Neutering to do or not to do thoughts please!!

[devonlass]

Mnay thanks again for all the replies folks,has made very interesting reading and given lot's of food for thought.

if the dog has been used for alot of matings or if the dog has had access to the outdoors once got a taste for "punanni" and will reoffend.

A dog being submissive would not be further altered by neutering thats definately a "out of the air thing".

In regard to coat types, you definately see it more in certain coat types, but mind you not all, but I notice it more in indeed maybe setter, cavaliers, retrievers (although not in the case of the example used in this post) which is a good example of (not always) erm, spaniels. More wolly coat types, and also maybe terriers coats going a good bit softer making stripping a little harder, I still strip them. Other grooms will no doubt add some. But certainly it would be due lack of hormone production.

I applaud you for thinking about the "not breeding" but not all people can help it "they see sexual organs and need to see them in use" and majority is neither necessary or responsible.

I only included that first line in the quote because it made me PMSL

Great about the submissive thing,will remove that reason from the list.

Thank you so much for the info on the coats,although in a way not what I wanted to hear,but good to have some reliable first hand experience of it.I know it sounds really shallow of me but the coat thing is almost a reson in itself for me not to neuter,setters are a lot about the looks let's be honest and the coat is a big part of it.I wouldn't not neuter if there were other good reasons to do it just because of coat,but I will confess it is up there near the top of the list for not having him chopped at present.
I don't suppose there are any remedies or products vets would be willing to administer that would help with coat issues if it was an issue post neutering?? HRT maybe??

I have absolutely no intention now or ever to breed from him.I'm sure he would make a lovely stud dog,(is a pretty good example of a setter from a good breeder),BUT it's not something I have any interest in,and the behaviour issues I can imagine I *might* get after allowing him to 'do the deed' would be enough to put me off TBH.He's a family pet,that *maybe* I would like to do a few shows with and get the kids interested etc,but that's af far as my ambitions go with him.Besides if you met him you would realise that one Alfie is quite enough on the planet,a whole litter would be unthinkable lol

I kind of know what you mean though about the type of person that thinks that way.I was watching some dog programme the other day (me or the dog or something??) and was a bloke on there with an entire husky (he was a nightmare behaviour wise and a perfect candidate for neutering IMO) and he said he hadn't had him done because he 'thought it would be nice to let him stud just the once so he knew what it was all about',I thought that sounded bonkers TBH,and was sat there shouting at the tv

Just a general observation, but why would one want to breed from a very submissive dog? Especially combined with certain other traits from the other partner in the mating.
Surely a strong/confident character is one of the most important things to think about in a breeding. JMO though.

Obviously I'm not breeding from mine but when I said he was submissive I only meant in the way that he should be for his type as in totally non agressive no matter what.He has a very confident and strong character (he has character by the bucket load,too much at times),and even pretends to be brave at times lol,but in any sort of serious confrontation he will roll over so to speak (well and literally when 28kg of staffie jumped on him the other week,poor boy) and submit,can't imagine he would ever fight back or be a threat is what I meant by submissive.
That's what I love about them as well(and why I put up with them lol),can trust them 100% (and there aren't many types of dog I would say that about TBH),with kids,other animals etc,most your average setter would do would be bounce or befriend someone to death I should imagine lol

 

[CAYLA]

Just to add, I cannot quote for some reason nor can I remeber who posted what, the point about the "convenience" neutering, I would add that the majority of people I see with un neutered dogs for comparison more commonly are those who cannot afford to neuter, those who see it as unneccessary cost, or squeamish men, or woman who's men are squeamish and they are a little to backward in coming forward to voice an opinion against the man even though they want the dog neutered, or both are squeamish or those who belive it will change the dogs personality or those just not educated about the pros/cons as it never cropped up. Very few had actually researched it either way.
Obs there is also the breeders and the working dogs, I can obs see why those are entire
Anyhows like I say I need to see the evidence my self of higher cancer rates in neutered dogs at present im seeing it alarmingly more so in entires, even speaking to the mothership about it (we where debating about something else) and we got onto cancers, she manages 7 practices and commented about how in a long time they are seeing more cancers and confirmed it was majority entires but I did also step in with my (I bet they are fed on rubbish food) foods aswell but others in practice may see the opposite?
I don't think being worried about the dogs coat makes you shallow either OP, because otherwise you seem to have a very sensible attitude and a well behaved dog who is not going to be breeding for the sake of emptying his sacks cos he has them and you have reasoned and come to your conclusion and thats what everyone should/has the right to do

 

[Dizzle]

Very interesting! I've had a few people jump on me when I said I was going to have Roo castrated when he's older, I'd never heard opposition to it before!

CAYLA, what effect does it have on a Border Terrier coat? He's still in puppy coat at the moment and it's hard to imagine it getting wiry let alone going soft again. We've not had him stripped yet but OH is keen to keep his hair short and I have images of me mauling the dog with clippers!!

My reasons for castrating? We live next to a park, a very busy route for dog walkers and I don't think it fair Roo should have to watch all the lovely ladies walk past all day and not be able to get to them.

I also want to remove the temptation for ME to breed from him. He's very pretty, a lovely nature but he's not registered!

 

[CAYLA]

In general (not all) some go a little softer and tend to grow quicker. But to be fair your groom should still beable to strip still, if you want a strip? some people chose clip in which case it makes no difference cos it's all coming off anyways, I do both, I rehomed 2 puppy borders last year and they still get stripped and are both suprisingly short, the one I groomed the other day was still entire (not neutered) and her coat was horrendous, I posted a picture and another border we have in she was neutered 2 days after I stripped her and her coat was also wild, sometimes the coat will depend upon what they are bred from and how wild their coats where neutered or not.
I have a terrier type and he is neutered and his coat is short and neat, no extra growth and still very wirey. If you want to keep him short and smart it would not imo hinder to much to castrate, esp given you main reasons for doing so.

 

[CAYLA]

I am not into jumping on folk who have entires, I can see why some people have them entire, and if they are sensible and have no issues like the OP and they have weighed up the pros/cons then good on them, but to jump on you for having him done, same as LML's OH on his forum, well I find it odd I would ask "why"? and if the answer is "you could breed" that will tell you ALOT, if they begin to educate you on their reasons then fair do's.

 

[MurphysMinder]

I have had neutered and entire males, the entire ones were used at stud so didn't need to go looking for ladies
Pickle was neutered at just over 6 months, he was very precocious at that age, cocking his leg and humping everything. It was always daughters intention to have him done as he was going to be with her at work and an entire dog would not have been practical. His character hasn't changed at all, the only thing I would say is that he is a bit more on the leg than some heelers, although his sire was too so it could be he would have turned out like that anyway. As long as the owner is responsible and their circumstances suit I think it is up to them if they keep a male entire, but I would always recommend having a bitch spayed.

 

[Luci07]

Interesting reading. My ex BIL (he was a sweetie actually!) didn't want to castrate their dog, who was a stunning reg KC Stafford. Now Alfie was very well behaved, courtesey of a lot of puppy training and very heavy socialisastion. The one thing that was going to persuade my BIL to do it was he was never going to breed but was massively worried about Alfie being stolen. Sadly Alfie turned out to have a weak heart and we lost him whe he was only 4 so never done due to the stress it could cause.

I had my Stafford bitches done as early as I could.

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

All those with entire dogs, don't they become unmanageable hooligans? Desperate to escape, not eating, whinging, scaling six feet walls, barging doors down to get at a bitch in season? I only ask, because the last time I posted about walking my in season bitch in public, I was shot down by some of those with entire males. How dare I, how irresponsible etc etc............ My BT is castrated, he hasn't lost his masculinity, still a game little dog.

 

[g16]

my parents had a retriever who would climb out an 8ft gate, followed by jumping a 5ft gate with one of those boundary collars to get to his lady friend - not just when she was in season either! unfortunately once when he escaped he picked up a poisoned crow and by the time we realised it was too late. We've always had females since but if I had a male it would most likely be done

 

[devonlass]

All those with entire dogs, don't they become unmanageable hooligans? Desperate to escape, not eating, whinging, scaling six feet walls, barging doors down to get at a bitch in season? I only ask, because the last time I posted about walking my in season bitch in public, I was shot down by some of those with entire males. How dare I, how irresponsible etc etc............ My BT is castrated, he hasn't lost his masculinity, still a game little dog.

I wouldn't walk an in season bitch around other dogs,and most people I know don't either.
Not worth the risk IMO,and also must be very annoying for the bitch having various dogs showing 'interst' in her,and that isn't even exclusive to entire dogs either IME.

I'm not just saying that because I have an entire male BTW,although I appreciate it must seem that way.Just the consequences of a unwanted 'meeting' as the owner of a bitch could be considerable,and not worth the risk IMO.

 

[burtie]

I wouldn't walk an in season bitch around other dogs,and most people I know don't either.
Not worth the risk IMO,and also must be very annoying for the bitch having various dogs showing 'interst' in her,and that isn't even exclusive to entire dogs either IME.

I'm not just saying that because I have an entire male BTW,although I appreciate it must seem that way.Just the consequences of a unwanted 'meeting' as the owner of a bitch could be considerable,and not worth the risk IMO.

My vet initially advised against castration due to weight gain, (he's a lab!) When I said I walk him loose on the New Forest a lot and take him out with the horse too and was concerned about in-season bitches being walked, he advised this was unlikely as most owner wouldn't walk then out.
Well in fact we meet a least one in season bitch on most times out, so that was clearly not the case.

 

[Wiz201]

I've managed to control the weight in my spayed golden retrievers, that's not really an excuse not to neuter.

 

[TelH]

All 3 of my dogs are neutered, shoot me down if you wish but the 2 girls were both spayed before their first season Neither have suffered any ill effects of that, the Springer is still young, 2yo, but the jrt will be 13 next month and touch wood is still perfectly healthy I just think unless they're top quality breeding stock they don't need their bits so get rid of them.


A number of years ago I took on an ex puppy farm Westie. She was about 6/7yo and not spayed, I was told she was last in season a month before I got her so the vet said to wait another 2 months then she could be spayed. In that 2 months she had a pyo and had to have an emergency spay. I would never want to risk a dog going through that again

 

[burtie]

I've managed to control the weight in my spayed golden retrievers, that's not really an excuse not to neuter.

I agree, I ignored his advice and had him spayed anyway, he has since got much fitter and leaner as he now runs out with horse at least twice a week covering 6-8 miles, plus has long walks in the forest on other days! He was a bit of a nightmare for humping before and this has completely gone so I can trust him totally around other dogs, which means more off lead walking!

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

My vet initially advised against castration due to weight gain, (he's a lab!) When I said I walk him loose on the New Forest a lot and take him out with the horse too and was concerned about in-season bitches being walked, he advised this was unlikely as most owner wouldn't walk then out.
Well in fact we meet a least one in season bitch on most times out, so that was clearly not the case.

I would like to add that she is walked ON LEAD, UNDER CONTROL. If an entire male approaches my on lead, in season bitch who's irresponsible? The owner who allows their entire dog off lead or the owner who walks their in season bitch on lead?

 

[The Original Kao]

I would like to add that she is walked ON LEAD, UNDER CONTROL. If an entire male approaches my on lead, in season bitch who's irresponsible? The owner who allows their entire dog off lead or the owner who walks their in season bitch on lead?

I would have to say the person with the in season bitch would be at fault unless you had someone walking in front of you ringing a bell shouting 'unclean, unclean' then how is the entire male's owner going to know that the bitch is in season?
Although if you follow good etiquette then really if you see a dog on lead and yours is off lead you should really put your dog on a lead also, unless said dog is well trained enough to stay away

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

I would have to say the person with the in season bitch would be at fault unless you had someone walking in front of you ringing a bell shouting 'unclean, unclean' then how is the entire male's owner going to know that the bitch is in season?
Although if you follow good etiquette then really if you see a dog on lead and yours is off lead you should really put your dog on a lead also, unless said dog is well trained enough to stay away

Nail.On.Head.

 

[CAYLA]

I would like to add that she is walked ON LEAD, UNDER CONTROL. If an entire male approaches my on lead, in season bitch who's irresponsible? The owner who allows their entire dog off lead or the owner who walks their in season bitch on lead?

The approaching dogs as it is out of conrol/has no recall/out of sight from owner, dog would get a boot and owner would get a gobfull

 

[PolarSkye]

I would have to say the person with the in season bitch would be at fault unless you had someone walking in front of you ringing a bell shouting 'unclean, unclean' then how is the entire male's owner going to know that the bitch is in season?
Although if you follow good etiquette then really if you see a dog on lead and yours is off lead you should really put your dog on a lead also, unless said dog is well trained enough to stay away

This. Before we had Dinks spayed, when she was in season we kept her in the house and she only went in the garden (a secure garden) under supervision. No walks. At all. Cruel? Possibly . . . but better than an unintentional mating and an unwanted/unplanned litter.

P

 

[amandat]

Wiz201 your girl is a beauty and looks amazing for 10years of age.

Amandat I just hope your dog does not go off a wandering after the girls he is also a prime candidate to be stolen.

Many years ago m- and f-i-l had an un-neutered collie for the cattle and that dog used to break out and service the local doggy girls who were in an interesting condition on a regular basis. That dog was a proper houdini and in the end both in laws had him neutered, it took a while for it to kick in but it stoppped his wander lust.

Haha re the houdini comment ... Reg found all the weak spots in the garden fence & got out a couple of times but he's such a baby & i'm so lucky he just ran round & waited at my back gate the garden is now secure, he doesn't take to strangers kindly & i'm very aware of those that would like to steal him. He's a very gorgeous boy !!!!

 

[amandat]

Why don't you want him done if you don't want to breed with him?

I s'pose it's just something i'd rather not do just for the sake of it !!!!

I've had him since he was 5.5 wks (too young but he wasn't being looked after properly & i had the choice of taking him or he would be dumped). For the first 8-10mths he was a total nightmare, everyone was telling me that the only way to calm him down was to get him done, I love him dearly for his character & just for being him, i don't want to loose any of who he is. I've learnt to get the right voice tone & he is very obedient as long as i stay calm

 

[Dobiegirl]

AmandaT neutering your dog will not change his personality so the only part he would lose would be his goolies.

All my Dobes were neutered when they were mature and I can honestly say it didnt change them apart from humping,leg cocking and showing an interest in the ladies.

I think where the change may occur is if they are neutered early and they are not physically and mentaly mature.

 

[Jake10]

I wasn't going to neuter Jake but we had an entire bitch (now spayed) with a fairly good pedigree that the parents were umming and arring about breeding. So he was neutered to prevent unwanted crossbreed puppies. Personally I think that a wire fox terrier x border collie x springer spaniel would have been extremely loopy in temperament and would look funny.

 

[twiglet84]

I think the pro's outweigh con's IMO, but if your worried it will have negative results of personality etc then you could try chemical castration. There is an implant called suprelorin which last 6 months and will have the effects of a surgical castration. Could try that first then decide if you are happy with the results before proceeding to surgery.

xxxxx (havent read whole thread so hope not repeated anyone) xx

 

[ChesnutsRoasting]

This. Before we had Dinks spayed, when she was in season we kept her in the house and she only went in the garden (a secure garden) under supervision. No walks. At all. Cruel? Possibly . . . but better than an unintentional mating and an unwanted/unplanned litter.

P

Yes, cruel, sadly. An unintentional mating would only occur if an owners entire dog was not under proper control and an inseason bitch was not under proper control or both owners were idiots.