Nervous Weanling

Pink Gorilla

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So my new weanling is uber nervous. I have been using the usual recommended approach and retreat, followed by touch and retreat methods, as well as just pottering around him doing jobs/sitting around lots. He's still very nervous. Has anyone ever tried using positive reinforcement like clicker training with particularly nervous babies? I'm very apprehensive to try it, as I don't want to create issues and it never would have worked with my previous baby who was very bold and pushy by nature. But I'm conscious of getting him handleable enough for farrier and wearing a rug, headcollar etc asap.
 

Marigold4

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I have a very nervous weanling too and have used the same methods you describe. I asked a horse behaviourist to come and help me for the day and that helped a lot to see things from the weanling's point of view. She had had her feet done before I got her and we think they must have twitched her as she is very nervous about her ears and putting on her headcollar. I have found food is my friend with this filly. She's prepared to do a deal: she gets treats before and after putting on her headcollar. 8 weeks later and I can catch her in the field. I also spend time with her in the stable and stroke her from a distance with a feather duster (horse behaviourist's idea!) - which she very much likes! Not got as far as her legs yet though. I rejected the idea of clicker training as I don't really understand it and have a sort instinctive dislike of it for some reason.
 

Pink Gorilla

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can you supply a bit more info? breed, where he came from eg a sale, a stud, from somewhere with other horses. How is he kept, are you trying to work in a field, in a stable? are you bucket feeding him, is he kept with others?
Kwpn, came from a small stud, but was the only foal this year, working in stable mainly, yes he does have a bucket feed and he is out with two young adult horses in the day time. He follows them in at tea time.
 

Pink Gorilla

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I have a very nervous weanling too and have used the same methods you describe. I asked a horse behaviourist to come and help me for the day and that helped a lot to see things from the weanling's point of view. She had had her feet done before I got her and we think they must have twitched her as she is very nervous about her ears and putting on her headcollar. I have found food is my friend with this filly. She's prepared to do a deal: she gets treats before and after putting on her headcollar. 8 weeks later and I can catch her in the field. I also spend time with her in the stable and stroke her from a distance with a feather duster (horse behaviourist's idea!) - which she very much likes! Not got as far as her legs yet though. I rejected the idea of clicker training as I don't really understand it and have a sort instinctive dislike of it for some reason.
Ah yes ive seen the feather duster in Sarah Weston's (I think) book. Wasn't sure if it would scare him though. Although I'm pleased I'm not the only one with one that's slow to come round then. How are you keeping yours? In, out, rugged, unrugged?
 

Jenko109

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So is he not halter broken?

I always start by getting them well used to hard feed. I will use a round scoop of feed to coax them with while I touch them on the face with the halter. I will then put the nose of the halter over the scoop so they put their nose through before putting the head of the halter over their ears. I have enough slack on the halter that you do not have to touch the ears at this stage.

I do not use a headcollar early on as I need two hands to put a headcollar on. I can put a halter on with one hand.

Once halter broken, I find they come on much, much quicker than trying to do anything with them loose.
 

paddy555

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Kwpn, came from a small stud, but was the only foal this year, working in stable mainly, yes he does have a bucket feed and he is out with two young adult horses in the day time. He follows them in at tea time.
what we do with the uber nervous semi ferals is sit in the corner of the stable with a bucket of feed between your knees so he has to put his head into it to eat.
obviously he is a lot bigger than a feral so be careful if he is the sort to panic and boot you. Otherwise this method does work well. . (you can use this method to put a headcollar on him) then gradually clasp the side of the bucket with your hands and let his face brush them then move to a gentle scratch.

Ah yes ive seen the feather duster in Sarah Weston's (I think) book. Wasn't sure if it would scare him though. Although I'm pleased I'm not the only one with one that's slow to come round then. How are you keeping yours? In, out, rugged, unrugged?
I do this but I tape a glove onto a garden cane and then just walk around the stable touching the horse as I go past to start with. I don't go in with the purpose of using it on him as an exercise but purely letting it touch as I wander around so he is touched from a distance. Having done that and then having deliberately touched him all over next step is to put the glove on me and touch him.

I have found with the nervous ones you actually have to "do" something very often rather than just be nice to it and hope it comes nearer as it gets more used to you.
I would go into the stable every day, or more often if you can, doing these very distant "training" exercises.
 

Marigold4

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Ah yes ive seen the feather duster in Sarah Weston's (I think) book. Wasn't sure if it would scare him though. Although I'm pleased I'm not the only one with one that's slow to come round then. How are you keeping yours? In, out, rugged, unrugged?
Mine is in at night, out during the day with another foal and two adults. She's a very fluffy Welsh B so no rugs. Mine has been VERY slow to come round. She does follow me round the field now though. I think we underestimate the trauma of being taken away from mum and the only environment they have ever known. I agree with Paddy555 - you have to actively DO something that challenges their wish to keep away every day rather than just being nice.
 

Pink Gorilla

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Yes so he has got a headcollar on, it's a breakaway one and the breeder got it on using the feed scoop method mentioned above. But he's not keen on having it on and off though. So I thought I'd just leave it on for now while we build a friendship. Then I'll work on the on and off of the headcollar some more.....But I've not been clipping a rope to him very often when I try to work with him in the stable, I've been leaving him loose. I stroke him a little, can only get to front end after a bit of approach and retreat work. But I'm wondering if I'd make more progress if I held him with a lead rope, so he can't keep disappearing? I do try to be the one to leave first, but i often wonder if I should do it with a leadrope instead of loose, so he can't keep avoiding me.
 

paddy555

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Yes so he has got a headcollar on, it's a breakaway one and the breeder got it on using the feed scoop method mentioned above. But he's not keen on having it on and off though. So I thought I'd just leave it on for now while we build a friendship. Then I'll work on the on and off of the headcollar some more.....But I've not been clipping a rope to him very often when I try to work with him in the stable, I've been leaving him loose. I stroke him a little, can only get to front end after a bit of approach and retreat work. But I'm wondering if I'd make more progress if I held him with a lead rope, so he can't keep disappearing? I do try to be the one to leave first, but i often wonder if I should do it with a leadrope instead of loose, so he can't keep avoiding me.
so if he panics and fights what then? he pulls away, you chase him around the stable to grab the rope and you have another problem to deal with

let him come to you, put his head into the bucket and then start to touch him. He will run away from the bucket in your lap the first few times but slowly he will realise you have something nice to offer (grub) and will want to stay with you. Then he won't keep disappearing istead he will start coming to you.
 

Pink Gorilla

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so if he panics and fights what then? he pulls away, you chase him around the stable to grab the rope and you have another problem to deal with

let him come to you, put his head into the bucket and then start to touch him. He will run away from the bucket in your lap the first few times but slowly he will realise you have something nice to offer (grub) and will want to stay with you. Then he won't keep disappearing istead he will start coming to you.
I've not explained myself very well. He is halter trained already, just not super confident with it yet. He is lead trained, so doesn't panic on the leadrope and can be lead round the stable well. He knows how to give to pressure, so is past the completely feral stage. I can stroke his face, neck, chest and shoulders. My point was that I'm struggling to progress past that point, as he's still very nervous and we've been at this same stage for weeks. So to be able to move on to touching his back, legs, hind quarters etc I didn't know whether keeping him loose or on the lead rein was best during our short training sessions. Or giving him positive reinforcement in the form of treats to relax him. He's just a very tense type, but not completely unhandled/feral.
 

ihatework

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I've not explained myself very well. He is halter trained already, just not super confident with it yet. He is lead trained, so doesn't panic on the leadrope and can be lead round the stable well. He knows how to give to pressure, so is past the completely feral stage. I can stroke his face, neck, chest and shoulders. My point was that I'm struggling to progress past that point, as he's still very nervous and we've been at this same stage for weeks. So to be able to move on to touching his back, legs, hind quarters etc I didn't know whether keeping him loose or on the lead rein was best during our short training sessions. Or giving him positive reinforcement in the form of treats to relax him. He's just a very tense type, but not completely unhandled/feral.

If you can’t easily get a halter on and off then he is not halter broken!

First thing I would be doing is leading him behind his mates when going in/out. I’d also get him 100% with the halter going on/off in the stable. Then I’d spend time making sure he is being comfortable being touched all over - do this in the stable with a slip lead on. Go with him if he moves away and only release the touch when he stops trying to escape it.

ETA, for hind legs ets something like a length of pipe insulation is good for getting them used to touch while you hold the front end and stay out of the firing zone!
 

paddy555

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. My point was that I'm struggling to progress past that point, as he's still very nervous and we've been at this same stage for weeks.
from what you have written I wouldn't see you have got to that point. It can sometimes take a very long time with the more nervous to gain confidence.

have you taught him to lower his head on command? that would be a good exercise to teach him.
standing at his near side your L hand on the nose at noseband level and R hand just behind the poll, rock your hands and tell him down. Takes a while but it will teach him to relax.

I would teach this sort of nervous nellie using Tteam bodywork methods. The aim would be to have a horse I could walk up to in the stable, lowered it's head on command and I could walk all the way around it touching it. Once it could do that then we could move to the next stage.
 

Marigold4

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I'm at the same stage as yours. She will have her headcollar on but doesn't really like it. She leads really well though. In the stable I am using the feather duster to stroke her over her back, up her neck, touch her ears and as soon as she brings her ears back to meet the duster I roll it back and away. This process has reduced her sensitivity to having her head touched - but slowly. I do this all without a lead rein or headcollar on. When I stop she comes over to me for more. Starting on legs soon - she hates having these touched but desperately needs feet done.

have you tried a treat before and after putting headcollar on so he associates it with something nice? Works for mine.
 

SantaVera

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Can you find something kind and sympathetic to help you who is very knowledgeable with youngsters? It reads like you have bitten off more than you can chew with this foal.
 
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paddy555

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this shows you the principles of dealing with tense and nervous horses. All have the same problems of being tense and nervous and you can adapt it for your own horse. Lots of free u tube videos about the TTouch method. Lots of other info on google about her methods.
 

maya2008

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It takes as long as it takes. My advice is multiple times a day, short and sweet sessions. Focus on getting headcollar on/off reliably (I leave the initial one on, then get one with a clip under the chin - undo clip and secure, slip headcollar on easily with one hand that way, with a carrot held in the nose bit so they have to reach through the headcollar for the carrot, then barely notice you getting it over the ears. Then repeat to get it off - hold long bit of carrot, move headcollar back and forth over ears then off while they try to break some off with their teeth so they don’t run back/toss head/scare themselves…gradually reduce the treats as things get easier). Reliable leading next, then hold pony on rope while you gradually touch all over and finally picking up feet (with someone else holding at first!).

I use food, heavily, and I find it works - but I am also very strict about boundaries around treats so they never learn to mug anyone or bite. They always have to earn it, and I do click or say ‘good’ or whatever before the treat so they know not to ask for it until the trigger sound/word (clicking is easier but one of mine is reactive to clicks and as they age ‘good’ is better because I want to click to get them to move!).

It can take a while, so don’t give up. Four months seems to be the key for the worst of them - and once that headcollar goes on/off easily and the leading is sussed, you’re most of the way there.
 

blitznbobs

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I've had nervous weanlings and my take is never to rush it... they have all come round in the end by just handling the others in their field and giving them the odd treat.

One of my last nervous weanlings is pictured in my avatar 6 months later trying to take my impact driver out of my hand whilst fixing a fence... definitely not a nervous nellie now.
 

Blanche

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Re getting him used to having a head collar on and off, leave the breakaway one on and put another over the top to lead him out to the field and then take it off when you get there. And vice versa. Without see you interact with him I can’t really see why he hasn’t come round yet. If it’s been weeks you really need to question everything you are doing when around him to see if there anything you are unconsciously doing to make him nervous. One thing I have noticed winds up some horses is fast breathing. Are you able to slow your breathing right down, always handy to be able to do. Are you apprehensive when you go to touch him and back off when he gets anxious? These are things you need to watch for, you could be making the situation worse unconsciously.
 
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