New drug to extent dogs life.

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

So according to radio4 there has been a new drug which extends the life of large dogs.
It is said to slow down the rate of cell division which causes large dogs to grow quickly and results in premature aging which is, apparently, the result of interbreeding for size many generations ago.
Did anyone else hear this and what do you all think?
If its a real thing it would be amazing for all owners of large breeds

 

[AmyMay]

Following (for interest).

 

[druid]

First respones from most vets I've spoken to...is this a bandaid for bad genetics?

 

[CorvusCorax]

First respones from most vets I've spoken to...is this a bandaid for bad genetics?

Hard agree.

I hate the way size and bulk is romanticised and promoted in my own breed, which is meant to be a medium/large, agile type, by people who know better. Big dogs often break quicker.

People need to breed better and exercise appropriately for breed and age rather than medicate.

 

[Bellaboo18]

Following (for interest).

Same

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

Not disagreeing with you but this has been reported as working at a cellular level so not medicating per se.

Hard agree.

I hate the way size and bulk is romanticised and promoted in my own breed, which is meant to be a medium/large, agile type, by people who know better. Big dogs often break quicker.

People need to breed better and exercise appropriately for breed and age rather than medicate.

I

 

[Morwenna]

I’d be very wary of what other effects this would have - both long and short term. I’d rather see more effort put into breeding healthy animals that are fit for purpose and not the exaggerated characteristics that seem to be the priority for so many, regardless of the impact on the health of the dog.

 

[ycbm]

Not disagreeing with you but this has been reported as working at a cellular level so not medicating per se.

I'd call slowing down cell division with a drug medicating, personally.

I would bet that long term in mass use it turns out to have all sorts of horrible side effects.
.

 

[Morwenna]

I'd call slowing down cell division with a drug medicating, personally.

I would bet that long term in mass use it turns out to have all sorts of horrible side effects.
.

Agreed. Many drugs work on a cellular level when it comes down to it. Surely slowing cell division will have all sorts of effects on cell repair, not to mention the risk of abnormalities cause by slowing growth.

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

I may not have understood the explanations of how the drug works. Perhaps someone more educated in these matters could investigate and explain? I was interested that it had been approved by the FDA.

 

[Clodagh]

Hard agree.

I hate the way size and bulk is romanticised and promoted in my own breed, which is meant to be a medium/large, agile type, by people who know better. Big dogs often break quicker.

People need to breed better and exercise appropriately for breed and age rather than medicate.

Off topic but I think you or Moobli told me the desired weight of a GSD and it’s similar to a lab. I was Gobsmacked, I thought they were giants!

 

[Cortez]

I've had a couple of giant breed dogs (Irish Wolfhounds and Great Danes), they mostly succumb to heart failure, stomach torsion and various cancers. Other than cancer, I can't see how slowing cell division is going to help the other conditions.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Off topic but I think you or Moobli told me the desired weight of a GSD and it’s similar to a lab. I was Gobsmacked, I thought they were giants!

I despair at the number of people on some GSD pages proudly announcing that their dogs are 50 kg, and won't accept they are oversize and/or overweight.

 

[Morwenna]

I despair at the number of people on some GSD pages proudly announcing that their dogs are 50 kg, and won't accept they are oversize and/or overweight.

I was on a Labrador Facebook group where so many people complained about their vets being wrong when they were told their Labs were overweight, including 6 month old labs at 30kg, always accompanied by a photo of a lab with no visible waist, rolls of fat etc. and some comment along the lines of “he’s just a chonky boy”. I replied to every one telling them their vet was correct and was removed from the group.

 

[JJS]

I was on a Labrador Facebook group where so many people complained about their vets being wrong when they were told their Labs were overweight, including 6 month old labs at 30kg, always accompanied by a photo of a lab with no visible waist, rolls of fat etc. and some comment along the lines of “he’s just a chonky boy”. I replied to every one telling them their vet was correct and was removed from the group.

In fairness, my parents Lab was 44kg in his prime with not an ounce of fat on him. Definitely oversize (he’s the tallest Lab I’ve ever seen) but not overweight. He’s a lot chunkier these days, but at almost 11, that’s sort of to be expected.

My Lab is on the other end of the spectrum. She’s less than half his height, but in her defence, she does suffer from some form of growth abnormality, so they look a right pair when they’re out for walks together!

 

[Prancerpoos]

Hmm. If it’s so good is it being trialled for humans?

 

[skinnydipper]

First respones from most vets I've spoken to...is this a bandaid for bad genetics?

Brennan McKenzie, aka The SkeptVet, is one of the directors of the company.

 

[druid]

I may not have understood the explanations of how the drug works. Perhaps someone more educated in these matters could investigate and explain? I was interested that it had been approved by the FDA.

It's not approved by the FDA, they have done a small cohort study and are now rolling out to a vet clinic based double blind companion study.

 

[druid]

Brennan McKenzie, aka The SkeptVet, is one of the directors of the company.

That doesn't change the fact that we are talking about administering a medication to alter/slow cellular pathways in giant breeds of dogs which have a shortened lifespan tied to the selection pressure of being bred for their size/height/weight. Humans screwed them up genetically and now we want to give them pills to "fix" that.

The companion trial seems to be allowing dogs over 14lbs and 10yo so the giant dog focus may be media based rather than company based.

 

[splashgirl45]

The only large breed I have owned was a deerhound and she was PTS due to arthritis in her neck,, she was almost 10

 

[skinnydipper]

That doesn't change the fact that we are talking about administering a medication to alter/slow cellular pathways in giant breeds of dogs which have a shortened lifespan tied to the selection pressure of being bred for their size/height/weight. Humans screwed them up genetically and now we want to give them pills to "fix" that.

The companion trial seems to be allowing dogs over 14lbs and 10yo so the giant dog focus may be media based rather than company based.

As you posted a link to one of his articles recently, I thought you would be interested to know of Brennan McKenzie's involvement. My mistake

 

[druid]

As you posted a link to one of his articles recently, I thought you would be interested to know of Brennan McKenzie's involvement. My mistake

You don't have to agree with everything that someone says while thinking they speak sense a lot of the time?

My main concern with a drug like this is that it seems be a cash cow for the manufacturer, dog needs to be on it for life etc. etc.

 

[Wishfilly]

If it impacts the rate of cell division, does that have implications for wound healing etc? I would be concerned that it could have unintended side effects.

Have the results of the small cohort study been published?

 

[skinnydipper]

You don't have to agree with everything that someone says while thinking they speak sense a lot of the time?

My main concern with a drug like this is that it seems be a cash cow for the manufacturer, dog needs to be on it for life etc. etc.

I didn't comment on the rights or wrongs of the drug though it isn't something I would want for my own large dog.

I thought if you weren't already aware that you might be interested to know of his involvement with the company.

 

[druid]

I wrongly assumed you felt his involvement gave the medication more ethical weight. Apologies on that front.

 

[ycbm]

If it impacts the rate of cell division, does that have implications for wound healing etc? I would be concerned that it could have unintended side effects.

Have the results of the small cohort study been published?

Wound healing? Mucus membrane's fast repair (eyes, gut lining?). Skin thinning? Slowing damaged cell rejection (might increase cancer)?

I'd want to see a ten year study on a lot of dogs before I'd give it to an animal I owned.
.

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

I understand that that is the thinking going forward although I maybe completely wrong on that.
I don't have 'a dog in this fight' (a quite offensive imho) but it will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
I was wrong to say it had been approved by the FDA, it has been given a kind of first stage approval to, I guess, continue evaluating it.

 

[Wishfilly]

Wound healing? Mucus membrane's fast repair (eyes, gut lining?). Skin thinning? Damaged cell rejection (might increase cancer)?

I'd want to see a ten year study on a lot of dogs before I'd give it to an animal I owned.
.

I'd feel the same, I think.

It feels like such a huge thing- to interfere with normal cell division in a living organism- that I can't help but feel there must be some negative consequences. I know this is an emotional reaction not a scientific one!

I know it can be heartbreaking to own large breed dogs, but I'm not sure this is the way forward.

 

[Alwaysmoretoknow]

Got to say though, I do wish they could make my lovely big dogs live as long as my horses.

 

[SilverLinings]

As there would still be quite a few other things large dogs could die prematurely from I would certainly want to see long-term study results before I considered it. I am not convinced at the moment that it won't be a case of 'robbing Peter to pay Paul', but if that is the case it should become apparent during the trials.

Of course I want all my animals to live as long as possible, but only if they are healthy and happy for that life, and have no side effects from a 'life-prolonging' drug (ETA or other form of treatment). I think with regards to most breeds of dog we would have more success in prolonging average life length by improving breeding practices and ceasing to shrink gene pools.