New 2 acre field, to do list?

[Patchworkpony]

You dont need planning permission for a hard standing as long as the material use of the land is not changing ie horses grazing land,grazing land is not defined under planning law. Some councils quite wrongly try to extract every last penny from applicants and bend the rules in their favour. You can change grazing land to whatever you want without having to ask anybody. There are lots of old wives tales going the rounds and this is one of the myths. The council that advised the OP to their credit stuck to the planning rules and guidance in their advice some councils dont.

poshdosh - how do you know for absolute sure that you don't need planning permission for hard standing?

 

[popsdosh]

really? please direct me to the relevant passage in the town and country planning act.

What I mean is grazing land is not specifies and can be used for any agricultural purpose. land is land us farmers do it all the time and dont have to get any clearance. I will turn it around to something that is actually more pertinent you direct me to where it says you cant a lot of the planning authorities make up the rules as they go along to suit themselves . Take it to appeal and they back down.

 

[popsdosh]

poshdosh - how do you know for absolute sure that you don't need planning permission for hard standing?

Its not the hard standing you need permission for it is the use so as long as the use of the land has not changed theres no issue. As long as it is not above the natural land level .Hence why you can often put in a school as long as it has no fencing.to raise the level.

 

[popsdosh]

Just to add for clarity this all assumes it is for personal use ie your not running a livery . As it would need planning in a commercial situation. You could even build a swimming pool if you wanted to under permitted development rules which covers the whole lot

The OP could in theory concrete the whole area over as long as it was for their own use

 

[Patchworkpony]

Its not the hard standing you need permission for it is the use so as long as the use of the land has not changed theres no issue. As long as it is not above the natural land level .Hence why you can often put in a school as long as it has no fencing.to raise the level.

Very interesting thank you. Perhaps though you are speaking as someone who has more than 12 acres. I understand with 2 acres or less there is no permitted development on agricultural land - perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[popsdosh]

Cahill I must be bored however.

Heres chapter and verse.

Class B – agricultural development on units of less than 5 hectares
Permitted development
B. The carrying out on agricultural land comprised in an agricultural unit, of not less than 0.4
but less than 5 hectares in area, of development consisting of—
(a) the extension or alteration of an agricultural building;
(b) the installation of additional or replacement plant or machinery;
(c) the provision, rearrangement or replacement of a sewer, main, pipe, cable or other
apparatus;
(d) the provision, rearrangement or replacement of a private way;
(e) the provision of a hard surface;
(f) the deposit of waste; or
(g) the carrying out of any of the following operations in connection with fish farming,
namely, repairing ponds and raceways; the installation of grading machinery, aeration
equipment or flow meters and any associated channel; the dredging of ponds; and the
replacement of tanks and nets,
where the development is reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture within the unit.

Seeing as the land will most likely still be classified as agricultural this will apply and even if it has been changed to equine the same rules apply

 

[popsdosh]

Very interesting thank you. Perhaps though you are speaking as someone who has more than 12 acres. I understand with 2 acres or less there is no permitted development on agricultural land - perhaps I'm wrong.

No its .4 ha (i acre) as you will see from section from town and country planning act above which is for .4-5 ha there are different rules in a minor way above 12.5 acres

 

[*hic*]

Cahill I must be bored however.

Heres chapter and verse.

Class B – agricultural development on units of less than 5 hectares
Permitted development
B. The carrying out on agricultural land comprised in an agricultural unit, of not less than 0.4
but less than 5 hectares in area, of development consisting of—
(a) the extension or alteration of an agricultural building;
(b) the installation of additional or replacement plant or machinery;
(c) the provision, rearrangement or replacement of a sewer, main, pipe, cable or other
apparatus;
(d) the provision, rearrangement or replacement of a private way;
(e) the provision of a hard surface;
(f) the deposit of waste; or
(g) the carrying out of any of the following operations in connection with fish farming,
namely, repairing ponds and raceways; the installation of grading machinery, aeration
equipment or flow meters and any associated channel; the dredging of ponds; and the
replacement of tanks and nets,
where the development is reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture within the unit.

Seeing as the land will most likely still be classified as agricultural this will apply and even if it has been changed to equine the same rules apply

The pertinent point is in bold. "Horsiculture" is not the same as agriculture It's also subject to 465 square metres max for the hardstanding.

 

[popsdosh]

The pertinent point is in bold. "Horsiculture" is not the same as agriculture

Pedantic People always have to look for the negative, the land will most likely be classified as agricultural I could add that any commercial premises or operation as well has permitted development rights for hard surfaces However JA just keep believing what you think is right and do nothing. If you go to domestic they are even more open.

 

[*hic*]

Pedantic People always have to look for the negative, the land will most likely be classified as agricultural I could add that any commercial premises or operation as well has permitted development rights for hard surfaces However JA just keep believing what you think is right and do nothing. If you go to domestic they are even more open.

Thanks, I needed a giggle Irony always tickles me.

 

[Gloi]

The hardstanding is for feeding the sheep on which you have put on to graze and tidy the field anyway, isn't it?

 

[Patchworkpony]

The hardstanding is for feeding the sheep on which you have put on to graze and tidy the field anyway, isn't it?

Certainly is for me - it stops the sheep getting lame from jammed mud. The road sub base works a real treat - has gone down rock hard.

 

[PeterNatt]

First check it has planning permission for Equestrian Use.
Pick up all the poos to prevent grass being killed off and weeds taking over where the poos remain.
Don't trust people on worming and assume field is infested. Rest it for 3 months at least to get rid of worms.
Get it soil tested to determine if any dressing is required and then dress as required.
Install drainage if it is required.
Install water if it is required and use plastic water troughs not metal ones as horses can injure themselves on metal ones.
Over-seed or cultivate and re-seed with an equine compatible grass to your requirements. Use a specialist grassland contractor not a farming contractor or farmer.
Erect new fencing with Equi-fencing (a tight form of sheep netting which will prevent dogs getting in).
Ensure all gates have hinges reversed to prevent them being lifted off.

 

[popsdosh]

Over-seed or cultivate and re-seed with an equine compatible grass to your requirements. Use a specialist grassland contractor not a farming contractor or farmer.

Is it bash a farmer week??????? :-D Not everybody has won the lottery and most farmers have forgotten more about establishing grass than the experts your on about know!!
What can they do that I cant apart from come up with an inflated bill maybe!

 

[popsdosh]

Thanks, I needed a giggle Irony always tickles me.

Ditto D.

 

[EQUIDAE]

Pedantic People always have to look for the negative, the land will most likely be classified as agricultural I could add that any commercial premises or operation as well has permitted development rights for hard surfaces However JA just keep believing what you think is right and do nothing. If you go to domestic they are even more open.

This isn't true - you cannot graze horses on agricultural land (unless cohabiting with sheep/cows). Changing agricultural grazing to horticultural grazing requires a change of use permission. I know as I had to obtain it retrospectively and it was denied. A friend also had to remove their hardstanding.

It's easy to be flippant about it when it isn't your money - it cost my friend thousands to dig up the hardstanding.

 

[popsdosh]

This isn't true - you cannot graze horses on agricultural land (unless cohabiting with sheep/cows). Changing agricultural grazing to horticultural grazing requires a change of use permission. I know as I had to obtain it retrospectively and it was denied. A friend also had to remove their hardstanding.

It's easy to be flippant about it when it isn't your money - it cost my friend thousands to dig up the hardstanding.

I am sorry but you are wrong there is no reason you cannot graze horses on agricultural land .I will find the document later .
You will find that the permitted development rules changed last year in the 2014 town and countryside act so maybe your friends case was before that . The excert above was straight out of the act and basically covers any planning situation. So maybe your friend was very unlucky .

Found it.
Agricultural or Recreational land?
The Court has held that the term in the statutory definition of agriculture referring to the breeding and keeping of livestock does not apply to the breeding and keeping of horses (except in connection with any farming use). If you intend to use the field only as grazing land it will be regarded as for agricultural use and planning permission will not be required (even if the horses are recreational horses). However, the horses must only be on the land for the primary purpose of grazing. If the horses are given supplemental feed and kept in the field for exercise and accommodation then the predominant use of the land is not regarded as agricultural.

 

[EQUIDAE]

However, the horses must only be on the land for the primary purpose of grazing. If the horses are given supplemental feed and kept in the field for exercise and accommodation then the predominant use of the land is not regarded as agricultural.

And this is where it all falls down...

 

[case895]

Do not do anything to the ground this time of year as nothing will grow and you will just make a mess. Will anyone notice or care about your hardcoring? I'd be tempted to JFDI early Spring, see if anything happens and then just put up your shelter. Can you stick it somewhere in the field that it is not too visible from any roads/paths?

 

[Cahill]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/made


i dont think class B????....i think you need to scroll down to pt6

 

[Lplates]

Thanks all, hugely informative!
I spoke to local farmer, who also happens to be parish councillor, who also happens to be rather good at putting down hardcore....
He said it is a small area (30ft by 30 ft) and that in all his years as a parish councillor he has never known anyone be fined for putting hard standing in a field. He also said it was his understanding that as we will have a few sheep in with the ponies, it is an agricultural field and therefore a shelter would be permitted development, but he wasn't sure.
Think I will look into what it costs in time/money to get planning and if it is all too much, I might just risk it! I think they are fairly relaxed around here - we aren't anywhere posh like the Home Counties.

 

[popsdosh]

It sounds like a plan. I personally would just push on and not give them an opportunity to say no !!!!
Most planners are human some arent. Several have been spoken to for not following government guidelines and being over zealous. I am sure you will be fine.

 

[Lplates]

Yup!
Patchwork pony what was the surface you put down?