Neighbour''s dog

hardtimes

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Any suggestions as what I can do about my neighbour''s dog? It regularly escapes and chases my ponies, terrifying them. She (neighbour) is totally unconcerned, just saying that the dog will not hurt them. I am worried that they will run through the fence and injure themselves, or escape onto the road. This has happened three times in the last week. Any ideas, please?
 

LHIS

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How hard have you tried in speaking to her? By this I mean have you explained your concerns etc? Has she seen his behaviour chasing the ponies?
It might make you unpopular, by you could always report it to your local warden.
 

EQUIDAE

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Call the dog warden and get them to collect it - a couple of times of her having to pay to collect the dog might change her mind...
 

Wagtail

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You need a horse that chases dogs. My old mare was like this and also one of my liveries. If I were you I would have a very firm word with your neighbour telling them that they would be liable for any vets bills should they occur and that you will report it to the police if it happens again.
 

Mrs G

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I'm outraged on your behalf OP. Not acceptable in the slightest; if you can't make it clear to this woman that her dog could quite easily hurt your horses, report it and get dog warden involved (someone videoing it for evidence is a good idea). Do it sooner rather than later.
 

Merlod

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Next time it's out chasing your horses, catch it and lock it in a stable. When she can't find the bleddy thing tell her maybe it got kicked and she's welcome to walk your fields looking for it. Might shock her into thinking twice.

Or as above, call dog warden and get footage if you can.
 
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hardtimes

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Thank you everybody for your replies. I really wish I had a horse that would kick this dog, just enough to hurt it a bit and be expensive for owner!! I have spoken to her quite heatedly on every occasion, but she doesn't seem to understand how easily horses will panic. I am considering taking it to a stray dogs home if it comes again, I don't think we have a dog warden here. Locking it in a stable sounds a good idea, might just try that.
Thank you everybody, it's good to know that other people can see that this is a genuine problem, and I am not a neurotic owner!!
 

Dry Rot

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You have free range poultry, don't you? They are 'livestock'. Beg, borrow, or steal a dead one from someone, entire with feathers on, and hang it on your neighbour's gate in a carrier bag with a print out of the legislation (Animals Act?) that states an owner has the right to shoot the dog to protect livestock.

That's what I finally had to do after my city boy neighbour had ignored all the hints, visits from the dog warden, etc. It worked -- and my neighbour now gives me a wide berth! (I never liked him anyway :)).
 

alliwantforchristmas

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I would print out this http://www.bhs.org.uk/safety-and-accidents/common-incidents/dog-attacks and highlight Dogs (Protection of Livestock Act 1953) and pop it through her door, or give it to her in person and ask her to read it, as it explains your concerns, why the horses are scared and may injure themselves and that she may be held accountable if your horses injure themselves. whether or not horses are classed as livestock is a grey area, but the fact that this is on the BHS website may be enough to worry her. if it doesn't, you need to find out who is accountable for dogs in your area - info will be on your local council website - in our area it is a huntsperson who will come and take a stray or wandering dog as they did away with our dog warden, but there will be someone official who deals with dogs. Then if you can catch it I wouldn't hesitate to try to get it into kennels where she will have to pay to get it out. it's not that easy to get a dogs home to just 'take' a straying dog.
 

Luci07

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Put the conversations and dates in writing in a letter (so there is a formal record). Check the liability if you were able to prove her dogs had chased your horses out of the field. Yes, I know as horse owners we have legal liability but wondered if there could be a case if a dog could be proven to have chased it out.

Then I would catch it and get the dog warden to collect. The above means she can't claim this was a first time offence and you were acting unreasonably.
 

MagicMelon

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I had my next door neighbours dog always coming over for a visit, a big dog too who was silent in its approach so when it leapt out of the undergrowth when I was outside in the dark in winter it scared the *rap out of me! And although the dog didnt enter my horses field (that I noticed), it still spooked them when it ran about along the road along the field edge and we almost hit it in the car a few times so it was a nuisance. I basically just kept texting them everytime it was out, I'd be friendly about it but still say things like how he'd scared the life out of me. It kept happening until I simply said really nice to them that I'd really appreciate it if they didnt let the dog wonder off loose as I was in the process of backing a young horse and didnt want to get chucked off with her spooking! If you turn it round, saying something like your horse is sensitive and liable to spooking etc. then she might listen. I also caught the dog a few times and returned it to their door which I think also gets the point across, mainly because passing cyclists and drivers would bring the dog to my door thinking it was mine! ;)

I haven't seen the dog out for a long time as shortly after my chat, they fenced in their garden :) I was horrified when last week they arrived at MY door with MY dog who had escaped out of my back garden (someone forgot to shut the gate!)!
 

touchstone

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Horses are classed as livestock in this situation, my dad once shot a Doberman that was continually chasing and attacking the horses, as long as the police are informed within three days I think it is, then the livestock owner is well within their rights.

I'd be inclined to tell her that and call the dog warden to have a word.
 

Sukistokes2

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I would report to the police via101 , I was recently chased while out riding. This comes under the dangerous dogs act. The local PSOs will then go around and talk to them, which was what happened in my case. The fact is the dogs are out of control, you do not need evidence or film, just ring and report. Once it has a crime ref and it's on record if it happens again and again further action can be taken under the dangerous dogs act. When people are blind to the dangers then sometimes it takes a shock to snap them out of it. Your horses deserve better as do the dogs. Shocking that people are suggesting shooting them, they are not at fault, the owners are.
 

shadowboy

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The reason it's a grey area is most of our horses are not farmed as per https://www.gov.uk/guidance/keeping-horses-on-farms

So therefore are not livestock. I remember doing a horse question as my option research during uni (albeit 13 years ago now so things may have changed) when something similar used to happen to us we used to keep the dog in a stable and text the owner to knock on the door and collect it- helped her to realise how often and the nuisance of asking for him back stopped it in the end.
 

touchstone

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But they are classed as livestock under the protection of livestock act 1953, which includes sheep, cattle, swine, horses and domestic poultry, but not game birds.
 

shadowboy

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It's a grey area, so for example one can't use their land for a rugged horse and claim it as agricultural, as soon as you rug the horse or ride it round the field the horse is being used in an equestrian manner. That's where it becomes tricky. My understanding is that horses in the generic term are in the statute so that they are generally covered and then one would later have to argue if they were horses in respect of livestock.

So you'd need to legally battle whether the 'shooter' had a right to shoot the dog as they were genuine livestock. That's the case I had to do some years ago.

Whilst this isn't really relevant it highlights the difference between livestock in an agricultural setting. Like I said this is my old understanding- I haven't studied law for 13 years now so cases may have changed and I may be very wrong.



The only equestrian “use” that falls within the agricultural definition is:- producing horses for slaughter, working horses on the land (e.g. ploughing with horses which is a rare sight today), and turning horses out for grazing only.



The other example I remember is fallen 'stock' so livestock cannot be burned or buried on a farmers land legally but a horse can be buried. This is likely why there is confusion over the status of a horse. In Wales and Scotland I *think* only pet horses can be buried?
 

EQUIDAE

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The other example I remember is fallen 'stock' so livestock cannot be burned or buried on a farmers land legally but a horse can be buried. This is likely why there is confusion over the status of a horse. In Wales and Scotland I *think* only pet horses can be buried?

Planning permission has to be sought to allow burial in a field and the passport has to have been stamped 'not for human consumption'. If the passport hasn't been stamped as such the horses could be argued to have the possiblity to be slaughter or grazing animals (whether they are or not). The law hasn't actually been challenged since the change in the passporting regulations and I would love to see how the precedent goes. If anyone found themselves in the situation and needed legal representation my other half would probably bite their hand off as he'd love a nitty gritty case like that.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

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Tell her that you are entitled to shoot the dog if he chases your ponies, and that you will hold her responsible for all costs incurred, including the cost of the bullet and marksman.
Find farmer with a gun and ask him to wander about in front of her windows!
 

Dry Rot

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It's a grey area, so for example one can't use their land for a rugged horse and claim it as agricultural, as soon as you rug the horse or ride it round the field the horse is being used in an equestrian manner. That's where it becomes tricky. My understanding is that horses in the generic term are in the statute so that they are generally covered and then one would later have to argue if they were horses in respect of livestock.

So you'd need to legally battle whether the 'shooter' had a right to shoot the dog as they were genuine livestock. That's the case I had to do some years ago.

Whilst this isn't really relevant it highlights the difference between livestock in an agricultural setting. Like I said this is my old understanding- I haven't studied law for 13 years now so cases may have changed and I may be very wrong.



The only equestrian “use” that falls within the agricultural definition is:- producing horses for slaughter, working horses on the land (e.g. ploughing with horses which is a rare sight today), and turning horses out for grazing only.



The other example I remember is fallen 'stock' so livestock cannot be burned or buried on a farmers land legally but a horse can be buried. This is likely why there is confusion over the status of a horse. In Wales and Scotland I *think* only pet horses can be buried?

I think the definition of "livestock" under the Agriculture (Scotland) Acts includes anything kept for wool, hides, meat, or for working the land. That definition may be incomplete but Shetlands, Highlands, and Clydesdales are usually assumed to be "livestock" up here. I breed Highland ponie and train and sell them for extracting culled deer, but if push came to shove I would always argue that the "rejects" have to be sold for something and that would be for riding!

Generally, the products and by products of a commercial operation (in Scotland anyay) have to be disposed of to an authorised outlet which would be a licensed knackery or incinerator, but as you say pets can be buried on your own land subject to various conditions like away from water courses, drains and ditches, etc. There are also exceptions for remote areas. So the skin and gralloch of a deer shot on the open hill can be left to the elements but offal from a licenced game dealer has to go to a licensed knackery, etc. The law is quite complicated. I have a little knowledge from feeding a large number of dogs on by products direct from the abattoir. A lawyer would no doubt be rubbing his hands with glee! The veiled threat is by far the most effective way of dealing with dogs out of control.
 

Des-rocks

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Is the dog always coming onto your land at the same place? If so you could block his entry route with stock fencing, not ideal for horses but saves you falling out with your neighbour, and no one really wants to shoot a dog do they?
 

fatpiggy

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I would report to the police via101 , I was recently chased while out riding. This comes under the dangerous dogs act. The local PSOs will then go around and talk to them, which was what happened in my case. The fact is the dogs are out of control, you do not need evidence or film, just ring and report. Once it has a crime ref and it's on record if it happens again and again further action can be taken under the dangerous dogs act. When people are blind to the dangers then sometimes it takes a shock to snap them out of it. Your horses deserve better as do the dogs. Shocking that people are suggesting shooting them, they are not at fault, the owners are.

You were lucky! My horse was attacked, bitten multiple times and her exercise boots were ripped off her legs in pieces and the police wouldn't even take my name and address. The local wildlife wardens were much more helpful and tried to identify the dog but were unable to. Mind you it did live on a particularly notorious council estate where lots of villains/drug barons/general scum reside.
 

Cocorules

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Is the dog always coming onto your land at the same place? If so you could block his entry route with stock fencing, not ideal for horses but saves you falling out with your neighbour, and no one really wants to shoot a dog do they?

This. In my case I have no option as I am responsible for the fencing alongside a bridlepath which has lots of dog walkers. I have stock fencing on the outside and a separate post and rail fence inside. Worth it for the peace of mind. If the dog is only coming out through a small area it should not be too expensive and it is easy to do.

Obviously it is your neighbours responsibility to keep their dog on their own land and off your land but if you have asked them to fix their fencing and you do not want to fall out with them, it may be easier to dog proof your side. Certainly it is a lot less hassle.
 
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