Neue Schule Verbidend Bit Burn??

Unless horse came straight out of a salox bit into this one and wasn't reacting in the earlier one. Or you now put another salox in and get no reaction you cannot say it is not an allergy.
 
Just to throw it out there, if this is a bit bank bit and been used previously... is it possible that an earlier user substituted a bit and this one is not genuine?
Seeing the prevalence of that behavior with saddles right now.
 
I think there is something else going on in that mouth. If it was burning the tongue, i would expect any horse to evade the sensation in some way and fir the wound site not to be such a precise line. Also, there is an older wound further up the tongue... Not by far, but far enough to make me find it impossible to believe that a change in bit/bridle would lay a bit on a totally different part of the tongue.

I also agree with ester that both marks look too far up the tongue to be from the bit. I know the tongue is being pulled, but still, it just doesn't seem to fit.

I would be seriously considering other possible causes as to just believe this is the bit means you may be continuing with something that is harming the horse.

I think I would be inclined to set up a camera in the stable and field or monitor from a distance for a few days, for as much time as possible to see if the horse is doing something as a habit that could cause this.
 
So if its not a reaction to the metal i.e. allergy or "burn" (as your vet confirmed and you agree with) then what do you propose it is?


Surely that type of injury is either going to be a reaction to the metal type, something physically with the bit, or from the bit being used in such a way to cause injury.

If your saying the bit looks physically fine(minus a few minor scratches), and you are sure it wasn't the result of any type of pressure injury then it would surely be the case then that either your horse has became extremely sensitive to the metal and it caused a reaction, or something have interfered with the metal to make it react in such a way.

I see that you have concluded that it is due to the mouthpiece being lightly scored, how would this damage be NS fault? Surely you would have sent a damaged item back when you noticed it when you bought it from the retailer - or your horse damaged it?

There are many many bits out there with scuffs and scores, and even some designed in such a way! Surely this wouldn't cause such an awful reaction! Unless the scores have revealed a metal under a coating which your horse is allergic to...

Why did you title the thread " burn" if you are sure that it not what it is?

You mentioned the horse became very heavy and leaning on you prior to you spotting the injury. Could the injury have been cause by the leaning and not the reason why?

Who is testing the bit ATM? Is your horse being tested for an intolerance also? Should be a pretty simple test.

Its tad perplexing, as even a rub injury or an allergic reaction would be spread out a little bit more. Due to how the bit moves while in the mouth, and by the nature of both of those things. However this - Its a perfect imprint of the bit, twice.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to work it all out so we can offer some other advice to you :)

Its a nasty injury, I really hope your horse makes a full and swift recovery and that you get to the bottom of it so it can be avoided in future.
 
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The horse has had another injury further up which is older than the really red one. So the horse has had a previous injury from another bit? The tongue is showing some thickening around the wound. It looks to me like a very cold bit could have caused this injury. Is it possible it could have been below freezing at any time it was put in the mouth? Personally, I would be looking for a bit with tongue relief for this horse. Horse was probably very heavy in the hand trying to push the bit away from the sore.
 
Cobgoblin keep you choice language to yourself it's offensive and common. Golden star, appreciatively they can however the qualified professional diagnosis from the vet overrides your assumptions, but thanks!

Cheers guys, I have used NS bits for years and also have never had an issue either until now.
 
Hi Wagtail, my bit had been lowered a hole which is consistent with the two marks. It is still +10 degrees here in NW England so most definately not a dub freezing issue.
 
Martin79 said:
Hi Wagtail, my bit had been lowered a hole which is consistent with the two marks. It is still +10 degrees here in NW England so most definately not a dub freezing issue.
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Ah I see. I have to say I have never seen a mark like that before. I'm going to be checking all the horse's tongues now. Most are in NS bits.
 
That's shocking! I've had my horse in a NS Verbindend before as it's meant to be kinder for the tongue but it doesn't look like this is the case in the photo! Like some others have said, maybe your horse is allergic to the metal.
 
I'm really allergic to several metals, can't wear anything with nickle in it and have horrible reactions to several others, so I can easily believe that your horse is suffering the same sort of thing. My allergies have got worse over time so maybe this is the case for your mare?
 
Martin79 said:
Cobgoblin keep you choice language to yourself it's offensive and common. Golden star, appreciatively they can however the qualified professional diagnosis from the vet overrides your assumptions, but thanks!

Cheers guys, I have used NS bits for years and also have never had an issue either until now.
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I'd really like to know what was choice language in my post.
 
angel7 said:
What rubbish! sack the vet.
Scores on the underside bit would not cause such a perfect outline of the bit across the tongue.
It 's obviously a reaction to the metal- allergies do occur at any time to any product, especially metals against the skin.
Just send back for a refund and move on FF's S
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It might not be an allergy to the metal, but is it possible someone may have cleaned it with something that has caused this, either at the distributors or your yard where tack is kept ?
 
Martin79 said:
Cobgoblin keep you choice language to yourself it's offensive and common. Golden star, appreciatively they can however the qualified professional diagnosis from the vet overrides your assumptions, but thanks!

Cheers guys, I have used NS bits for years and also have never had an issue either until now.
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Hmm, I have to say I'm in 'camp allergy' here, there is simply no way that a vet can just look at something like that and draw that diagnosis in my personal opinion. I'm certainly not saying it isn't something else, but two things are very clear:

1: horses and people can and do just develop allergies.
2: vets, no matter how good they are can and do make mistakes.

If a vet told me that injury was not an allergy, I'm afraid I would not be convinced enough to accept that as gospel. I would want to have a second opinion.

As I said to you earlier in the thread, after a while my horse became very evasive with a NS and I stopped using it, I tried again after a break and within 48 hrs he was running away from me when I had the bridle in my hand. His bit certainly did not have notches or scratches, it was completely smooth, but something did change, it is not now that I've seen this thread, inconceivable to me that a similar reaction was occurring in his mouth.

I know you say that your horse has been in a NS before, my question is this... Having seen that damage, would you put one (a smooth one, without notches) in his mouth again? Would you stake your life, or your horses mouth on your certainty of your vets diagnosis that the injury is not a reaction that your horse has developed to the metals composition?

There is every chance that it is a reaction, and frankly it does seem the obvious conclusion, people on here are correct, the shape of the injury is reflective of the shape of the entire bit and not with a series of 'notches'

I personally really appreciate the fact that you started this thread, but as much as you have started it to spread the word so to speak, I wonder why you are being quite so defensive about the fact that it's not a burn reaction, that it couldn't be the metal composition, that your horse couldn't have developed a sensitivity to the metal, and of your vets diagnosis... People on here are shocked on behalf of both you and your horse and are trying to help.

I repeat what I said, vets are not infallible, they make mistakes, you will read about it all the time, miss diagnosis, second opinions, stabs in the dark based on probability. If my vet said that was not a reaction, I would want to know what they think did cause it and frankly if my vet speculated that that was down to 'notches' when quite clearly the entire imprint of the bit is visible... It wouldn't matter to me how eminently qualified they are... I'd get another opinion, or as I said, if you're so convinced it's not the alloy or a reaction, put your money where your mouth is and go and buy another NS and pop it in your horses mouth - but I bet your not that confident.
 
Actually, OP, I think you are reacting rather obnoxiously to the people who are trying to help you on this thread. That wound is certainly not caused by a few scratches on the bit. It IS a burn or allergic reaction. The edges are too sharp for it to be bruising or soreness caused by the bit rubbing. And in my vast experience in caring for many, many horses, I have known vets to be wrong as often as they are right, and that is no exaggeration.
 
Wagtail said:
Actually, OP, I think you are reacting rather obnoxiously to the people who are trying to help you on this thread. That wound is certainly not caused by a few scratches on the bit. It IS a burn or allergic reaction. The edges are too sharp for it to be bruising or soreness caused by the bit rubbing. And in my vast experience in caring for many, many horses, I have known vets to be wrong as often as they are right, and that is no exaggeration.
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Agree wholeheartedly.
Can see the pictures on big screen now and if my vet said what the OP's vet did, I would probably lose a fair bit of respect for him/her and I would certainly be getting a second opinion.

OP, I too appreciate you starting this thread, but I too am wondering why you are being so determined to criticise or dismiss those who are trying to help you. You are the only person being rude....but I can appreciate that you might find it frustrating with people disagreeing with you/your vet.

It really is just because we care about horses and nobody on here would want you taking the word of a vet that is quite probably wrong in this instance.

A second opinion would be the best way forward. To not do that would be unthinkable to me, so I really hope you consider it. I also hope your horse is recovering well and also, what an absolute darling of a horse you have to work with that going on in the mouth.
 
She is and going beautifully but with experience of many horses comes a large bit collection too and a rubber snaffle has done the trick.

Biting is a minefield as we all know and it's hard to find the right key, but now I've found it.

I'm not being rude it is frustration of people not reading all the info I out at the start and through the thread as I have already been through a process of elimination for lots of possibilities so yes the 'do hoofer' tone of some rather opiniated people is a little tiring!

The compositions of the metal have not changed, the horse has not reacted to NS Eggbutt, universal gag or team up bit hence it cannot be a reaction as she has only developed this in the verbidend.

If u don't like it please do us all a favour and stop following the thread, thank you. X
 
I quite clearly did read the entire post. You seem to be wilfully, missing the point, just because your horse has not had a reaction to any of the salox bits until now with this bit simply does not mean that he would not react to any of them now. I am at a loss why you are so staunchly defensive of NS composition and aggressive towards anyone who says it could be the salox, but then I would question the reasoning of someone who would be happy to put another NS bit near their horses mouth no matter what, after such an experience.

Whatever the reason... That is quite clearly a reaction of some form, and since there is a historical reaction from a different but placement... I would say it's not due to anything the bit has been washed in, but the bit itself. It just beggars belief that at the very least someone does not look at that image and come to such a conclusion, personally, I find it a little bit bonkers and am confused as to why you really bothered to start this thread now. To say that NS were dismissive and rude, well by your standards that must be saying something. 😕

The main thing is that you found out your horses skin was reacting to the bit and stopped using it, thankfully you have found something she can go forward in comfortably and without pain...

Nothing more needs to be said
 
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The compositions of Salox have not changed since 2007 so the levels and materials are still the same!! So what would she react to exactly if everything is the same?

The Salox is not the problem hence why I have no issue with other NS bits!! Thank you
 
Iv read the thread and I still think it's a reaction to something being on the bit. (whether someone has given it a quick wipe over with something before sending or something else other than the salox.)

Looks like a classic reaction to me, but your adament that it's not. If it's not a reaction, pressure from the bit/ your hands and not from damage to the bit I'm not really sure what you want people to suggest?
 
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