new horse came yesterday - bucked me off today

hessy12 said:
An expert rider (who rides naughty horses for a living) is taking him out for me today or tomorrow, and then the following day will accompany me on a bike. Tonight, after repeated ground work and grooming, i am going to ride him round the field. She thinks what he did was unacceptable, given that he is used to hacking alone and has done all the PC things and travelled to many places and been ridden from a trailer in new places.
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Good, sounds like the right move.

hessy12 said:
He really does seem like a completely different horse. I am considering getting the bloods tested from his 5-stage vetting last Thursday, but with no receipt i know i have no chance of proving much. I feel SO, SO stupid for being a trusting person with his sellers.
My costly lesson is learnt, for if he does not improve, with LOTS and LOTS of time and patience, taking it slowly, how on earth would I sell him?

My boys' little mare, who is older at 16, came here, settled, was hacked out lead rope and never really batted an eye lid. Is this just the luck of the draw, or have i bought a horse that was drugged?
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Not necessarily drugged. Horse with issues don't necessarily display these issues every day in every situation. They're still issues and ethically should be disclosed. In practicality, a lot of sellers are just pleased that the horse behaved on the day of trial and what presents itself later is the purchaser's tough luck - sold as seen. Plus getting bloods tested costs an absolute fortune.

I've been on a lot of yards and known a lot of horses over the years and I can genuinely say the ones who were tw ats when they arrived stayed tw ats. Sometimes the owners learned to deal with it, sometimes they didn't.

OP, if he really bucked you off, ie you didn't just fall off because he had a bit of a moment, don't waste weeks persevering. In order to sell him you either sell him for a reduced price as a project disclosing what's happened, or trade him in or take what you can get from a dealer.
 
I have owned and ridden horses since aged 4, am now 37, so cannot be described as novice. I have hunted, XC, SJ, dressaged and then hacked a great deal.
Yes, i was a little nervous when leading him, wouldn't you be? I was firm and insistent he did as he was told. He didn't do anything wrong but was on his toes. He responded well to instruction.
However, at the end of the day, he did throw a BIG buck yesterday, after having launched himself into canter and then galloped off. My seat is secure.
I am now confused by conflicting advice and wish i'd never posted, now i feel like it's my fault, when deep down, i know what he did was WRONG, a decent horses do NOT do that sort of thing. I rode him just the same as i did at old owner's house.
Which leads me to feel he was doped and bloods need testing. It's a complete mess.
 
Horses find their security in other horses; in the absence of other horses they can find some comfort in other familiar animals, including people. A herd in the wild is usually constructed over years and is a very complex organism.

Horses genuinely fear for their lives in a situation where everything has changed, their stable/field friends, with whom they will have formed a strong bond, their familiar surroundings. Can you imagine giving a small child, with no ability to verbally communicate, to a group of strangers and you can get some idea of the level of fear involved.

He needs a routine, he needs understanding and he needs someone who cares about his welfare. It can take months for a horse to properly settle in – give the poor thing a chance.
 
Hi,

I too think it's a case of over-reacting a little. Give him time to settle in - to get used to you and his surroundings. You just need to be with him a bit - groom him, lead him out, make a fuss of him but also ensure that there are boundaries too of course. At the end of the day, when you want to ride a horse and get the best out of them, you have to have some kind of connection - they're not machines.

Just take it slowly and you'll get there! He can't be expected to be on top form/best behaviour after such a short amount of time at your yard.

Good luck!
 
hessy12 said:
I have owned and ridden horses since aged 4, am now 37, so cannot be described as novice. I have hunted, XC, SJ, dressaged and then hacked a great deal.
Yes, i was a little nervous when leading him, wouldn't you be? I was firm and insistent he did as he was told. He didn't do anything wrong but was on his toes. He responded well to instruction.
However, at the end of the day, he did throw a BIG buck yesterday, after having launched himself into canter and then galloped off. My seat is secure.
I am now confused by conflicting advice and wish i'd never posted, now i feel like it's my fault, when deep down, i know what he did was WRONG, a decent horses do NOT do that sort of thing. I rode him just the same as i did at old owner's house.
Which leads me to feel he was doped and bloods need testing. It's a complete mess.
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People arent stating it is your fault, most are agreeing that what the horse did was unacceptable but in the same breath you are expecting a new animal to you and you to him to go and carry on his life where he left off and i feel this where the issue comes in.
Assuming he is drugged is jumping the gun after only having him 3 days.. dont get me wrong- after a week or two weeks yes but 3 days?

I have bought two duds in my time, so i am sympathetic however your giving no time for settling in. No horse is the same, the last pony may have not batted an eyelid but this is not the last pony- im suprised someone with your amount of experience would not have already come to this conclusion?
 
Ruthnmeg said:
If Iam right in thinking (maybe wrong?) CB's are bred to be carrage horses, preferably in teams of 4? The only CB horse I knew first hand, couldn't cope being on his own, but WAS ok in company.
As for your experiance, sorry it happened - hope you are ok. BUT alarm bells are ringing when 'previous owner doen't want to know'. Any horse can take months to settle in a new place, but bucking and reacting like your horse did, considering he is unfit and fat?? doesn't seem quite right.
I'd give it another few weeks, keeping in contact with previous owner, so they have a record of whats going on - whether they like it or not. If he hasn't improved by X time, then send him back. (be prepared to lose money on it though).
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Complete and utter **** - All my CB's have been hacked out for miles and miles on their own, encountering other horses and every type of vehicle - forget the breeding - any horse can and WILL buck, especially if startled - you now know it might happen, either get someone else to ride him, hack out with you and be ready to ride forward. I know I sound harsh but I owned a Han X TB and that used to buck me off on a daily basis until I learnt to kick her on.

Buck can react at shows depending on the environment so yes I do think you need a bit of time to let the horse settle - you have removed him from an existing herd and are introducing him to a new one - a bit like the first day in a new job for us.

Good luck with him, due to his breeding he will be worth it in the end
 
MontyandZoom said:
I have to agree with AmyMay. Sometimes horses buck, it doesn't mean that they are not safe allrounders 99% of the time. My old boy had been in the same place for 3 years with me and was 28 years old. We went out IN COMPANY on a hacking route we had done twice a week for 3 years and one day he did the most almighty flybuck!! (all four hooves touched and went 'clink' rodeo style)

He also spun round and buggered off. I managed to stay on, just. To this day I have NO idea what caused that! Bee sting, ghost, gust of wind, just general being an ********ness??

Give him a few days, you may soon see the return of the lovely horse you tried. If you don't, sell him on, there are alot of people who don't mind horses that throw the occasional buck.
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actually - given my last reply a few pages back, I've had a re-think, so ditto the above.

I do think it all depends on the buck as someone else said. Yes, as I said it happened to me, i got bronced off my new horse on day 2 and it all went wrong but that was a proper bronc, humping in the middle and I had no hope of sitting it, I was also riding in an enclosed space and merely adjusting stirrups when it happened.

However, I had at the time just sold my horse who was a forward going but safe ride, as a mother daughter share, and heard from his new owners that he had bucked with the daughter on day 2 and she had stayed on but got a fright. Now I couldnt say he would never ever put in a wee buck - but on day 2 they took him for a hack across the stubble fields, with another horse and all their dogs. My advice was obviously that it was too much too soon - that was back in Feb and he has settled and they are out and about and just loving him.

the first few times I rode a new horse I would always do so in a school or enclosed area and just take it easy. I wouldnt go out with someone on a bike, or into an open field. It does take a little while to get used to how a new horse rides and for them to get used to your aids.

My new horse, who is fab, arrived about 5 weeks ago. At age 7, having been out and competed a lot and done PC camp etc I had certain expectations. He only travelled an hour to us, and so I took him off the trailer, tacked him up and rode him. My husband was on foot and all I did was walk and trot for about 20 mins. Didnt ask much of him. He put in 2 major spooks to be fair; the cows in the adjoining field to mine charged over and he spun right round and took off; and walking to my school, he saw a neighbours automatic/robotic lawnmower thing and did the same. But both times it was controllable and he accepted my reassurance and came back to get on with the job in hand. He hasnt spun round or spooked that badly since. We have had the odd little buck... but thats been it. I have also been having 2 lessons a week on him.

My re-considered advice would be to get a good RI, get him in a school and get a lesson on him:p then you can reconsider your thoughts.....

hope this helps and sorry its such an essay but having slept on my reply last night I felt I should explain better
 
hessy12 said:
I have owned and ridden horses since aged 4, am now 37, so cannot be described as novice. I have hunted, XC, SJ, dressaged and then hacked a great deal.
Yes, i was a little nervous when leading him, wouldn't you be? I was firm and insistent he did as he was told. He didn't do anything wrong but was on his toes. He responded well to instruction.
However, at the end of the day, he did throw a BIG buck yesterday, after having launched himself into canter and then galloped off. My seat is secure.
I am now confused by conflicting advice and wish i'd never posted, now i feel like it's my fault, when deep down, i know what he did was WRONG, a decent horses do NOT do that sort of thing. I rode him just the same as i did at old owner's house.
Which leads me to feel he was doped and bloods need testing. It's a complete mess.
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Sorry, I certainly didn't mean to imply that anything was your fault.

I would never have described myself as a novice rider or owner - my new horse put paid to that, and really did teach me a thing or two when I first got him :cool::o:) He's an absolute saint - but as I said, very, very unsettled when I first got him - and I must admit I would have sent him back within a fortnight of having him...... But I didn't. And he's wonderful.

So, onwards and upwards. You have someone more experienced than you to help out, and the experience yourself to work through the initial teething problems.

Horses, generally, like to please - and very few are bad eggs. Don't throw the towel in after such a short time. Give him time to settle, get yourself a good equine babysitter, ride him every day, establish a routine, and before you know it you'll be wondering what you were ever worried about.
 
OP I don't think you are over reacting at all. If my new horse had bucked me off on the first day I would be absolutely gutted, as would most people. Yes the horse is in a new environment but I don't think feeling unsettled goes hand in hand with putting in a massive dirty buck and chucking you off. Launching himself into canter then gallop then chucking you off is not acceptable behaviour from a horse that was bought to be a safe, sane and steady.

It sounds to me like the old owners have something to hide, why else would they not want any contact? See how you get on with the person coming to ride him and see what they have to say. I really hope it works out for you but personally I wouldn persevere for too long if the bad behaviour continues, you didn't buy a project afterall.
 
hessy12 said:
I have owned and ridden horses since aged 4, am now 37, so cannot be described as novice. I have hunted, XC, SJ, dressaged and then hacked a great deal.
Yes, i was a little nervous when leading him, wouldn't you be? I was firm and insistent he did as he was told. He didn't do anything wrong but was on his toes. He responded well to instruction.
However, at the end of the day, he did throw a BIG buck yesterday, after having launched himself into canter and then galloped off. My seat is secure.
I am now confused by conflicting advice and wish i'd never posted, now i feel like it's my fault, when deep down, i know what he did was WRONG, a decent horses do NOT do that sort of thing. I rode him just the same as i did at old owner's house.
Which leads me to feel he was doped and bloods need testing. It's a complete mess.
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You did say though that you bought this horse after a break of 12 years. It is only natural that you would be anxious on the first hack. I'm afraid that while not saying that 'this is your fault', I do think that you were expecting too much of the poor horse. Welsh Cobs are not known for their placid natures, so DO need to be given time to become accustomed to new surroundings etc. All the CBs I've ever known have been placid and laid back for about 98% of the time and directly the opposite the rest of the time!
I suggest that you have your bloods tested for any drugs, then you will know for sure whether the sellers were at fault and can act accordingly. If you find that there is no trace of the horse having been doped then you can work on building up a relationship with the horse over time.
It is very interesting that the people who are saying 'give it time' in general are the experienced amateurs while those who say 'get on and ride straightaway' are either professionals, for whom this approach obviously works in most cases or very inexperienced.
 
hessy12 said:
I have owned and ridden horses since aged 4, am now 37, so cannot be described as novice. I have hunted, XC, SJ, dressaged and then hacked a great deal.
Yes, i was a little nervous when leading him, wouldn't you be? I was firm and insistent he did as he was told. He didn't do anything wrong but was on his toes. He responded well to instruction.
However, at the end of the day, he did throw a BIG buck yesterday, after having launched himself into canter and then galloped off. My seat is secure.
I am now confused by conflicting advice and wish i'd never posted, now i feel like it's my fault, when deep down, i know what he did was WRONG, a decent horses do NOT do that sort of thing. I rode him just the same as i did at old owner's house.
Which leads me to feel he was doped and bloods need testing. It's a complete mess.
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i didnt see this reply of yours:o

so you ARE experienced with a secure seat... see back to my first reply;)
 
It is very interesting that the people who are saying 'give it time' in general are the experienced amateurs while those who say 'get on and ride straightaway' are either professionals, for whom this approach obviously works in most cases or very inexperienced.
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With the exception of perhaps one poster, I completely agree with you.
 
OP- you need a receipt to prove ownership. A passport is not proof of ownership. So at the very least the old owners should send you a receipt anyway
 
Hessy, I really do feel for you. The advice you are getting is so conflicting, but one thing is for sure here - THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT !!!

My last horse was bought as a sound, quiet ex-trekker. I bought him because I have a back injury, and just wanted to plod round lanes. BUT he became a totally different horse when ridden alone - full rears, bucks,then jibbing.. sometimes one after the other. In company he was fine, but I ride alone a lot of the time. I was soooo distraught. But after a long time, I got it sorted, and he was the best horse ever, and I still miss him now (would never have sold him but we went to Oz ).

Anyways, for what's it's worth, this is what I suggest you do....firstly, put the horse on a calmer (Wendalls is supposed to be good), and a sugar and starch free feed IF he's being fed (a handful of hi-fi lite to blend in the herbs). Also put rescue remedy (6 drops) into this feed, and take some of the spray yourself (from Boots).

Next, I would just do ground work for the next week (or even two) and really get to know him. In the meantime, write a letter to the old owners requesting an explanation, and also contact the vet who did the vetting - after all, he passed this horse as fit for purpose. Let it be known officially NOW that there is a problem, and mention trading standards - no idea if they can be involved, but it may jolt a reaction. Keep copies of these letters, and in them state that you will give this a month (or whatever) to attempt to resolve the matter. Or else you want action.

Next, try riding in company, and gradually build up to what you want to do. Horses are very sensitive creatures, and you can give him a chance to come right (and in any case, the old owners are not going to help, so you may as well give it a go). BUT you must keep yourself safe. God only knows how my last horse didn't get me off or damage my back more. Luck !

I fall else fails, you have made it known by letter the situation, and I think you may well be able to persue a course of action if you decide to. Come back here to find out what the options are, but fire off those letters asap.

Sending you huge ((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))), and remember you did EVERYTHING you could - including that vetting !!! Get that calmer in now, and take it from there.

Shysmum xx
 
Hun i feel sorry for you, you are in a crappy situation having thought you had bought the right horse. Most likely after a long search and lots of time and money spent - it must be hugely disapointing to then get bucked off.

I previously have worked on a dealers yard/livery yard and loads of times my old boss brought back a horse that was apparently quiet been their done that etc, then i the guinea pig would get on and very quickly end up on the floor or near enough for one reason or another. However usually after a good few days out at grass just for them to get their head round everything, the horse would come in and i'd get on and everything would be fine :) Ok there was one or two that yes indeed never got better but i really mean one or two out of the hundreds that he seemed to buy. One horse in particular bucked me off twice within half an hour (he was an ex racer) I was so determined to not let him get the better of me that over the next six months i would say he became probably one of my most favourite horses i have ever rode and i wanted to buy myself - he always was a bit of a bucker but if you kept him reasonably worked he wouldnt do it and he was just generally fantastic and an all rounder.

Another thing i wanted to mention the best horse i have ever rode was in fact a Cleveland x called Tia, and i have rode a pure Cleveland named Bounce who was just fantastic for novices etc and he competed to quite a high level in Dressage, both were lovely laid back individuals..so i would really disreguard anything bad i heard about cbs personally, i treat every horse as an individual dont even think about their breed each horse has their different personalities and quirks.

I believe you are doing the right thing getting this instructor friend to hack out on him after a couple days chilling out time. I know when i moved my youngster to another yard last year he behaved totally uncharacteristically and double barrelled someone into a wall - not done it since- not so much as hinted at it and had never previously usually a very laid back chap and i trusted him completely, i was very shocked and upset by it.
It is upsetting and easy to lose faith in the horse but give him another chance at least before you do anything rash. I do agree with others when they say dont keep a horse that you are not happy on and wont ride..But it is very early days yet.

Wishing you the very best of luck hun, and please keep us informed as to how everything works out for you..:) xx
 
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What a horrible situation, I really feel for you and hope that whatever you ultimately decide to do with the horse everything works out for the best for both of you.
 
I haven't read all the replies in detail but seems like you are being given very conflicting suggestions.

What made you go for this lad in the first place, what were his best features?

It does sound like he is a bit wound up being in a new environment and most horses are like this, think about what they are like when go out with new horses for the first time, they all play silly bugga*s and have a good run around, do we suddenly go 'oh well he wasn't like that in the field at his old place'.

Give him time, of every new horse I have seen others and myself buy they have always behaved differently in the first few weeks, yes you have to lay ground rules but mostly as long as you are firm they settle down and become the horse you tried out and decided was the right one.

I also really don't think you can tarnish a whole breed because of certain experiences, they will all have different personalities regardless.

Just spend some time lunging him, grooming, setting boundaries from the ground and ride him when you're both ready, it sounds like it was high spirits, rather that than something that turns into a nasty git in the field or stable, good luck
 
hessy12 said:
on the phone, sellers said "we've got rid of him now". I think that comment says an awful lot.

I don't like that at all. That comment makes me think that he has probably bucked his rider off before.


An expert rider (who rides naughty horses for a living) is taking him out for me today or tomorrow,

Fantastic! A professional evalution of the horse will really help you. Would they be able to help you more if you decide to keep the horse, or help you sell him?


Is this just the luck of the draw, or have i bought a horse that was drugged?

It might be worth paying for the bloods to be tested just so that you know.
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One question for you... is he nervous of bikes? One of my horses is 'good' with them, she doesn't prance about as they pass her or anything but she doesn't like them and I can imagine that having one accompany us on a ride would wind her up. Just a thought.

The most important thing is that you don't get badly injured.

Hessy I really hope that this works out for you, whatever you decide.
 
Are you new to horses and what is your experience as a rider? If I was choosing my first horse that 'cross' would not be my first choice. However, that's generalising and your horse maybe a quiet example of both breeds.

I'm very surprised that having owned him for 3 years, and done so much with him during that period, they now do not want to know. What have you said or asked them? As has already been pointed out,

The only thing a horse, how ever quiet, naturally wants/needs to know is 'the lie of the land'. Moving home is quite different to a day trip, ride round and back to familiar surroundings. Some horses cope far better than others with temporary changes of scene, or stable, whereas others find not knowing their close to middle-distance surroundings very unsettling. So I disagree in part with the view that all horses should be able to cope with what is really a hugely unnatural and (were this a wild horse) unheard of scenario. However much we domesticate them, this need is deep in their psyche and in some it can surface (quite reasonably) at times like this. Did he have a strong pair bond at his previous home, perhaps? We are perfectly happy to yank them out of their regular routine, social groups and environment without so much as a by your leave and wonder why a completely relaxed plod turns into something of a nutcase when faced with a totally new environment. With no steadying equine company, a stranger on their back and any number of potentially life-threatening situations presenting themselves, I really don't think this behaviour is unacceptable. When will people stop expecting horses to have more than a rudimentary grasp of things as we see them?

Not having a dig at the OP, but come on. We have just taken on livery a horse who at her previous stable, literally just down the road, was practically dormant. It came as no surprise to me whatsoever, when this gentle mare turned into something of a firework on moving to our yard. In ten minutes, she lost her stablemates and fieldmates and nothing could be done to even half replicate the routine and hustle and bustle she was used to. She needed to take things in, introduce herself to the inmates here and accustom herself to her new home - which includes weighing up the landscape and her locality as throughly as her personality requires. It took three days, some tactful handling and management and thought for her perspective on things - and we know what we are doing!

What to do? Try and see things from his angle. Lead him around and let him get things straight in his head. Bond with him and get him some ridden company for excursions. Even competent, experienced owners can sometimes come up against unexpected insecurities but have the common sense and resources to handle them with the least amount of collateral damage. If you are novicey, you need some help from a reliable source.
 
Thanks again for the help. he has earlier today been ridden now by the 'expert' and didn't put a hoof wrong, even on the corn field. She has sent me to buy body protector (!) (never, ever needed to have one of those before) and i am to ride him round the block tonight with hubby and kids on bikes, and treat him firmly but kindly and imagine yesterday never happened. Oh, and a neck strap (again, never used this before, but heck, safety first eh).
Yes, i've over reacted and now need to be quiet and firm with him and build up slowly, but ultimately, i have got to get back on and ride him!
Thank you all again for taking time to answer. Good riding all.
 
hessy12 said:
Thanks again for the help. he has earlier today been ridden now by the 'expert' and didn't put a hoof wrong, even on the corn field. She has sent me to buy body protector (!) (never, ever needed to have one of those before) and i am to ride him round the block tonight with hubby and kids on bikes, and treat him firmly but kindly and imagine yesterday never happened. Oh, and a neck strap (again, never used this before, but heck, safety first eh).
Yes, i've over reacted and now need to be quiet and firm with him and build up slowly, but ultimately, i have got to get back on and ride him!
Thank you all again for taking time to answer. Good riding all.
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I ride with a neck strap. If it's good enough for Mr Fox Pitt.....

Good luck tonight, you'll be fine. 1 bike will probably be better than many. But either way enjoy.:)
 
So pleased you sound better !!! Take it nice and steady and try and relax. I just think you need time together. Any further probs tho, do get sommit in writing.

Best of British, shymum :D xx
 
Good luck for later .... sing to yourself, it makes you breath and keeps you relaxed!!!

Let us know how you get on :).
 
I'd definately not ride out a brand new horse on roads! Definately ride in an enclosed paddock / arena for at least a week first so you can gain confidence in each other, plus it gives him time to settle in a bit as any new horse will be finding the first few days extremely exciting.

Bit worrying that the original owners dont seem interested though...
 
Thats great news. Hope its given you confidence now. I'm sure the horse will work out fine. These things happen quite a lot! Take it slow, keep having help/lessons and build up. I bet there will be photos of you and your new horse doing well on here in no time..xx
 
MagicMelon said:
I'd definately not ride out a brand new horse on roads! Definately ride in an enclosed paddock / arena for at least a week first so you can gain confidence in each other, plus it gives him time to settle in a bit as any new horse will be finding the first few days extremely exciting.
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I don't see why not in company (equine). I rode my horse on the roads on the second day of riding him when I got him.
 
Originally Posted by MagicMelon
I'd definately not ride out a brand new horse on roads! Definately ride in an enclosed paddock / arena for at least a week first so you can gain confidence in each other, plus it gives him time to settle in a bit as any new horse will be finding the first few days extremely exciting.
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I'm in a similar situation as the OP with regards coming back to horses after having a long break.

My new horse arrived Friday, he was very unsettled Friday and Saturday. Sunday he seemed a lot quieter, I spent a lot of time grooming and chatting to him during these days.

Rode him out for the first time Monday, he was very forward going and looking at everything. Took him out again today for a bit longer, we mainly walked and had a couple of very short trots, he was the same today.

Unfortunately I only have a small paddock so have to go on the roads as I will need all the grass I have.

I think you just have to take each day at a time and look how he seems to be feeling before you do anything, take it slow and he should come right.

Good luck for later.
 
having read the entire thread it seems this might have been 'just one of those things' but I feel I ought to stick up for CB's!

They are incredibly intelligent animals and also quite sensitive and like time to think about things. They love reasurance and will eventually put all their trust in you but they cannot be expected to do that on day one.

I personally would give any horse at least a couple of days to settle before doing anything with it, ESPECIALY if it was showing CLASSIC signs of being unsetled. It loks like you have resolved the situation now but I would personally just lunge for a few days then get on and walk round the field and then after a few sessions working nicely in the field, go on a mini hack. Allow him to explore things that worry him and show him they are safe (ideally by touching them yourself) and maybe give him the odd treat to re-inforce that (CB's and welshes for that matter, love their bellies!!)

good luck wih him, and I agree with the BP and neckstrap
 
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