New Gelding Showing Food Aggression & Ridden Behaviour Changing

[MelJ0690]

Hi, searching for any advice on my new gelding (10 weeks since arriving) and all was going great until around a week or so later he started being very aggressive in the stable. He shows food aggression and if you come in with a haynet, he acts like he's going to protect it at all costs - ears pinned, eyes wide, nostrils flared, opens mouth, bites the net forcefully and definitely won't let you take it away. It was a battle to hang the net until I've decided its not worth the stress for both him and me and now tie him up and only ever take him to food, never bring food to him. Thats helped a lot and we have a more relaxed time. I should point out that he's currently (and has been since arriving) stabled on his own, we have our own farm and things have taken longer to get sorted than planned, another stable is up and hoping to have company arrive for him within the next 2 weeks.

So, 6 weeks of having him his ridden behaviour also changed. He seems angry when saddle appears, swishes tail, looks to bite, more so on one side than the other, started bronking after mounting - we can set off and all seems fine but he then a minute or so later he starts, usually at the same place on the road but the other day also did it in the arena for the very 1st time - but thats after 5mins of him not standing at the mounting block as it seems like he doesn't want me to get on.

Had 5 stage when bought, physio sessions, teeth checked and scoped but zero ulcers, having saddle re-fit again next week as he was lacking muscle and topline and now getting fitter, he's definitely filled out a bit more. Considering back x-rays as nothing showing as obvious.

Any help/advice appreciated!

 

[Gloi]

Is he getting plenty of turnout? He sounds frustrated and missing company.

 

[saddlesore]

I think he’s pretty miserable tbh. They’re obviously herd animals and get stressed and sleep deprived on their own. They can get trapped in a state of hyper-vigilance as a result. If you can’t him a friend or 2 asap I’d move him to livery. I think you’ll have a much happier horse.

 

[shanti]

Try and look at it from the horse's perspective. He is in a totally new environment with people he doesn't know, new routines, new food and he has no friends of his own kind, which, as a herd animal is a huge issue (I know some can be kept alone but it's not in their make-up really)
He is sad, confused, miserable and stressed. I know you said he had been scoped before you got him but ulcers can come on quickly at any time so I definitely wouldn't rule them out especially due to the stress of moving.

When I brought my young horse home my others were not yet on the property due to a transport issue. He was on his own for a week and it was horrible to watch, and his behavior was insane, he was so hyper-vigilant I couldn't do anything with him. When we brought the others over my non-horsey husband was amazed at the immediate change in his demeanor, even down to the way he stood and grazed. Not many horses can cope with being alone. I still feel guilty for doing that to him.

 

[meleeka]

Could be anything, ulcers, saddle fit causing soreness, insecurity due to being alone, lack of turnout etc, etc.

 

[Timelyattraction]

I would start with getting your saddle re checked. Get him a friend asap and give him a couple weeks and if saddle ok and he’s still doing it then a full work up at the vets including a scope. If hes been on his own the last few months in a new home that alone could be enough to bring on ulcers. How much turnout is he getting?

 

[cauda equina]

Does he need to be stabled at all?
If not and your land will stand it I'd keep him out full time and get a companion as soon as possible

 

[AmyMay]

Does he have enough grass?

 

[TheMule]

Poor horse sounds very stressed due to the situation you have put him in. Company asap, truly ad-lib food, more turnout and some veterinary intervention- sounds like he has stress induced ulcers at the very least

 

[MelJ0690]

Thanks so much for all for the replys,

I turn him out as much as I can, obviously the weather has been horrendous and fields get very wet and boggy up here (Manchester) but I try my best to turn out atleast 3x a week as I think it's always best for them to 'chill out' and let off steam, and especially for him being a big Irish Sport horse.

I did have at the forefront of my mind that it could be him being on his own and can show in many different ways. It's our priority to get another one up here asap, I have someone waiting for us to be ready for them, so I'm hoping that will be within the next week (ideally). I hated him being alone but unfortunately, with a lot of things going on, it's just took so much longer than anticipated. @shanti that is interesting - I really hope he relaxes as much as that when they arrive! I do feel horrible. I did have someone come to meet us a couple of weeks ago from another yard to go for a hack and my god he bronked!! Like a rodeo! Later, realised the saddle (or numnah) had been rubbing on his back as coat was shiny on both sides of his spine, so put his behaviour then down to that (I did have the saddle fit too)....aswell as seeing another horse (mare) and maybe becoming very excited, along with rushing him to tack up - i think he's very sensitive, he hates a dandy brush!! Anything too hard & harsh, he hates. He also had an issue with his head/ears being touched initially, but with patient persistence, we are pretty much over that and he relaxes when gently grooming him and I get him resting his head on my shoulder! Completely different to 10mins before when feeding!

Everyone who meets him (out of the stable!) thinks he's a lovely horse and with great potential & I don't think he really wants to be that way in the stable if honest. When he works, he's amazing, and hacking nothing fases him - lorries, diggers etc he's not bothered in the slightest, I just don't want his behaviour when we mount/ set off riding at the minute to over shadow what could be, as obviously, the more times things happen, its knocking my confidence. The stable situation is not ideal, but we mitigate alot of that now with careful handling and routine.

I will do all I can to rule things out otherwise and get scoped again xx

 

[AmyMay]

If you’re not turning him out are you at least exercising him properly? How much land do you have if you can’t support one horse on turnout during winter?

 

[ester]

I'd be super stressed and bloody miserable too. I wouldn't be rushing to do back xrays until his management is sorted.

 

[DabDab]

Sorry OP but I think with being on his own and not getting daily turnout he is not set up for success at all. Most horses would not cope well in those circumstances.
Until you can sort out better management for him you are in danger of just giving him bad associations with everything you do do with him.

 

[w1bbler]

Just to add, is he getting enough forage if he's attacking a haynet. Alone & bored in a stable he should at least have ad lib forage

 

[MidChristmasCrisis]

It can take time to settle in with a new owner..but you ve got to minimise stress and maximise the opportunities for success. Daily turn out with other horses, plenty of forage (grass/hay/haylage) less hard feed. An instructor to watch ridden behaviours and to teach you both. Food aggression could be because it’s the only highlight of his day and he s hungry. The unwanted ridden behaviours could be ulcers if he’s stressed or just no trust or faith in you to ill fitting tack. Definitely seek some experienced assistance.

 

[sportsmansB]

Unfortunately I think this situation is almost to be expected, I have a 20yo gelding who would be literally impossible in these circumstances and he's retired from riding...
We owe it to horses to provide their basic needs and he is telling you that his are not being met right now.
Can you pop him on livery for a few weeks until you get everything sorted? Even full ridden livery to get him going again so that when you bring him home to a suitable environment it is ready for him and both of you start with a clean slate? Might be easier to find something short term on this basis, understandably DIY yards don't cater to shorter term guests. Or holiday livery for a couple of weeks?
10 weeks alone with restricted turnout is a long time for a horse, I'd be assuming he was terribly shut down if he wasn't showing signs of being fed up with it, to be honest.

 

[ester]

1) get other horse now
2) put both horses in field
3) give him time to decompress

then reassess.

 

[Birker2020]

Thanks so much for all for the replys,

I turn him out as much as I can, obviously the weather has been horrendous and fields get very wet and boggy up here (Manchester) but I try my best to turn out atleast 3x a week as I think it's always best for them to 'chill out' and let off steam, and especially for him being a big Irish Sport horse.

I did have at the forefront of my mind that it could be him being on his own and can show in many different ways. It's our priority to get another one up here asap, I have someone waiting for us to be ready for them, so I'm hoping that will be within the next week (ideally). I hated him being alone but unfortunately, with a lot of things going on, it's just took so much longer than anticipated. @shanti that is interesting - I really hope he relaxes as much as that when they arrive! I do feel horrible. I did have someone come to meet us a couple of weeks ago from another yard to go for a hack and my god he bronked!! Like a rodeo! Later, realised the saddle (or numnah) had been rubbing on his back as coat was shiny on both sides of his spine, so put his behaviour then down to that (I did have the saddle fit too)....aswell as seeing another horse (mare) and maybe becoming very excited, along with rushing him to tack up - i think he's very sensitive, he hates a dandy brush!! Anything too hard & harsh, he hates. He also had an issue with his head/ears being touched initially, but with patient persistence, we are pretty much over that and he relaxes when gently grooming him and I get him resting his head on my shoulder! Completely different to 10mins before when feeding!

Everyone who meets him (out of the stable!) thinks he's a lovely horse and with great potential & I don't think he really wants to be that way in the stable if honest. When he works, he's amazing, and hacking nothing fases him - lorries, diggers etc he's not bothered in the slightest, I just don't want his behaviour when we mount/ set off riding at the minute to over shadow what could be, as obviously, the more times things happen, its knocking my confidence. The stable situation is not ideal, but we mitigate alot of that now with careful handling and routine.

I will do all I can to rule things out otherwise and get scoped again xx

Instead of turning him out 3 times a week, turn him out for a few hours daily, or split it, so two hours morning, two hours afternoon, whichever is easiest for you.
I feel a bit sorry for him, he is trying to tell you he is unhappy. I know you are trying to do the best for him and I totally get that. I personally would think about getting him xrayed for kissing spine if his behaviour continues to deteriorate after he has been turned out reguarly with a friend.

Have you thought about how you will cope with separation anxiety if you have a second and one needs to be ridden? You need to nip that in the bud as soon as it happens (if it happens). Sorry to give you even more to think about.

He sounds like a lovely horse but I suspect the mounting/setting off is a good indication of a back issue of some sort, lets just hope it is the saddle and not KS. This was when Lari threw shapes the most and also very uncomfortable when I did his girth up which led me to thinking it was ulcers and him scoping negative, when in fact it was KS.

Good luck and I mean that with total sincerity. Its hard having a new horse and all the things that can happen.

 

[ycbm]

All the advice above, but meanwhile I'd get him on 100ml of aloe vera (benefit has been tested and proven) in each of 2 feeds, to try and stave off ulcers, if he doesn't have them already. Ulcers sound likely but I wouldn't want to starve and scope him until things are settled with his management.
.

 

[millitiger]

Is it possible to put him into livery for 6-12 months, while you get to know him?

There would be company and routine, choose somewhere with turn out.
You would also have company yourself through this period and an experienced YO to lean on?

I honestly think that would be best for both of you, if possible.

 

[MelJ0690]

If you’re not turning him out are you at least exercising him properly? How much land do you have if you can’t support one horse on turnout during winter?

Yes, he gets exercised 5x per week, x2 days off in the field and I have my own arena, so if I'm not on his back, I'm lunging, or hacking, and generally out for an hour, ensuring we're doing some hill work too. I have 10acres which are just his, split into different fields and more acres on the farm which I can use if cattle not out/or he is happy to be turned out with them which I haven't assessed yet - my x2 old mares were more than happy with them. We have had x3 more rainfall in February this year, and along with being on clay soil, things unfortunately, get boggy.

 

[AmyMay]

So plenty of land to turn out on. Get him out.

 

[MelJ0690]

Unfortunately I think this situation is almost to be expected, I have a 20yo gelding who would be literally impossible in these circumstances and he's retired from riding...
We owe it to horses to provide their basic needs and he is telling you that his are not being met right now.
Can you pop him on livery for a few weeks until you get everything sorted? Even full ridden livery to get him going again so that when you bring him home to a suitable environment it is ready for him and both of you start with a clean slate? Might be easier to find something short term on this basis, understandably DIY yards don't cater to shorter term guests. Or holiday livery for a couple of weeks?
10 weeks alone with restricted turnout is a long time for a horse, I'd be assuming he was terribly shut down if he wasn't showing signs of being fed up with it, to be honest.

This is something I'm going to look into today - I have a show jumping yard next door who does take schooling livery too so I'm going to look into him going on there, atleast until stable ready and other horse arrived. Hopefully that way it will also help for him to disassociate the negativity with me and can start a fresh when back and stabled in a new area on our farm. @Birker2020 the seperation anxiety is another issue on my mind! I really hope he doesn't get like that. If I do the above and then bring him back to company, and meet up with others to hack, I'm hoping it will give him more social situations so when the odd time we do hack alone, it's not too much of a big deal. We went to a combined training clinic a couple of weeks ago and I was a little worried how he would behave but wanted to get him out and see others. He was a star!! Even when other horses were bucking in the turnout pens he didn't react (which I know would have been absolutely understandable if he did!) and was fine with his hay and was just a normal, content horse. I have an instructor who comes to us x1 a week who knows whats happened, how he is in the stable and has helped to try and mitigate the ridden issues and when we have our lesson, she's always so impressed on how much he comes on in the week and how he works x

 

[Jenko109]

I'm confused why he is on such alarmingly restrictive turnout when you have access to so much land?

 

[southerncomfort]

So plenty of land to turn out on. Get him out.

This. He doesn't care if its wet or boggy.

You need to turn him out daily and make getting him some company an absolute priority.

I'm sorry OP but that horse is telling you how unhappy he is. Please listen.

 

[MelJ0690]

I'm confused why he is on such alarmingly restrictive turnout when you have access to so much land?

We have had x3 more rainfall in February this year, and along with being on clay soil, things unfortunately, get boggy. if I turned him out constantly now, this would mean, when Spring/Summer comes around and he's out everyday, he'll have no grass to eat whatsoever. He goes out x3 a week currently, yesterday, was out from 8.30am until 5.30pm. I do speak regularly to my vets, they are great at keeping intouch with me to find out how he is doing, like my vet said, hers arent even out at all at the minute because of how bad her fields are, so he's doing well with the turnout he gets.

he gets ad-lib hay, x2 meals a day also and if not out, he also gets grass chop as well as all the toys i can find at the saddlery to keep him occupied

 

[poiuytrewq]

10 acres is a lot! I have a field of about 3 and my horses have been out on it every day or night- a minimum of 8/9 hours, often more. I admittedly am lucky im not on clay but ground comes back. I just dont understand why everyone these days puts their field over their horses, because that's ultimately what it boils down too.
Horses don't melt or wash away. They also get used to being out. Mine are in either day or night but they are never waiting to come in.

 

[AmyMay]

You’ve got 10 acres for 1 horse!!

I’m out.

 

[ycbm]

We have had x3 more rainfall in February this year, and along with being on clay soil, things unfortunately, get boggy. if I turned him out constantly now, this would mean, when Spring/Summer comes around and he's out everyday, he'll have no grass to eat whatsoever.

I'm sorry but I've managed 10 acres of moorland in a wet area near Manchester and I can't see how one horse on 10 acres is going to create that problem.
.

 

[ycbm]

so he's doing well with the turnout he gets

No, he isn't, he's a desperately unhappy horse as you've described yourself.

He would be better off out every day for half the time, but I don't accept your argument that he can't go out all day every day on 10 acres unless you are one of those people who insist that their paddocks look like croquet lawns (who shouldnt keep horses).
.