New horse lame update

[Fiona]

Update - basic X-rays show some balances issues (flatter pedal bone than normal) that we can work to improve and very thin soles. Plan is to look to work on this first before we go for a full blow investigation. Vet doesn't think barefoot is an option now due to the sole and risk of bruising etc but agreed if we can get some good foot growth that might change. Different options will be discussed with vet and farrier and we'll go from there.

Anyone any suggestions re management to help with this? Farriers formula or similar?

Definitely farriers formula and keratex hoof hardener.

Sounds almost exactly like my TB as a 5yo.

We shod her on a 4 week interval, quarter clips in front and shoe set back/longer shoe for heel support and she was perfectly fine after that.

In fact she had foot x-rays at 14 years old, and vet was very impressed with her feet.

Fiona

 

[Ceriann]

Definitely farriers formula and keratex hoof hardener.

Sounds almost exactly like my TB as a 5yo.

We shod her on a 4 week interval, quarter clips in front and shoe set back/longer shoe for heel support and she was perfectly fine after that.

In fact she had foot x-rays at 14 years old, and vet was very impressed with her feet.

Fiona

Thanks Fiona - that's good to know. Vet was surprised just how thin her soles are so we may well have bruising too. Did you adjust work initially or build up work on hard surfaces?

 

[ycbm]

Hi Ceriann, you're looking at a newly minted "expert" in thin soles Blitz has 4-5mm on the left fore and 2-3mm on the right fore (normal is approx. 10-15mm).

He is managed barefoot, with boots and EVA pads for turnout and hacking. The pads offer both support and stimulation over the entire solar surface.

Without stimulation the solar corium doesn't produce any more sole. So by applying shoes and lifting the sole away from the ground it can just perpetuate the thin soles. Also, during the normal preparation of the foot for shoeing, the farrier takes sole of the sole away, which isn't the best, if you are already working with thinned soles.

This.

I'd also suggest that you test her for Cushings, no matter what her age is. And if she is, or had been, overweight, for EMS as well.

 

[Fiona]

Thanks Fiona - that's good to know. Vet was surprised just how thin her soles are so we may well have bruising too. Did you adjust work initially or build up work on hard surfaces?

She had 4 months off, and when she was sound again I started getting her fit gradually.

Fiona

 

[Ceriann]

Hi Ceriann, you're looking at a newly minted "expert" in thin soles Blitz has 4-5mm on the left fore and 2-3mm on the right fore (normal is approx. 10-15mm).

He is managed barefoot, with boots and EVA pads for turnout and hacking. The pads offer both support and stimulation over the entire solar surface.

Without stimulation the solar corium doesn't produce any more sole. So by applying shoes and lifting the sole away from the ground it can just perpetuate the thin soles. Also, during the normal preparation of the foot for shoeing, the farrier takes sole of the sole away, which isn't the best, if you are already working with thinned soles.[/

Eva pads? I would prefer her to go barefoot and it's not completely discounted as haven't gone through all options. Have you just gone barefoot and if so did you give yours time out or did you ride immediately. I know walking on a smooth hard surface can help .

 

[Ceriann]

This.

I'd also suggest that you test her for Cushings, no matter what her age is. And if she is, or had been, overweight, for EMS as well.

She's not been overweight as far as I know - pics of her that I have she looks like she's generally been no more than a 3 condition score. I'm going to be bringing her in during the day which will be helpful on all counts and talk to vet about getting her tested.

 

[AnShanDan]

Your horse sounds like it has weak feet and the reason people use boots and pads (for riding normally, but sometimes for turnout as well) is to give the foot protection and better stimulation, if the foot is very weak.

Thin soles usually mean weak hoof walls, and the combination leads to low level inflammation in the hoof, this in turn slows the growth of the hoof, which is a vicious circle.

To break that circle, you can take the shoes off and use boots and pads (maybe only for a few months) til the foot is stronger. Protection reduces the inflammation, which allows the foot to grow more sole, and the pads also help stimulate the sole directly.

A really good farrier can also make a big difference, possibly with used of sole protection to help prevent any further bruising.

Good luck

 

[Andalucian]

Update - basic X-rays show some balances issues (flatter pedal bone than normal) that we can work to improve and very thin soles. Plan is to look to work on this first before we go for a full blow investigation. Vet doesn't think barefoot is an option now due to the sole and risk of bruising etc but agreed if we can get some good foot growth that might change. Different options will be discussed with vet and farrier and we'll go from there.

Anyone any suggestions re management to help with this? Farriers formula or similar?

X-rays show exactly what I saw in the photos. The only way to thicken soles is to use them, "pressure is the stimulus for growth".

So I totally disagree with your vet, barefoot is the only way forward at this point, but with advice of an experience barefoot practitioner who can advise you how to get him through the early stages when his feet willbe very delicate. It's not easy, but it is the only way to improve these feet for the long term, even if you revert to shoes once they're stronger again.

 

[Casey76]

Eva pads? I would prefer her to go barefoot and it's not completely discounted as haven't gone through all options. Have you just gone barefoot and if so did you give yours time out or did you ride immediately. I know walking on a smooth hard surface can help .

No, my horse has never had shoes in his life. I didn't know he had such thin soles until I had xrays done after a suspected laminitis (high pain scores and digital pulses were the only symptoms).

However I had recently changed from a farrier who always left him peripherally loaded, to a barefoot trimmer, so he is being transitioned as if he has just come out of shoes, as the effect has been the same.

I use mats similar to these cut to fit the inside of the hoof boots: link

 

[Ceriann]

No, my horse has never had shoes in his life. I didn't know he had such thin soles until I had xrays done after a suspected laminitis (high pain scores and digital pulses were the only symptoms).

However I had recently changed from a farrier who always left him peripherally loaded, to a barefoot trimmer, so he is being transitioned as if he has just come out of shoes, as the effect has been the same.

I use mats similar to these cut to fit the inside of the hoof boots: link

Thank you. Sorry to be thick but do you use the pads alone for t/o? Reason I ask, when I looked up Eva pads there are examples of people taping cut out Eva matting to horse soles and turning out. What boots do you use? Do you also use the pads in the boots?

My red lost one her front shoes this afternoon - given she lost half of it and I then had to get the other half off (that wasn't fun), she's now barefoot on near fore (sort of - she's in a poultice (bagged so she could go out).

Spoke with farrier and vet has suggested eggbars - farrier didn't necessarily agree with that but hadn't seen the X-rays. I'm going to go for barefoot I think - given ages sort of forced my hand!

 

[ester]

pads alone taped on won't last very long but do work as an emergency measure particularly with laminitis.
I and others have used cavallos for turnout as they fit a pad in too (not all boots work with pads) TBH I think its the best use for cavallos I wouldn't want to do much more than walk about in them as they are quite clumpy, but are quite relaxed on fit. There are other options that would work too.

I think with think soles if you are going to do it at this time of year you would be advised to boot her for turnout, you will need to watch for rubs etc too though but it seems doable for lots of people. (have a silly sensitive ginger, cavallos did rub him, easyboot gloves dont so we stuck with them but not good for padding and shoving extra stuff in!)

 

[Ceriann]

pads alone taped on won't last very long but do work as an emergency measure particularly with laminitis.
I and others have used cavallos for turnout as they fit a pad in too (not all boots work with pads) TBH I think its the best use for cavallos I wouldn't want to do much more than walk about in them as they are quite clumpy, but are quite relaxed on fit. There are other options that would work too.

I think with think soles if you are going to do it at this time of year you would be advised to boot her for turnout, you will need to watch for rubs etc too though but it seems doable for lots of people. (have a silly sensitive ginger, cavallos did rub him, easyboot gloves dont so we stuck with them but not good for padding and shoving extra stuff in!)

Thanks Ester. I've spent a bit of time looking on hoof boutique - cavallos look an option with Pastern wraps and pads. The easy boot transition is another (well priced as run off stock) and just looked at the glove (which also looks good). She is sensitive skinned so would need to be careful. If I measure and order quickly I can trial the boot on the currently unshod foot. If she copes then she can cope bare foot

so boots for t/o and hacking but bare for school work and short walks on good surfaces to start to build up some tolerance? Given I haven't ridden her really since lameness issues kicked off, taking shoes off might actually allow me to work her (in the school at least). I assume it's gradual intro to work with no shoes?

 

[SusieT]

I'd be very careful about going barefoot here - you will hear everyone on here swear their horse went barefoot and it was all great or it was just 'sensitive' on stones - they rarely mention when they put shoes back on or the horse can only do ten minutes on tarmac (not great for actually enjoying the summer..) you will chase your tail not sure if your horse is sore because the shoes are off or because its actually lame - I woudl see if you can establish soundness in shoes which is what the horse is used to before changing the management dramatically.
What people say on forums and what I see in yards is vastly different! You need to be realistic about what you are going to have when you take the shoes off.

 

[claret09]

Sounds like Susie T has some excellent advice. don't rush to take shoes off, get the soundness right before changing anything. my boy is 17.2 and hasn't had back shoes on for at least eleven years without problems - he rarely goes on the road but he is totally sound and you would not know he didn't have backs on

 

[Ceriann]

Thank you - nothing decided yet. Farrier waiting to see x-rays and whilst vet has suggested egg bars he isn't keen. Given the thin soles and the lameness swapping I'm now fairly convinced she's been suffering with bruising. Two of my fields have a hardcore track through them and she can have some spectacular field fun. Her shoes when she came to me weren't great but she was 100% sound. She'll be taken off those fields and I've got a few days now to have a real think as I'm outliving the foot where the shoe has come off.

She does need to be able to work - not least for her. She's very lively in herself and she's looking less fit every day!

 

[Casey76]

I use the EVA pads inside Cavallo boots: you can see here that they conform to the whole foot:

I also cover the whole of the bottom of the foot and the heel bulbs with diatomaceous earth, which acts as a drying agent (soaks up sweat so no thrush) and reduces friction to prevent rubs.

 

[Orangehorse]

The thing about barefoot feet is that they take a long time to alter the internal structures and for the sole to become deep.
A mustang living wild which has never been shod will have a massively thick sole.

For going from a shod horse to barefoot takes a lot of dedication, and the horse will be wincing and could be footy for some time (like you going to the beach in bare feet and going over the rocks) - it shouldn't be lame and in pain at any time during the transition -so the main thing is work and movement. The firm pads are very, very good. They support the foot in the correct way, but they are a cushion, like physiotherapy really.

Ironically some of the most successful barefoot horses are endurance horses, as they are doing the miles over varying terrain. (I know one that has never been shod just completed 80km.)

For a solution for foot lameness, it can and does work, but it takes dedication, time, tenacity and the correct management such as plenty of exercise and suitable terrain. Sometimes one of these vital elements is missing just because.

My horse was barefoot successfully, but because of personal circumstances I was unable to give him sufficient, consistant work to keep his feet in good condition so he could go and and do longer rides/competitions whe required, so I had him re-shod.