Neighbour sticking hand over garden fence

ponyparty

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.... right in the face of my dog, who doesn't like it and is growling. She claims that when she did this the other day, he went for her, but didn't make contact.

I mean, who leans over a fence and tries to pat a GROWLING dog on the head, really?

I've seen her do it - she comes out of her house, Frank is in the garden sunning himself, she'll approach the fence to talk to him. I understand, she is trying to make friends with him, she likes dogs, he's a lovely looking dog - I GET IT. But she doesn't seem to understand that this is HIS garden, HIS territory and he doesn't like people getting in his space.

If he were to bite, I'm guessing I would be liable? He could even get put down I guess in the worst possible circumstances. So obviously I need to put a stop to it. She hasn't done it since (though at the time that she was telling my OH, one of her children came out and also started doing it - she didn't correct him, so she couldn't have been THAT concerned..!) but next time I see her in the garden, I will mention it to her.

If they persist, I will have to find some way of stopping him from getting that close to the fence, or make the fence higher so they can't lean over it. It just feels a bit antisocial, we've got a fairly good relationship so far, so putting a great big fence up right by our back doors feels a bit... unneighbourly?

It's a bit of an awkward spot though, as where this is happening is right by our back door. It's a semi-detached house, our back doors open almost next to each other, and both houses are built onto a hill - so the fence between is is 6' tall at garden level, but when you're at the back door, at the top of the steps down to the garden, the fence is pretty low. It's separated by a big drop down in between the steps, and there's no way the dog would jump it, but it's perfectly situated for them to reach over and try to stroke him.

Again, just why would you reach over a fence into someone else's property and put your hand in the face of a growling dog? And then be surprised when it goes to nip you? Jeez.
 

SpringArising

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Is the dog generally aggressive/anti-sociable? I wouldn't feel comfortable in your situation, knowing a child could reach over and potentially be bitten.

I think your only option is to make sure no one can be hurt, and put up a taller fence (and explain to your neighbours why). You could put up a sign warning people but kids aren't likely to read it first and I'm not sure if that would make you liable should something happen.
 

ponyparty

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Is the dog generally aggressive/anti-sociable? I wouldn't feel comfortable in your situation, knowing a child could reach over and potentially be bitten.

I think your only option is to make sure no one can be hurt, and put up a taller fence (and explain to your neighbours why). You could put up a sign warning people but kids aren't likely to read it first and I'm not sure if that would make you liable should something happen.

No he's not aggressive not at all, but he is a terrier used historically for ratting and guarding (more as an alarm than anything else, no small noises or movements get past a Manchester terrier!). He does not like people (non-family/friends) invading his space - I don't think this is particularly unusual for any dog? He barks at visitors to the house initially, but quietens down very quickly if they follow my instructions and ignore him. Then once he's calm and has had a sniff of them, he wants to be their best friend. That is the nature of this breed - standoffish to begin with, but then once you're accepted into the circle they never forget and are so soft!

I think it's just because she is - unwittingly - winding him up. It's very threatening to a dog, leaning over from a great height and putting a hand towards their face. Just a shame that people are that clueless about dogs.

I am inclined to agree, I think I will have to put a higher fence up. It'll be ghastly and unsightly but if that's what it takes to keep my dog safe from their idiocy, then so be it :(
 

Pearlsasinger

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I would put up a higher fence, could you find something that is less solid, like trellis, so that it doesn't feel so enclosed but they can't get their hands through?

I would also try to introduce neighbour and dog away from the garden, so that she begins to get the idea that he is friendly but that he likes to have his garden to himself. I feel for you, we found neighbours strolling through our field yesterday, closely followed by one of the horses. That could have been very nasty.
 

ponyparty

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I would put up a higher fence, could you find something that is less solid, like trellis, so that it doesn't feel so enclosed but they can't get their hands through?

I would also try to introduce neighbour and dog away from the garden, so that she begins to get the idea that he is friendly but that he likes to have his garden to himself. I feel for you, we found neighbours strolling through our field yesterday, closely followed by one of the horses. That could have been very nasty.

Yeah I was thinking trellis - it mightn't have to be THAT high, just high enough to stop them from reaching him...

I have tried to get them to engage "properly" with him before, they've even been round here once and soundly ignored my pleas to ignore the dog until he was quiet. It would seem that dogs are easier to train than humans :-/

They don't think he isn't friendly - that's the issue, they don't take his growling seriously! I've never known him go for someone before, EVER, but I guess if you persist in putting your hand in a growling dog's face then eventually something will happen?
 

ihatework

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Can you not first just tell her & the kids not to do it or else you will be forced to put up a big fence (which you would rather not do). Surely if you explain that she is upsetting the dog and is risking an accident for both parties she wouldn’t be so dumb as to continue? You might need to be really blunt ...
 

ponyparty

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Can you not first just tell her & the kids not to do it or else you will be forced to put up a big fence (which you would rather not do). Surely if you explain that she is upsetting the dog and is risking an accident for both parties she wouldn’t be so dumb as to continue? You might need to be really blunt ...

Yeah, the plan is to speak to her when i next see her... i may well go ahead and put up trellis anyway though, he has a dog flap so can be out in the garden when I'm not around and the summer holidays have just started. Recipe for disaster if they ignore what I say to them.

Part of me wants to go, well go ahead and stick your hand over then and get bitten, it's my bloody garden and you shouldn't be putting your hand there! But it'd be my dog that would pay the consequences.

Think we just need to move house, to somewhere far, far away from any other humans :D interacting with them is becoming more tiresome to me on a daily basis...
 

CorvusCorax

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It's very threatening to a dog, leaning over from a great height and putting a hand towards their face. Just a shame that people are that clueless about dogs.

So true, can't believe people would be so stupid, and then encouraging a child to do the same is lunacy.

I was never done telling people where I used to live not to approach my dogs. It was an open yard so really hard to stop. Then they got upset when they were barked at.
'I love dogs', yeah, well I love George Clooney, but I bet if I walked up to him and started instigating a conversation and trying to touch him, he'd tell me to 'do one'.

Fence or section of dog run in the garden? Please don't allow him to bite, I know it might prove a point but you risk him being PTS. Even causing fear can be enough.
 

ponyparty

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Please don't allow him to bite, I know it might prove a point but you risk him being PTS. Even causing fear can be enough.

OMG I wasn't seriously suggesting that I would do that! Just it would serve them bloody right. In days gone by I bet they wouldn't have a leg to stand on, but nowadays with the change in Dangerous Dogs law I know it'd be me to blame.

Off to buy trellis and consider how to tackle the conversation without sounding like a grumpy old cow. Pretty sure I will sound arsey no matter how I say it to her, I can't hide my true feelings even if I say things nicely - my facial expression reveals it all!
 

Sandstone1

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I would be putting up a trellis fence with small holes that they cant get their hands through.
You could always get some climbing plants to make it look nicer.
Unfortunately, even if they think the dog may bite you can be in trouble.
Is it possible to keep the dog away from that part of the garden. I would be very worried about letting the dog have free access to the garden when you are not at home.
Too many stolen dogs let alone the potential for complaints about noisy dogs barking and in your case the danger of neighbours winding up dogs which could make the dog aggressive.
 

SpringArising

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No he's not aggressive not at all, but he is a terrier used historically for ratting and guarding (more as an alarm than anything else, no small noises or movements get past a Manchester terrier!). He does not like people (non-family/friends) invading his space - I don't think this is particularly unusual for any dog?

I think I've been spoilt by all the Staffies I've had, as I've never had one who would have been bothered by this - in fact they would be rolling over for belly rubs and trying to lick faces! Nothing against any other breeds, but I realise more and more that a LOT of other breeds are far less social and people-orientated.
 

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I wouldn't wait till you happen to see the neighbour, i would go round as explain you are concerned for her safety & the kids should hands wander where they are not supposed to be. I would also be checking any public liability insurance you might have, even though your dog is on private property you may be liable for any damage done.
 

WandaMare

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I would mention it to her and also back it up by writing in a email, sounds a bit formal but it would be a record of what's been said. People often take things more seriously when they see it in black and white.
 

TheOldTrout

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A trellis with climbing roses that they wouldn't want to put their hands through? Was going to suggest a clematis (that's what we planted, more for privacy than anything else) but roses have thorns :)
 

kimberleigh

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I would explain, politely but very firmly, that their actions are making your dog extremely uncomfortable and if they really can't listen to your wishes and keep their hands on their own side of the fence, that you will be erecting a taller fence to ensure that your dog isnt being frightened by them any more.

People are bloody idiots!
 

Auslander

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My dear departed grandpa had a similar issue with a neighbour - but she was feeding his dogs. One day, he was on his knees, weeding the flower bed, when a hand came over the wall above his head. He gently took hold of said hand, and stroked it lovingly!

Problem solved. Neighbour didn't speak to him ever again though!
 

D66

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My dear departed grandpa had a similar issue with a neighbour - but she was feeding his dogs. One day, he was on his knees, weeding the flower bed, when a hand came over the wall above his head. He gently took hold of said hand, and stroked it lovingly!

Problem solved. Neighbour didn't speak to him ever again though!

Win, Win!
 

{97702}

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I’m really not neighbourly - I’d tell her in no uncertain terms to keep her bloody hands to herself and leave my dog alone.....

After that I would add trellis to the top of the fence

I would be tempted to top the trellis with razor wire but even for me that is a little extreme ;)
 

JenniD

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What a stupid woman!! I'd talk to her too and if she doesn't or won't 'take it on board' add trellis....just a thought though....if she's sticking her hand through/over the fence is she effectively trespassing on your property?.....therefore if the dog was to nip her then that would be her fault! I think though that if he were to bite, nothing would happen because he's on his own property! If you go to a Zoo and stuff your hand through the chain link fence to pat a hyena and he went for you, whose fault would it be? Yours! I'd see her first and if she does it again she's already been approached by you warning her of what might happen. You'd have to be a sandwich sort of a picnic if you were pre warned!
 

Sandstone1

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What a stupid woman!! I'd talk to her too and if she doesn't or won't 'take it on board' add trellis....just a thought though....if she's sticking her hand through/over the fence is she effectively trespassing on your property?.....therefore if the dog was to nip her then that would be her fault! I think though that if he were to bite, nothing would happen because he's on his own property! If you go to a Zoo and stuff your hand through the chain link fence to pat a hyena and he went for you, whose fault would it be? Yours! I'd see her first and if she does it again she's already been approached by you warning her of what might happen. You'd have to be a sandwich sort of a picnic if you were pre warned!

Sorry but thats not true. Even if your dog is on its own property and bites you can be liable.
 

Sandstone1

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What a stupid woman!! I'd talk to her too and if she doesn't or won't 'take it on board' add trellis....just a thought though....if she's sticking her hand through/over the fence is she effectively trespassing on your property?.....therefore if the dog was to nip her then that would be her fault! I think though that if he were to bite, nothing would happen because he's on his own property! If you go to a Zoo and stuff your hand through the chain link fence to pat a hyena and he went for you, whose fault would it be? Yours! I'd see her first and if she does it again she's already been approached by you warning her of what might happen. You'd have to be a sandwich sort of a picnic if you were pre warned!

Sorry but thats not true. Even if your dog is on its own property and bites you can be liable.
 

Cinnamontoast

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What a complete PITA! I would have serious words about how she’s upsetting the dog, surely she’d rather not do that? Definitely trellis and something spiked in a pot. Pyracantha is very spiky.
 

JenniD

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Sorry but thats not true. Even if your dog is on its own property and bites you can be liable.
yes, I can see where you're coming from and I can understand that one could be liable if the person bitten had been invited onto the property where the dog lived, but it seems a bit extreme and unfair that the same penalty exists if the person bitten is on a different property. You'd think that the risk was entirely theirs wouldn't you?
 

CorvusCorax

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The legislation was open to consultation before it was amended, we discussed it on here.
O guess not enough people responded in the negative to that part :/
 

Pearlsasinger

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The legislation was open to consultation before it was amended, we discussed it on here.
O guess not enough people responded in the negative to that part :/

I thought that if there was an implied invitation e.g. gateway unlocked with path to front door/etterbox, it is reasonable to expect visitors to approach but if dog was in back garden with no gate and no access to front door, dog was protected.
 
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