New Hay and the Laminitis Rollercoaster

Suncat

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2012
Messages
140
Location
South Wales
Visit site
Greetings H&H Hive Mind.

My 10yr gelding has always been grass sensitive, up until now successfully managed with track grazing and hay in the spring and summer, but this year’s weather brought a bout of mild laminitis that only resolved with a few weeks of box rest, soaked hay diet and then turn out in a bare patch, building that up by tiny increments to a small strip. When I got optimistic about his ability to cope with a little more grass (advancing the strip) I found out I was wrong, with the digital pulse/heat barometer starting to go off and taking a few days to calm back down. So… yep… my sensitive good doer now seems to be very, very sensitive. He’s tested clear for EMS, but is on herbal supplements as we (vet, podiatrist, my absolute legend of retired vet) all think there a hormonal/metabolic element involved (horse is a PRE Pbred).

Anyhow, he has been comfy, healthy and now back in work for a good month. But, like a lot we’ve also got a hay supply problem. Our farmer has run out of our hay (part of our livery all winter and can then buy through most of summer) until the this years is ready to feed in a month or so (its wrapped hay). Hay costs locally are all over place, but another local farmer will supply at a reasonable price and have been feeding his last year’s hay with no problem for a good few weeks. BUT that’s now run out and my only choice (without some real financial sacrifices) is his new hay. This is a month old now, not wrapped and (from a human perspective) absolutely lovely. As in, it’s fairly green, meadow grass I think, not corse and not dusty. Of course I was pretty worried that feeding this dry would be too nutrient rich and fast absorbing for him, and I don’t have any idea of the sugar content (this year I’d fear high)…. But thought keeping on soaking it for 12hrs as I do would reduce the impact a lot?

So, a few days since starting this, I was sure he was a hesitant/foot sore on the gravelly bit of track we have to cross daily , then this morning – strong pulses all round. As our field is overlooked by the farm houses I manfully resisted the urge to lay down in the field and cry. And the fact that its wet because its actually been raining here for a few days!

I’ve immediately cut the volume of soaked new hay, mixed it with 1 third feed straw and 1 third old hay donated by yard mate. Here’s my questions finally!
  1. It’s the hay right? Its has finally rained properly here after 6wks+ of nothing, but his strip is pretty bare, its literally a few tufts of grass. I last extended is (12ft square) 72hrs ago.
  2. Could it be swapping to quickly? We don’t have lots of storage of these big bales. So I was almost out of the old before the new arrived. I tried to hold some back and mixed a few nets of both but didn’t realises (face-palm-here) how different they would be.
  3. Is there anything I can do to make it safe to feed? I think for non-wrapped hay it is what it is, now? As in, if I leave it for a month, it won’t get any less rocket-fuel-y? Is mixing it with feed straw a safe call? He’s a bugger for picking it out but he does eat the straw, particularly when hungry!
  4. Any experience on horses getting crazy sensitive this year or just as they get older? Any chance it can recede at all? I have to keep him alone in the strip as there’s nothing else that is that needs that level of restriction, so he gets no physical contact though his mates are in the field the strip is in and hang about with him. Am just worried he’ll won't be able to go back out expect in proper winter… up until this year he’s always been able to cope with a night out every few days when the grass is stable.
I know ‘get rid of it and buy different older tested hay’ is a very sensible safe answer (and I’ve got some small bales of last year’s hay coming from our feed merchant but of course no tests for it or idea where its from) but I’m also loath to just loose this lot, I may be able to resell one unopened bale but the cost via the other local sellers is literally +60% and the only tested one I’ve found would need me to sell a kidney. I also fear everything local this year will be full of sugar because of the drought conditions...

Any advice and thoughts welcomed! And thanks for reading, I think I needed a bit of a vent… every time we have a set back I get into a bit of a panic about how I’m going to manage to keep him healthy and happy. But am so thankful our farmer and yard mates are the best bunch of reasonable people, so I do have more options than many on livery.

Have a cuppa and a biscuit on me x
 

bouncing_ball

Well-Known Member
Joined
30 October 2012
Messages
1,567
Visit site
I'd get hay tested, think Dodson and Horrell and others will tell you how much sugar in each off your hay options, about £15 a sample I think.
 

Burnttoast

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 March 2009
Messages
2,914
Visit site
My neighbour's sensitive Iberian had bouts of acute lami after her owner had had her field sprayed (despite waiting the regulation time). I would ask if your hay was sprayed. Selective herbicides are endocrine disruptors and lami is basically an endocrine disease. For this reason I'd be reluctant to feed straw too :(

Sugar levels don't drop in older hay but other nutrients do, particularly certain vitamins.
 

Pinkvboots

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 August 2010
Messages
24,252
Location
Hertfordshire
Visit site
My guess is there is something triggering the response from grass I really would try to get to the bottom of it, I know his only 10 but a cushings test might be my next thing seen as the ems was clear, or you could see if putting him on some of the medication for ems will help not all tests are accurate in my experience.

It could be the grass growth but with the hay as well its tipping him over the edge, I would get some old hay and mix with straw for now, then as time goes on you should be able to start on the new stuff.
 

ILuvCowparsely

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 April 2010
Messages
14,814
Visit site
Greetings H&H Hive Mind.

My 10yr gelding has always been grass sensitive, up until now successfully managed with track grazing and hay in the spring and summer, but this year’s weather brought a bout of mild laminitis that only resolved with a few weeks of box rest, soaked hay diet and then turn out in a bare patch, building that up by tiny increments to a small strip. When I got optimistic about his ability to cope with a little more grass (advancing the strip) I found out I was wrong, with the digital pulse/heat barometer starting to go off and taking a few days to calm back down. So… yep… my sensitive good doer now seems to be very, very sensitive. He’s tested clear for EMS, but is on herbal supplements as we (vet, podiatrist, my absolute legend of retired vet) all think there a hormonal/metabolic element involved (horse is a PRE Pbred).

Anyhow, he has been comfy, healthy and now back in work for a good month. But, like a lot we’ve also got a hay supply problem. Our farmer has run out of our hay (part of our livery all winter and can then buy through most of summer) until the this years is ready to feed in a month or so (its wrapped hay). Hay costs locally are all over place, but another local farmer will supply at a reasonable price and have been feeding his last year’s hay with no problem for a good few weeks. BUT that’s now run out and my only choice (without some real financial sacrifices) is his new hay. This is a month old now, not wrapped and (from a human perspective) absolutely lovely. As in, it’s fairly green, meadow grass I think, not corse and not dusty. Of course I was pretty worried that feeding this dry would be too nutrient rich and fast absorbing for him, and I don’t have any idea of the sugar content (this year I’d fear high)…. But thought keeping on soaking it for 12hrs as I do would reduce the impact a lot?

So, a few days since starting this, I was sure he was a hesitant/foot sore on the gravelly bit of track we have to cross daily , then this morning – strong pulses all round. As our field is overlooked by the farm houses I manfully resisted the urge to lay down in the field and cry. And the fact that its wet because its actually been raining here for a few days!

I’ve immediately cut the volume of soaked new hay, mixed it with 1 third feed straw and 1 third old hay donated by yard mate. Here’s my questions finally!
  1. It’s the hay right? Its has finally rained properly here after 6wks+ of nothing, but his strip is pretty bare, its literally a few tufts of grass. I last extended is (12ft square) 72hrs ago.
  2. Could it be swapping to quickly? We don’t have lots of storage of these big bales. So I was almost out of the old before the new arrived. I tried to hold some back and mixed a few nets of both but didn’t realises (face-palm-here) how different they would be.
  3. Is there anything I can do to make it safe to feed? I think for non-wrapped hay it is what it is, now? As in, if I leave it for a month, it won’t get any less rocket-fuel-y? Is mixing it with feed straw a safe call? He’s a bugger for picking it out but he does eat the straw, particularly when hungry!
  4. Any experience on horses getting crazy sensitive this year or just as they get older? Any chance it can recede at all? I have to keep him alone in the strip as there’s nothing else that is that needs that level of restriction, so he gets no physical contact though his mates are in the field the strip is in and hang about with him. Am just worried he’ll won't be able to go back out expect in proper winter… up until this year he’s always been able to cope with a night out every few days when the grass is stable.
I know ‘get rid of it and buy different older tested hay’ is a very sensible safe answer (and I’ve got some small bales of last year’s hay coming from our feed merchant but of course no tests for it or idea where its from) but I’m also loath to just loose this lot, I may be able to resell one unopened bale but the cost via the other local sellers is literally +60% and the only tested one I’ve found would need me to sell a kidney. I also fear everything local this year will be full of sugar because of the drought conditions...

Any advice and thoughts welcomed! And thanks for reading, I think I needed a bit of a vent… every time we have a set back I get into a bit of a panic about how I’m going to manage to keep him healthy and happy. But am so thankful our farmer and yard mates are the best bunch of reasonable people, so I do have more options than many on livery.

Have a cuppa and a biscuit on me x
Personally I was taught don't use new hay for 3 months so I don't.


One of my liveries insists i give her it and she has the squits really bad, your best off finding old hay or timothy haylage. I have only got three laminitis horses and would never feed new hay,
 

Grassy

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 June 2020
Messages
182
Visit site
I used to feed the horsehage blue which is very low sugar & starch, sorry I realise that’s not what you were asking
 

PurBee

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 November 2019
Messages
5,980
Visit site
Gut upset can be a cause for acute lami-attacks, footiness. Change of feed/hay or grazing can cauge gut biome changes/distress/bloating. As youve been struggling with yours for a while, have you tried giving regular probiotics, like Protexin?

Regarding soaking forage - 12hrs is a long time and it can stew and ferment, creating possibility of other bacterial growth. I‘d try soaking cold water 4hrs max, agitate at end of 4 hours to make water reddish colour. Pull, drain, feed straight away.
There’s many soaking protocols, but leaving too long to soak, or to be stored after soaking to feed 12hrs later, are a possible way of the forage turning ‘off’ and causing issues by itself.
 

tda

Well-Known Member
Joined
18 April 2013
Messages
4,813
Location
Yorkshire
Visit site
I was taught not to feed new hay until the next year I.e.January, but I am also struggling to find any round here to see me thru.
 

Gamebird

Well-Known Member
Joined
26 April 2007
Messages
8,593
Visit site
When it rains, grass grows. If your strip looks bare then it is because the new growth is being eaten as quickly as it's growing, so you don't see it. If you look at other non-grazed areas (verges, your lawn etc.) they will be springing up.
 

Burnttoast

Well-Known Member
Joined
15 March 2009
Messages
2,914
Visit site
When it rains, grass grows. If your strip looks bare then it is because the new growth is being eaten as quickly as it's growing, so you don't see it. If you look at other non-grazed areas (verges, your lawn etc.) they will be springing up.
That's true to a degree but any area that is close-grazed regularly will have slower grass growth than mown or non-grazed areas owning to compaction and root die-back.
 

Suncat

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 February 2012
Messages
140
Location
South Wales
Visit site
thanks for all the replies everyone, much appreciated. A good few things for me to look - but (RE soaking times) - does anyone have a good ideas for how to soaking hay for more than an hour and less than four, while working full time and having your horse away from home and on DIY?
I basically soak hay for 10+ hrs because that's the periods of time between my two possible daily visits to the yard. On many evenings, I could get an hours soak completed while I ride or do other jobs, but in the morning I can't often be there for longer than 45min total? It is a very good point about soaking time, I already keep the soaking bin in the shade as I've been concerned about how warm the water can get in this hot weather. Hay is always feed straight away and any left over disposed of.

I could see how I might be able to rig up a timer to drain the soaker at a given time, but that would still leave the soaked hay sitting there until I arrive. I can't see obviously how I could automate filling the bin as I can't leave the single tap connected for long...
 
Top