Nervous Broncer

[Pink Gorilla]

I was just wondering how any young horse producers would advise a wimpy rider on how to tackle this issue? I can take my horse on hacks in company and to group clinics. I can also ride him in private lessons at arenas which are surrounded by turnout paddocks with other horses in. But if I hire an arena alone, or go to a clinic as a private lesson with no other horses turned out in sight, my horse gets trigger stacked and broncs if I attempt to canter or jump. How can I get him to relax being in an arena alone without having to sit out the broncing?

 

[shortstuff99]

Get a rider who is braver to do this part of the training for you would be my answer.

 

[Barton Bounty]

I was just wondering how any young horse producers would advise a wimpy rider on how to tackle this issue? I can take my horse on hacks in company and to group clinics. I can also ride him in private lessons at arenas which are surrounded by turnout paddocks with other horses in. But if I hire an arena alone, or go to a clinic as a private lesson with no other horses turned out in sight, my horse gets trigger stacked and broncs if I attempt to canter or jump. How can I get him to relax being in an arena alone without having to sit out the broncing?

Im afraid it was persistancy for me, My horse is a broncer, if he feels stressed or afraid he broncs, the important thing for me was not getting off and just sitting quietly , gentle pats and talk to him while he calms down , then nudge him on

 

[TPO]

It really means dealing with it on the ground, then walk etc. As you've said it's trigger stacking that's causing the mental breakdown with faster work.

Warwick Schiller talks a lot about it and has a series of videos to address it. I'm not sure if they are on YouTube or just his subscription service. He did have a series, something like Principles of the Horse, that was on YouTube.

But yeah back to basics to build confidence before expecting him to be ok doing productive work away from home

 

[Pink Gorilla]

It really means dealing with it on the ground, then walk etc. As you've said it's trigger stacking that's causing the mental breakdown with faster work.

Warwick Schiller talks a lot about it and has a series of videos to address it. I'm not sure if they are on YouTube or just his subscription service. He did have a series, something like Principles of the Horse, that was on YouTube.

But yeah back to basics to build confidence before expecting him to be ok doing productive work away from home

Thank you. So would you suggest going to arena hires just to do in hand work at first? I love WS. I will see if I can find his trigger stacking videos

 

[TPO]

Thank you. So would you suggest going to arena hires just to do in hand work at first? I love WS. I will see if I can find his trigger stacking videos

Yes, if the issue is being alone then best to address that from the ground and then ridden rather than go to an arena specifically to canter/jump at this stage.

I'm not familiar with all WS stuff but I know that there are a few videos addressing trigger stacking. It was part of his 10 commandments type thing; trigger stacking was called something to do with rabbits if that helps at all?!

He also advocates things like matching steps to build confidence and work to do to get th4 horse focused on you and not be wanting back to friends.

All sounds very simple but it's never as easy as they make it look in the videos!

I would perhaps practice whatever techniques at home before an arena hire. Sometimes it also helps to have a set warm up, some horse relax into the routine when away from home.

TRT might be worth a look too. Zero experience but mainly through here I've heard of people having a lot of success with it

 

[Caol Ila]

You say the horse starts bucking when you begin to canter and jump? I'm sure he's communicating with you that he's uncomfortable being alone in a strange arena long before you canter. I would work in said arena either in-hand or ridden at walk and trot (all of the above) until the horse tells you that he's becoming more comfortable with his environment. When he isn't stressed, jumping and cantering won't stack the trigger.

Warwick Schiller, like the others have suggested, is really good at explaining what to look for and offering exercises that will help the horse focus on you.

Are you having lessons during these arena hires? I totally get how being in the midst of a lesson, with an instructor telling you to man up and ride through it and make him do what you want, makes it feel like it's impossible to slow down or help your horse by asking the question in a different way. I know the methods that Schiller et. al. espouse -- I use them every day -- but I found myself wrestling with my horse (who was afraid of one side of the indoor arena) because I was in a lesson and I got sucked into the whole dynamic of doing what the pro was telling me to do: somehow use my seat and leg powerfully enough to make 400kg of Highland pony, built like a brick sh1thouse, go somewhere he really did not want to go. It sucked. It wasn't me or how I ride or how I develop my relationship with my horses.

If this is in the context of a lesson and they are telling you to just kick him over the fence, hire the arena yourself and take it as calmly and slowly as your horse needs.

 

[scats]

I had a horse who was the opposite, fine on his own but would bronc spectacularly in company.
Could you build up to working him alone- go into the arena in hand or lunge, maybe then progress to just doing 10 minutes walk and leaving while he’s still chilled out. Then next time do a bit of trot and then leave on a good note etc. So he gets used to being on his own and not worrying. Then introduce the canter again when being in the arena alone is something he has been doing for weeks. But again, start small. If you get a transition and a few strides with no broncking, little pat and finish on a good note.

 

[Carrottom]

It might be worth looking at Steve Young Horsemanship videos on you tube. Some of his methods are similar to Warwick Schiller's but I think the presentation is much more simple.

 

[Barton Bounty]

It might be worth looking at Steve Young Horsemanship videos on you tube. Some of his methods are similar to Warwick Schiller's but I think the presentation is much more simple.

I like steve too

 

[Pink Gorilla]

That's great thanks everyone! Yes usually when it's happened I've been at a jumping clinic with only a 30-45min time slot between other people. So I havent really had time to fully settle him before we have to canter or pop over the first jump. Will definitely hire alone and take it steady then until its not such a big deal for him and maybe revisit the jumping clinics next year.

 

[Hallo2012]

my youngster was dreadful alone to start with, worse if he could see other horses in the distance or hear them etc.

we had lots of panicky napping, shouting (he is entire so more inclined to shout!), reversing and broncing and spinning.

i will say am brave and do a lot of youngsters so this is old hat, and that riding forward on a long ish rein with lots of pats was the only way to really talk him down off the cliff in the moment but that i have also been having TRT lessons which has put more skills in my box to deal with his anxiety on the ground as well as under saddle when i first get on,and given us a real routine to diffuse the situation so i would say look at TRT but also you may need a pro rider initially.

its not just a case of repeating the situation as you can build up a negative association, its about making each situation positive so he starts to find the fun in it.

 

[Leandy]

What happens if you lunge him first until he is more relaxed and settled, and then get on? If that doesn't work then I would be paying another jockey to quietly but determinedly ride through it a few times until he is more settled.

 

[paddi22]

how young is the horse?

 

[Pink Gorilla]

He's 7 so not that young and I feel I can't use it as an excuse anymore. But although he goes out regularly, he hasn't done a lot of high adrenaline stuff.

 

[Leandy]

That's great thanks everyone! Yes usually when it's happened I've been at a jumping clinic with only a 30-45min time slot between other people. So I havent really had time to fully settle him before we have to canter or pop over the first jump. Will definitely hire alone and take it steady then until its not such a big deal for him and maybe revisit the jumping clinics next year.

Completely agree with that approach. It sounds as though it is all happening too quickly for him to cope with so he is becoming overwhelmed and anxious. It may be that the clinics you have been going to have been too challenging for his state of mind and capabilities. I would take it back within his comfort zone and break it up into easy steps rather than expecting to get on and start a jump lesson immediately in an unfamiliar place under time pressure. Take more time with each step and make sure he's comfortable and relaxed with what is happening before asking him to face more next time. So go to arena hires and just walk or trot or flatwork only, whatever he is comfortable with and stop whilst he is still relaxed. Over time build it up to canter work, then walking over a pole or two, then when he's happy with this a cross pole or two then build up slowly, each time stopping before he gets anxious and overwhelmed. Take him out and about regularly and don't challenge him with new stuff until it all becomes routine. It may take a few times for him to settle or weeks or months but just keep going so he builds confidence and you can gently push the boundaries to take in new things. We have one which sounds similar, a highly intelligent but very sensitive type of horse who anticipates and worries about new things. We have found that it is all in the preparation, don't try to wing it with a new challenge even if you think that a "normal" horse should be fine, take the time in preparation to build confidence. Don't throw them in the deep end with surprises. A year on and our horse now behaves in a much more "normal" way and is much less the hyper sensitive stress pot, it just needed the extra time.

 

[LEC]

I think it’s a time and no expectations thing to teach and keep the relaxation. If you can walk round the arena on a long rein - great. Next time if you can walk over a single pole on a long rein - great. Warwick would say on a horse that struggles with anxiety hacking don’t have any expectations if you get 20 yards outside the gate great, then repeat to 20 yards. Come back next day and see what horse offers it might be 10 yards it might be 30 yards.

 

[Red-1]

Completely agree with that approach. It sounds as though it is all happening too quickly for him to cope with so he is becoming overwhelmed and anxious. It may be that the clinics you have been going to have been too challenging for his state of mind and capabilities. I would take it back within his comfort zone and break it up into easy steps rather than expecting to get on and start a jump lesson immediately in an unfamiliar place under time pressure. Take more time with each step and make sure he's comfortable and relaxed with what is happening before asking him to face more next time. So go to arena hires and just walk or trot or flatwork only, whatever he is comfortable with and stop whilst he is still relaxed. Over time build it up to canter work, then walking over a pole or two, then when he's happy with this a cross pole or two then build up slowly, each time stopping before he gets anxious and overwhelmed. Take him out and about regularly and don't challenge him with new stuff until it all becomes routine. It may take a few times for him to settle or weeks or months but just keep going so he builds confidence and you can gently push the boundaries to take in new things. We have one which sounds similar, a highly intelligent but very sensitive type of horse who anticipates and worries about new things. We have found that it is all in the preparation, don't try to wing it with a new challenge even if you think that a "normal" horse should be fine, take the time in preparation to build confidence. Don't throw them in the deep end with surprises. A year on and our horse now behaves in a much more "normal" way and is much less the hyper sensitive stress pot, it just needed the extra time.

This is me with my baby horse. He is naturally placid but also not the bravest. Many, many lessons we have gone for a jumping lesson but then had a lesson on trot figure 8s. Because, that day, that place, that is where he is at. We have done a few shows now, but at the local venue he knows well. We will do many more arena hires, at many venues, before expecting him to go somewhere strange and just go in and jump.

His advantage is that, he may be slow to get into things, but once he has learned it, it seems to stay learned!

 

[maya2008]

A stage has been missed in the backing process, which is causing these problems. When teaching a horse to hack, it is also necessary to teach them to hack alone. This is a process for most horses. You start by going in front of the friend, then once happy with that, friend drops further and further behind until out of sight, then you can either split up on different trails and meet again a little while later, or do a short loop back to the friend. The short loops gradually get longer until you can do the whole thing solo. At that point it’s hack, hack, hack to build confidence, not just in the wider world but in the rider. I have always hacked my young horses solo for a while before trying solo arena hire and it is never a problem then. They are used to being on their own.

At the moment, my son is training a little Welsh A who he backed mid June. This is the first project he’s done mostly himself, so we are going slowly. Going first has been the focus for the last few weeks, until pony no longer cared if we were in sight. At that point he was happily disappearing into the distance ahead of us, so this week he started going for short loops on his own. I taught him what to do if pony got scared and planted, and he’s ready now to start small rides from the yard solo. They could then hack to a nearby arena that they have visited in company, and progress to solo arena hire as needed. I would expect him to need to lead pony round at new arena hires at first, and to stay long enough for a positive experience but not necessarily the full time.

In your position, the best thing for both of you would probably be to get an experienced rider to do this for you. Teaching young horses is 90% feel. You need to take the next step at exactly the right time, reading them and the whole situation carefully all the time. You also need, as a rider, to be very ‘sticky’ no matter what they do, but also supremely calm. If they get scared, they need you to give them confidence - the last thing they need is a rider who then becomes scared/upset and adds fuel to the metaphorical fire!