

Get a solicitors letter stating that as per your deeds he must cease and desist... A solicitors letter may be enough.

If your deeds do state this then you can just cut the lock off and give him a replacement so he can't claim criminal damage?

I now suspect as PT stated - he wants the land...

Have you contacted the BHS? As a gold member you have access to their legal advice for free. They may be interested in taking it forwards to 'set a precedent'?

 

[CBAnglo]

Nothing in my deeds regarding the sluice, nor an easement for access - it can only be operated from my land!
He claims to have rights over the sluice in his deeds, but since he's got several sluices across the river (it's a mill), I'd want a very good look before I accepted that.

Are you in the UK? If so, his title is likely to be registered therefore you can do a quick search on the land registry to get a copy of his title £6 I believe (although has been a while since I had to do a title search). You just need the postcode/address. Then you can see if he has any right to your sluice (you can also get the map, I think it is another £4 or £6).

Re complaints against the QC - he is not a member of the SRA but a member of the Bar Council. You can make a complaint that he is bringing the profession into disrepute by threatening legal action/acting illegally however I would just point out that such allegations are taken very seriously and he/the head of his chambers will be contacted regarding the complaint and he might become even more unpleasant when his career and reputation are on the line.

 

[Dry Rot]

Well, it is a tricky one. The law recognises that water will run to naturally low ground and therefore surface runoff from one property to a lower property cannot be prevented. However the Land Drainage Act 1991 requires the local authority or IDB to be notified of any works that will create or alter or obstruct the flow of an ordinary watercourse, which is what the OP's neighbour is doing.

I would also look on DEFRA - soil protection review was pretty heavy on protecting soils from leaching and flooding.

DEFRA are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot and know even less. I wouldn't hold your breath!

The key to dealing with bureaucrats is to be a polite but persistent nuisance and never give up. If they try "We are closing your case" card, use the Freedom of Information Act instead. Been there, done that, and am now a fully qualified nuisance!

The bureaucrat, as a species, will (like water) take the line of least resistance, so never never give up! Just keep annoying them until they sort it out.

 

[Goldenstar]

DEFRA are about as useful as a chocolate tea pot and know even less. I wouldn't hold your breath!

The key to dealing with bureaucrats is to be a polite but persistent nuisance and never give up. If they try "We are closing your case" card, use the Freedom of Information Act instead. Been there, done that, and am now a fully qualified nuisance!

The bureaucrat, as a species, will (like water) take the line of least resistance, so never never give up! Just keep annoying them until they sort it out.

DEFRA are more likely to bully OP about the state of her field.

 

[Honey08]

Totally agree with you. Most things can be sorted by talking nicely.
I've tried all manner of civilised contact, including a face to face meeting. He says one thing face to face, then does the other. I have a string of emails where he has responded to with lies and legal threats.

(

Fair enough, he sounds delightful! Time for a solicitor, it seems. Best of luck.