New Addition to the family-what breed?

Sorry to be a PITA...how does pretending to eat before the dog help solve SA?
Not that it applies to me anyway as my dogs aren't fed in the house and one isn't fed from a bowl :p
I concur with some of pack theory with certain types of dog and absolutely agree with not forcing a dog into the stressful role of pack leader (which leads to a lot of behavioural problems) but 9/10 dogs are not truly dominant and don't see how the eating first thing relates to SA.
 
canteron said:
There are a few golden rules for Separation Anxiety which it would be worth reading up on ..... I think Victoria Stillwell deals with it quite well and has a couple of books out - pm me if you want to look the books up.

The theory is that the dog believes it should be in charge, but isn't able to cope with that in a human world, so you have to find a way to explain, in doggy language, that you are in charge and he doesn't have to worry.

Things like

* Never look at the dog when you leave the room and ignore him for a few minutes when you come back - you are pack leader and have the right to do what you want, it is the lower orders in the pack who have to ask permission to leave and 'apologise' for going out alone.

* Always go through the a door first, the pack leader always leads!!!

* When you give your dog food, pretend (or have a couple of biscuits nearby) to eat some first and then give the bowl to the dog. The pack leader has the first go at food, then the rest of the pack is able to eat.

Etc, I think there are 7 golden rules is I remember correctly. I had a labrador which started to get separation anxiety and this seem to help to reassure him.

Having said that, he looks gorgeous and I think the first thing it to let him settle in.

Good luck.
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Thank you!! I have been trying to make him think I am incharge, I will have to try eating before him...My Dad will think I have totally lost the plot!!!

Wiz201 said:
And never leave the food bowl down, unless you know that already, when he leaves it after eating.
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I have been putting it down for 15 mins and taking it away when he doesnt eat, then putting it down again half an hour later for the same time and taking it away again if he leaves it. Should I be putting it down the second time or only give him the one chance?

:)
 
CaveCanem said:
Sorry to be a PITA...how does pretending to eat before the dog help solve SA?
Not that it applies to me anyway as my dogs aren't fed in the house and one isn't fed from a bowl :p
I concur with some of pack theory with certain types of dog and absolutely agree with not forcing a dog into the stressful role of pack leader (which leads to a lot of behavioural problems) but 9/10 dogs are not truly dominant and don't see how the eating first thing relates to SA.
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Better people than me have worked out that who gets first pick of the food is hierachical - it makes sense to me. My dog doesn't speak French, or English or German, it speaks dog!! But if you want to argue there are some very learned educational papers out there somewhere!
 
I have to strongly disagree that seperation anxiety comes from dogs who believe they are in charge (do you know how common seperation anxiety is)? that would be alot of dogs taking a role of " being in charge"!
Puppies as young as 9 weeks old suffer seperation anxiety when placed in a new environemt and seperated from the siblings from the fist time (could be presume they are trying to be in charge)? or that is is a simple as being seperated fom something from which they have formed a bond and have become to rely on their presence and company.
Some breeds are also commonly more prone to seperation anxiety "are these breeds that want to be leaders"?

Seperation issues are very common in rescue dogs and more so when they have landed in a home environment after living in what is effectively a prison which little to no contact, they then find themselves in company for the first time in a very long time and take comfort in this (when it is abruptly taken away) the dog becomes distressed/anxious and this will display it's self with passing of feaces/destruction (to escape from where they are secured) howling/barking. It all stems from a lack of routine.

This is why a routine need to be put in place immediately to help the dog to settle in it's own company without being dependent on that of its human/another dog e.t.c. Very few dogs/puppies will just lie in a bed and settle when their owner is gone without any form of training or routine being introduced.
A dog that does not suffer seperation issues could actually be seen to display exactly the same behaviour if placed in a strange environment or with unfamiliar people (not leadership) just panick!

Think the same of that of a child who spends a lot of time with their mother and has a very close bond then mother is suddenly out of sight and the child begins to scream in sheer panick (the child is not trying to be dominant) it's panicking thats it mother is out of sight and may not return.

I think the rules outlined are tedious and have no connection with seperation anxiety, all they teach is basic manners, the food eating one I find odd.
The only rule there that makes sense is pay no attention to a dog when you arrive home from being out otherwise you give out the message of "do become massively excited when I come home and do anticipate me coming home because I am "ENCOURAGING IT" by letting you leap all over me and squealing in a high pitched voice to announce "I am home", in turn you will encourage bad behaviour of jumping up and mass excitement.;)

Also in regards to "settling in first" this is indeed key, aslong as settling in is not lavishing the dog with company/affection and attention without putting a routine in place including lots of energy expending instead of attention giving, as a dog with seperation anxiety will suffer ten fold because of it.
I must have worked with hundreds of dogs with SA and I have never worked through it looking at the dog as a leader, more a dog is insecure because it has never learnt to feel secure in it's own company. The majority of SA is human induced.
 
Emma86 said:
Thank you!! I have been trying to make him think I am incharge, I will have to try eating before him...My Dad will think I have totally lost the plot!!!



I have been putting it down for 15 mins and taking it away when he doesnt eat, then putting it down again half an hour later for the same time and taking it away again if he leaves it. Should I be putting it down the second time or only give him the one chance?

:)
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If you feed him twice a day (breakfast and dinner) then just put it down half an hour at breakfast time, then lift it up for the rest of the day until tea time where you put it down for same amount of time and lift it up again for whole night.
If you only feed once a day, just do it for whatever time you feed him but obviously only once. My goldies are fed once a day for their main meal with a bonio after their morning walk for a snack.
 
Emma86 said:
Thank you!! I have been trying to make him think I am incharge, I will have to try eating before him...My Dad will think I have totally lost the plot!!!



I have been putting it down for 15 mins and taking it away when he doesnt eat, then putting it down again half an hour later for the same time and taking it away again if he leaves it. Should I be putting it down the second time or only give him the one chance?

:)
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You dad has a very good point.
Imo there is no need to eat before you dog, more important to teach him not to beg or greed when you eat than have him see you eating before he does:)

With feeding, offer him a small portion and if he clears it within 5 minutes add a little more in but never start with an over flowing bowl.
Don't re offer food he has not eaten until his next meal not half and hour or an hour later. If he weight is in good range and he has energy then don't worry about his eating.
The reason for this (to create a healthy) eater but be aware he is a dog in a household with no other dogs (no competition) and dogs do not need the sheer amounts us humans think they should eat, they dont expend energy like us and don't suffer energy slumps (meaning the can run for miles on silch fuel). and are designed to survive on very little.

Don't over think things OP, this could be detrimental to you/the dog and his training.
 
canteron said:
Better people than me have worked out that who gets first pick of the food is hierachical - it makes sense to me. My dog doesn't speak French, or English or German, it speaks dog!! But if you want to argue there are some very learned educational papers out there somewhere!
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Argue? I don't see it as arguing it is a difference of opinion and reasons for/against.
 
Emma86 said:
Thanks everyone for your messages, everyone's experiences and advice is SOOOO helpful!

The kennel said he loves his crate, but since being at the house I don't agree. He went in there on the first day here but looked very stressed and chewed furiously on his toys. Since then he hasn't used it much (good or bad?), so re-introducing it sounds like a good idea...re-introduce it as a positive rather than a negative association with being left at the kennels.

He is currently snoring away on the floor with a blanket of mine so we shall see what tonight brings! I am thinking of going to my room for a couple of hours as a test while he seems relaxed. I can hear him from there so I'll know if he starts to stress. Night light on and telly on low...Wish me luck! :)
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I am not sure how the kennels would know he was used to a crate/as they don't have crates in kennels unless they where trying to appease you.

You seem very sensible and patient and you can see with your own common sense that leaving him for periods in his own company very gradually and using the positive methods equals him relaxing without becoming dependant on constant company:) this is something no one has ever don for him before and indeed I wish you all the luck in the word as you are what this boy needs:)
 
Not arguing, just interested :) I know a couple of people who have studied the theory, but put a dog that isn't textbook in front of them... :p
I just don't see what hierarchy and the hierarchy of food has to do with SA.
 
Well, if the dog accepts that you're the leader, then he doesn't have to worry about where you've gone as his job to make sure the pack stays together has gone away.
 
Does a dog really think you pretending to eat out of his bowl make him think you are the leader though? Has anyone on here tried that with any great success? Why not just eat your normal food in front of them.

As mentioned, not disputing that the dog must be secure, I had a huge issue myself with my older dog being very insecure (not SA) and a minor issue with my younger dog trying to push the boundaries, but overcame it using physicality, calmness and most importantly clarity - no ambiguity. This is what happens and this is when it happens.
 
Well my dogs are fed before me in the morning because I dont eat breakfast and they are not planning world domination as far as I know.:D

As for making sure I go through door ways before them I do because its manners and my dogs have manners, its all about respect and what I say goes.

Ive seen the videos on youtube where the owner pretends to eat the dog food before the dog and I just cant understand the logic of that. To my mind that is likely to make the dog gobble his food as quickly as he can as the owner might come back for seconds.
 
Dobiegirl said:
Well my dogs are fed before me in the morning because I dont eat breakfast and they are not planning world domination as far as I know.:D

As for making sure I go through door ways before them I do because its manners and my dogs have manners, its all about respect and what I say goes.

Ive seen the videos on youtube where the owner pretends to eat the dog food before the dog and I just cant understand the logic of that. To my mind that is likely to make the dog gobble his food as quickly as he can as the owner might come back for seconds.
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LMAO:D the last bit made me have to hold myself:o
 
CAYLA said:
I am not sure how the kennels would know he was used to a crate/as they don't have crates in kennels unless they where trying to appease you.

You seem very sensible and patient and you can see with your own common sense that leaving him for periods in his own company very gradually and using the positive methods equals him relaxing without becoming dependant on constant company:) this is something no one has ever don for him before and indeed I wish you all the luck in the word as you are what this boy needs:)
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I just called the kennels to give them an update on how he was doing, they told me they couldnt beleive what I was telling them, I said he sleeps downstairs on his own bed and has been left for short periods in the day with no problem. He then said they had kept his kennel free because they thought they might have had him back by now!! So sad other peole havent had the patience with this dog....Well, its their loss!!!

Thanks again for all advice...looks like he's a keeper!
 
Well done you, you have changed his world for the better, I dare bet he has been returned so many times from people expecting far to much from a very insecure and confused dog that has never been given a chance in life. Well he sounds like he may have just found his life line:)
 
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