neurological hind limb lameness - experiences please?

Roll on the xrays in the hope you have an answer. I did find my horse got more ataxic when bending. His CVM was mid neck and it looked slightly swollen one side. He did over the weeks push all his weight forward onto his forehand. His neck and shoulders started to muscle differently and lost topline ans muscle over his back and bum.

Fingers x'd for you. Hugs x
 
Again nothing constructive to add but just wanted to wish you good luck and I hope you get some answers, preferably positive, soon.
 
Ten year old fell in field onto neck, unable to lift neck. Was stabilised for five days box rest and drugs. Over a period of many months horses canter stride changed, started not lifting his back legs through jumps on the odd ocassion, started rubbing heels together. In between all this time the horse was still competing BSJA BN and DISCO classes and was ready to move up to Newcomers. However problems kept reocurring and he had three ataxia episodes. Eventually realised more to this than just clumsiness and got vet out. Vet thought EHV as ataxia (lack of co-ordination in limbs is symptom). This incorrect diagnosis took ages to find out it was an incorrect diagnosis all the while I was saying "its wobblers, I'm convinced its wobblers". Eventually on my sheer determination and constant requesting my horse was referred to Liverpool Phillip Leverhulme. Comprehensive xrays on neck, and gait analysis tests and nuero tests done, within two hours of arriving horse had to pts as no possible positive outcome. horse classed as dangerous to handle due to ataxia, could fall on anyone at any time. He had C4, C5 and C7 vetebra affected, and this was considered too much to help him. It was so sad. He was only ten and my pride and joy.

Apologies for hugely quick reply but just off to work. Email me if you want any other info. I know a huge amount about wobblers but here is something for you to read in the meantime. Please remember ataxia may not be due to compression in the spinal cord, it could be due to a lot of clover eaten in the field which can cause ataxia, some field spraying, plants eaten, etc, etc.

Here is the leaflet.http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/livestock/horses/facts/info_wobbler.htm
 
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Nothing constructive to add I'm afraid, I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear this. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you and Jazz on Friday and will be looking for updates.
 
Thanks Applecart, the EHV test is being done but the vet said it's very unlikey to be that. The physio actually runs a rehab yard, has huge experience, and she definitely isolated it to the neck. I could see the abnormal bend and muscle usage myself. It is possible that he had an unseen accident to his neck, but I have found out that in large warmbloods, ten is a classic age for noticeable onset and I can look back with 20/20 hindsight and see stuff from the last 5 years that fits with hind end inco-ordination of a minor level.

GUG the topline is already going. I wonder too if it is responsible for a very slight dip that he developed behind his withers in the last few months. I've been altering his saddle to try to sort it out, but it now looks as if it was caused by a different way of using himself.

I will not allow the vets to allow him to continue to suffer in the pursuit of an unlikely cure. If a cure is not possible he cannot stay here on severe slopes, he would have to go to flat ground just to be able to stay on his feet. He is a nightmare companion horse, regularly leaving others beaten and bloodied and rugs ripped to shreds, among other difficult behaviour. Retirement is not a sensible option.

If necessary, I will have him shot if my vet's professional rules or any other motive prevent him from doing the right thing for my horse. Your experience of dragging on is all too common :(

He isn't good today, I am just hoping for a clear diagnosis from the xrays tomorrow.

Thankyou for all the support.





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Applecart I am very interested in the history of your horse, with competition carrying on and also with repeated recovery from episodes of ataxia. I have both the vet and the physio attempting to reassure me that he can be improved enough to be ridden again. It is admittedly my nature to look on the black side in order to be pleasantly surprised when things turn out well. But I simply cannot see how anyone would take the chance of getting back on a huge moving warmblood who can only be controlled in a curb bit when at any time he could knuckle over or move his neck slightly wrong, and go down. I have set a criteria for him that I will not ride him again unless every single tiny sign of ataxia goes, and that the moment it returns, should we get that far, he will be put down.
 
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So why is the physio getting their experience put above the vets here? This really is the realm of the vets, it may be he has missed something of course, but with ataxic horses it really is a case of giving them time (see Kerilli's horse is coming better with rest) and rest to see the outcome-there are no quick fixes or quick answers. They can come back, although if it is a cervical vert. malformation it is unlikely so that's why you really do need the xrays. If it's viral or soft tissue damage he may recover. Discuss your physio's advice with your vet tomorrow and see what they think. Ataxic horses are considered extremely dangerous so your vet will be more likely to suggest pts than keep going as it is too much of a risk to have a hrose that could crash down on someone at any moment. Don't know why you're concerned your vet will not advise correctly-if so please get a second opinion as there has to be trust between client and vet.
 
I do hope you get an answer to this. Even if it comes to the worst outcome, you will know that all was done that could be. I had a very elderly pony in my care a few years ago and I left her absolutely fine in the evening and found her with back legs going in a different direction from her front ones the following morning. She wasn't in any obvious pain, was completely cheerful and made her crab-like way for her breakfast as normal, but watching her poor muscles shaking from the effort of holding her up was awful. I buted her and phoned her owner advising him to call the vet immediately and that I was happy for her to be PTS if necessary, but I'm sorry to say she had to wait for another couple of weeks before that happened. She did seem to improve but then her quarters would tilt right over again, to the other side.

I subsequently found out that a mare who had been put in the field with them "hated little ponies and would go for them". This mare thought my mare was her hearts desire and I suspect the pony had been lying down with my girl, and was attacked by the other mare, twisting herself in the process of getting up. She had never shown any sign of arthritis despite being in her 40s and could reach right around herself etc. Just my theory but a sad end for a lovely little character.
 
I've no personal experience to add, I just wanted to wish you and your boy well. I really hope you get a conclusive answer and a positive outcome.
 
SusieT said:
So why is the physio getting their experience put above the vets here?
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Because this physio takes referrals from a very wide area as boarders and has masses more experience of this condition than the Vet, who requested that I call her in.

Susie thankyou for trying to help but I do not find your comments helpful. I would be grateful if you would stick to the topics where we are used to arguing on other threads.

I am not going to argue with you on here about what is the best course of action for a horse you have not seen and a Vet and physio who you do not know.
 
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Just wanted to say that I think you are being very sensible and objective about decisions that may need to be made.

I hope the prognosis is more positive than you suspect, but whatever the outcome, I feel sure you will do your very best for your horse.

Will be thinking of you tomorrow.

Sarah x
 
so sorry to hear this, I have for some reason only just seen your post.

I don't know anything about the condition your horse has but wanted to say that your thoughts that the dips behind the withers could be caused by a different way of going are EXACTLY what was happening to Micah with his PSD so I would say you hit the nail on the head with that thought.
I too kept changing saddle fit but it didn't help, I obviously know why now :(

keeping everything crossed for you
 
Your asking for advice-you're being given it. It's a public forum. People will reply to what they will.
 
SusieT said:
Your asking for advice-you're being given it. It's a public forum. People will reply to what they will.
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And having read what you have written I have now made it clear to you that it is not helping me and I have made a personal request to you that you do not post again. If you ignore that personal request and continue to post on this thread that is entirely your right.
 
My horse was ridden during periods of ataxia but obviously not at the time of his three bad ataxia episodes where you only had to nudge him and he would stagger. At the time of the very minor ataxia episodes it wasn't enough to make him dangerous to ride and we did not know that there was definetely a problem or even that he had ataxia as he wasn't outwardly drunken and staggering. He was seen by a McTimoney chiro twice in the space of six months and she said he didn't have wobblers. Because he was rubbing his back fetlocks together the farrier raised the inside of his off hind heels to prevent this but it made no difference. Most of the time Rommy would do a very odd canter stride which threw me up and out of the saddle, it was not like a disunited canter it was more violent. I would halt, rein back and go directly into canter and this would free up the neck, again at the time I didn't know he had wobblers, I was reassured by the physio/farrier and also a professional rider who I paid to ride in the collecting ring before my class and give him opinion. The horse was still doing double clears in Discovery classes and he was happy and healthy other than his abnormal heel rubbing, and canter.

The whole thing took many months to come to the realisation that there was more to Rommy than met the eye and it was my constant digging for information and asking questions that I found the solution was to ask the vet for a referral. Obviously the incorrect EHV diagnosis hampered this effort as he could not be transported off the yard until given the all clear.

I do hope you get your answers, even if it is bad news at least you will get a sense of relief in a way that you know the direction you must go with your horse. Good luck hun x
 
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claracanter said:
Have been following this thread and just wanted to say I am thinking of you. Everything crossed.
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ditto too , having similar problems but don't think they are neurological now, but pain relative but where who knows :confused: hocks (spavin or back?)
he had shockwave on his back a week ago and was loads WORST - a bad reaction:confused: Once again good luck ((hugs))
 
He's a wobbler :(

In many ways I am incredibly lucky. Other people with horses in this situation cannot get a definitive answer and they drag on for months or years.

Jazz is a classic late onset wobbler. He has a step narrowing of the spinal cord channel between neck vertebrae C3 and C4 exactly like the diagram that the physio drew for me. In addition, he appears to have some fairly serious fragmentation of C4, with 3 or 4 separate pieces clearly visible on the xray.

We will try and get him safe to ride, but if he does not come right in a few months then I will have him put down before next winter.

Life is not fair, but other people have it worse than me. I still have Radar, my hunter and Ace, a talented young dressage horse.

Thankyou everyone for your support. I am sorry for all of us that I could not give you a better outcome.
 
I'm very sorry to read your latest post but as you say, at least you now know what your dealing with.

Good luck, i do hope that he can be safely ridden again at some point.
 
I am so sorry! But like you say, at least you know now.

My 5 y/o boy has shivers. As yet, undiagnosed by vet but it is obvious and dare I say it, getting worse. What the future holds is unknown but I've just got to enjoy him while I have him... same goes for you. You'll know if / when enough is enough. They don't deserve this... Big hugs xxx
 
Am very sorry to hear about Jazz.

I have a wobbler too. After numerous inhand tests, x-rays and a mylogram my little mare was diagnosed at 4yrs old with narrowing at C6/C7. Out of 4 they graded her a 2 1/2 behind and 2 infront.
I retired her there and then. I decided not to go for the op that is available.
Since then she has had a foal (who is rising 7 and going novice BE next month!) and she has lived out 24x7 for the last 6 years (she loves feeling like she is wild & free!). She is now 13.

Please keep us posted on how you manage Jazz, would be very interested and i really hope you find a good way of managing it for you and him.
 
I'm glad that you got a definitive answer, but really gutted for you and him that it wasn't something simpler. I wish you all the best with him and please keep us updated.
 
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