New horse making me looking silly and making me doubt myself.

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EventfulEventer

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Let me start this off by saying I know I am capable but I have gremlins ok, we all have them but mine are being very loud at the moment, I have been in the saddle for 29 years and I am 32 years old so definitely not a green on green situation 😆

I have just bought the most gorgeous KWPN Gelding with spectacular breeding, he is by Cornet Elite (Cornet Obolensky) out of a Riant mare, he is 5, 16.3 and knows EXACTLY how big he is but I'm 6ft tall so unfortunately I need these larger horses and they tend to come with larger opinions! He has been home with me for about 6 weeks now and we have been doing a lot of groundwork as he is a scared, anxious boy and more often than not, just tanks around the round pen on the lunge. He has gone into a herd turnout situation with other geldings since coming home and now he is a little terror to catch and bring in!! He will do laps and laps of this massive field and once he is caught, he will rear, lock his neck and run off again. All these antics are in full view of the yard and whilst it isn't upsetting anyone else's horses, it is very embarrassing as I am not the kind of person who likes drawing attention to herself...however this horse is determined to keep me in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons!

The straw that broke the camels back came on Sunday, after weeks of groundwork I felt confident to get on. As I put my foot in the stirrup, my bloody saddle slipped, he bolted and went through the arena fencing, luckily walking away with minor cuts and feeling a bit sore but horse and saddle are otherwise, intact. My fault for not triple checking the girth but I just sat and cried because after weeks of dealing with this giant, anxious baby who just acts up every chance he gets, I broke down. I guess I am just hoping I am not alone here and someone out there is dealing with something similar or has dealt with similar with young warmbloods..this journey can feel so lonely, especially when you are on a big yard and feel like all eyes are on you for the wrong reasons...

COOKIE 🍪🍪
 
No practical help sorry but I can sympathise as I went through a similar teething phase with my new horse when he arrived 3 years ago now. He was super sharp and super anxious and everything was constantly a bit of a drama that left me questioning my sanity! A couple of weeks after he arrived he threw himself on the floor in the box and got trapped under the partition so I also had an absolutely mortifying and also very traumatising 'incident' to deal with that left me feeling very defeated. Oh he also spooked while I was leading him to the arena, reared up and put his foot through the reins, that was fun. I quite frequently couldn't catch him and when I got close he would spin and double barrel me. The first hack we went on with others from the yard he behaved like a fire breathing dragon the whole way round, then spooked and bolted past the other 2 horses to the front and set everyone else off, we never got asked to go out again 🤣

I also felt like a bit of a fool and like all eyes were on me and my slightly unhinged horse! Plus lots of unsolicited advice from well-meaning people with fairly sane and balanced horses of "why don't you just....". A lot of my friends really just 'didn't get it' no matter how good their intentions and yes it's very lonely and very isolating, especially when you see others off having a lovely time, and people are very quick to start excluding you and forgetting about you because it's a bit of an ordeal to do anything with you and your tricky horse. So I can totally empathise with how you are feeling right now, it's rubbish!

Anyhow, what kept me sane was A) mostly keeping myself to myself, I learned quickly to not even discuss my horses antics in conversation as people thought I was asking for advice which often wasn't very useful when it was given B) I found one ally on the yard who had an equally sharp horse who genuinely understood what I was going through, she was the only person I ever rode with or vented to C) I got a really good trainer who was au fait with quirky horses that I worked with every week, I really looked forward to my sessions and it was good to have the support and eyes of someone who was unphased by horses behaviour and just said "ok that didn't work, lets try..."

I will say after about 6 months I started to get to grips with him and it was all a lot less traumatic 😅 and after about a year the drama had pretty much died off and we reached a good mutual understanding. He still tests me quite a lot but on the whole he can manage to behave like a 'normal' horse now... most of the time!
 
This behavior sounds abnormal, even for a big warmblood with sharp breeding, though you are mixing Cornet Oblensky with Jazz….. That’s about as bad as it gets!! What was his management before he came to you? How long had he been in that management? How was he when you tried him?
Regardless of these answers, you need to find out what is triggering such a high level of anxiety and change his management asap
 
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Was he imported? I knew one we don't think had ever had proper turnout (at least not in a field with others) who got so ridiculous with the herd he had to be separated. His owner acquired an emotional support Shetland who became his buddy and calmed life down.
 
Before he came to me he was barely ever turned out, basically lived in a stable and pulled out to be worked, when I went I could tell he was anxious as he flinched when I took his rug off and just stood stock still when they tacked him up, almost like he was scared to move. He flinches with any sudden movements so my trainer and I think someone has previously beaten him in response to his sharpness rather than worked him through it. I am changing his management in a way that gives him the life a horse should have with friends and the tools to regulate himself but we are currently in the TRENCHES. He did trot up to me in the field last night and let me catch him without any of the antics for the first time in a couple of weeks so I can see progress and he truly is the sweetest person but I guess I am just having a woe is me moment! I have cut lots of sugar out of his diet and he is on one feed a day to try and help with any sugar induced spice.
 
Not imported, bred in this country but basically no turnout! I am trying to give him the best life possible with big green fields and friends and he is throwing it back in my face 😆
SEL said:
Was he imported? I knew one we don't think had ever had proper turnout (at least not in a field with others) who got so ridiculous with the herd he had to be separated. His owner acquired an emotional support Shetland who became his buddy and calmed life down.
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Oh I really feel for you.

While your changing things I'd suggest treating him like he has ulcers and making sure his feeds etc are tummy friendly. I'd probably pop him on a supplement like coligone or similar.

Do you think your are giving him as much work as he was getting at his last home? Is it worth getting a freelancer in to ride him a couple of times a week? Hard work that really makes him think so his mind is stimulated.

Could you walk him out in and to hand graze a little to try and build a bit of trust between the both of you?

Just throwing a few ideas out there in case it's helpful.
 
I have 3 wb, 2 x oldenburg and 1 KWPN. I bought them at 3, 2, 4 yo. They are all different characters and one is physically quite different, much chunkier than the modern type so it's hard to make a general statement about what they're like. The only generalisation I would say is that they have been more difficult and needed to go slower in their training than other horses I've had in the past and have found changes to their routine more difficult to adapt to. I have a regular dressage trainer who really gets them and has been a great help, she's focuses a lot on way of going and quality of paces, an eventing trainer who had been great in the past was (for me anyway!) doing things too quickly. I would say 6 weeks is early days.

I also had a behavioural specialist out to one who lost his friend / travelling companion when that horse was pts and he fell apart again. It's something I would recommend as well as a traditional trainer.

EventfulEventer said:
Before he came to me he was barely ever turned out, basically lived in a stable
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Interesting, my most difficult one came from Germany where he spent all winter in a stable.

My most recent purchase had pyloric ulcers, so as mentioned above, something to consider even if you don't see the classic signs.
 
I think if you are cofident there are no physical issues (pain), and have a good instructor working with you, you will just habe to dial expectations right back yo the bare minimum - he is polite to catch, brush maybe do a bit of ground work, and turn out. While he adjusts to a new home and way of life.
It can take 3 months for some to settle, and thats with no major change in lifestyle.

And yes hard, but try to ignore/not worry about what others think.
 
If your changing his management, even tho it's for the better, 6 weeks isn't that long for a young horse to settle into a new place, adding in management changes. I'm sure you will end up with the horse you wanted but it all takes time. My ID mare took at least a year to settle and my set up was exactly the same as her previous home.
 
EventfulEventer said:
Before he came to me he was barely ever turned out, basically lived in a stable and pulled out to be worked, when I went I could tell he was anxious as he flinched when I took his rug off and just stood stock still when they tacked him up, almost like he was scared to move. He flinches with any sudden movements so my trainer and I think someone has previously beaten him in response to his sharpness rather than worked him through it. I am changing his management in a way that gives him the life a horse should have with friends and the tools to regulate himself but we are currently in the TRENCHES. He did trot up to me in the field last night and let me catch him without any of the antics for the first time in a couple of weeks so I can see progress and he truly is the sweetest person but I guess I am just having a woe is me moment! I have cut lots of sugar out of his diet and he is on one feed a day to try and help with any sugar induced spice.
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Oh this is so similar to my boy. Though I don't think he was mistreated where I got him from (they only had him a short time), I think his life before that was quite hard. He's quite an opinionated thing and I think he'd been very much treated with a firm hand to keep him in line. He would also flinch whenever you went to do anything with him, even now when I go to brush him he'll flinch away from the brush but relax as soon as it makes contact with him and he realises that's all I'm doing. I think it's a really difficult time for them, as they don't have the trust in you yet, but they're also learning about this whole new way of doing things. I think they almost become a bit institutionalised to what they're used to and once they realise they can express themselves it takes time for them to learn how to regulate that without swinging from one extreme to the other. Mine was inwardly so anxious but almost robotic about things, then would swing violently the other way to being completely irrational when he 'bubbled over'. Once he started to realise he was allowed to express his feelings about things more subtly and I would listen to him, the outbursts reduced and eventually fizzled away. He's now generally a pretty relaxed lad and a lovely person to have around, it does get better but yes you are very much in the thick of it right now and it's hard!
 
EventfulEventer said:
Before he came to me he was barely ever turned out, basically lived in a stable and pulled out to be worked, when I went I could tell he was anxious as he flinched when I took his rug off and just stood stock still when they tacked him up, almost like he was scared to move. He flinches with any sudden movements so my trainer and I think someone has previously beaten him in response to his sharpness rather than worked him through it. I am changing his management in a way that gives him the life a horse should have with friends and the tools to regulate himself but we are currently in the TRENCHES. He did trot up to me in the field last night and let me catch him without any of the antics for the first time in a couple of weeks so I can see progress and he truly is the sweetest person but I guess I am just having a woe is me moment! I have cut lots of sugar out of his diet and he is on one feed a day to try and help with any sugar induced spice.
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Next thing I would do then is get him on a proper course of ulcer medication. Scope first if needed. There were red flags when you viewed him but it sounds like he has tipped over the edge now
He may well have not had rough handling, some just are very sensitive- I have a homebred filly who is a bit the same way, and if you push it a little bit she will get overloaded and bronc. I can guarantee she has never had so much as a finger lifted at her, it is just her nature!
He absolutely needs to be out in a herd, but perhaps not yet…. If his management has been that poor and he hasn’t settled into it then I would probably do it more incrementally than that
 
KikiDee said:
Oh this is so similar to my boy. Though I don't think he was mistreated where I got him from (they only had him a short time), I think his life before that was quite hard. He's quite an opinionated thing and I think he'd been very much treated with a firm hand to keep him in line. He would also flinch whenever you went to do anything with him, even now when I go to brush him he'll flinch away from the brush but relax as soon as it makes contact with him and he realises that's all I'm doing. I think it's a really difficult time for them, as they don't have the trust in you yet, but they're also learning about this whole new way of doing things. I think they almost become a bit institutionalised to what they're used to and once they realise they can express themselves it takes time for them to learn how to regulate that without swinging from one extreme to the other. Mine was inwardly so anxious but almost robotic about things, then would swing violently the other way to being completely irrational when he 'bubbled over'. Once he started to realise he was allowed to express his feelings about things more subtly and I would listen to him, the outbursts reduced and eventually fizzled away. He's now generally a pretty relaxed lad and a lovely person to have around, it does get better but yes you are very much in the thick of it right now and it's hard!
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Your responses have made me feel much better about my little psychopath 😆 He is such a lovely person and genuinely a joy to be around but very anxious and his outbursts are very dramatic! He did let me catch him last night without the usual lunacy but his behaviour isn't making me want to attempt to get back on haha.
I have done so much googling over the last couple of days, I have enquired with a local behaviourist and confidence coach who is going to come and give us some lessons on the ground and eventually in the saddle and I think I just needed enough people to say "its ok, we've all been there" for my brain to actually consider the fact there are other horses out there like him and I just need to give him time, If I am completely honest, his sale ad was written on Sunday night but people have talked me round :)
 
5 yo can be little sh*ts and he's sharp with that breeding. Mule gives some good advice re ulcers.
6 weeks is nothing. Sounds as if you had a breakthrough last night.

Liken the other liveries to being in a warm up when you feel it's going to pot. Nobody is actually looking at you or judging you; if anything they are sympathising.

My horse bolts in a blind panic if his saddle slips and will go through whatever is his way.
Maybe have instructor on ground next time you get on and if you just get led around for 5 minutes so what. Just build the trust.
 
TheMule said:
Next thing I would do then is get him on a proper course of ulcer medication. Scope first if needed. There were red flags when you viewed him but it sounds like he has tipped over the edge now
He may well have not had rough handling, some just are very sensitive- I have a homebred filly who is a bit the same way, and if you push it a little bit she will get overloaded and bronc. I can guarantee she has never had so much as a finger lifted at her, it is just her nature!
He absolutely needs to be out in a herd, but perhaps not yet…. If his management has been that poor and he hasn’t settled into it then I would probably do it more incrementally than that
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Yep! Scopes and X-rays are next on my list. He has had two rounds with a Chiro and Physio is booked next week after his recent antics with the arena fencing. He is definitely sensitive but my concern is that sensitivity is going to lead to ulcers. I have been feeding him a gut supplement and ulcer preventing feed during his transition period but scope is definitely next on my list! Thank god for insurance haha.
nutjob said:
I have 3 wb, 2 x oldenburg and 1 KWPN. I bought them at 3, 2, 4 yo. They are all different characters and one is physically quite different, much chunkier than the modern type so it's hard to make a general statement about what they're like. The only generalisation I would say is that they have been more difficult and needed to go slower in their training than other horses I've had in the past and have found changes to their routine more difficult to adapt to. I have a regular dressage trainer who really gets them and has been a great help, she's focuses a lot on way of going and quality of paces, an eventing trainer who had been great in the past was (for me anyway!) doing things too quickly. I would say 6 weeks is early days.

I also had a behavioural specialist out to one who lost his friend / travelling companion when that horse was pts and he fell apart again. It's something I would recommend as well as a traditional trainer.



Interesting, my most difficult one came from Germany where he spent all winter in a stable.

My most recent purchase had pyloric ulcers, so as mentioned above, something to consider even if you don't see the classic signs.
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That's interesting! I was worried a herd turnout had blown his brains slightly due to going from basically no turnout, to what should be a horses dream situation! I have been doing lots of googling over the last few days and booked a behavioural trainer for next week to come out and help him and me as I believe we both need to be confident for this to work, or at least, I need to be more confident than him! It will never work if we are both scared so I am excited to see what happens after some sessions with her
 
Nicnac said:
5 yo can be little sh*ts and he's sharp with that breeding. Mule gives some good advice re ulcers.
6 weeks is nothing. Sounds as if you had a breakthrough last night.

Liken the other liveries to being in a warm up when you feel it's going to pot. Nobody is actually looking at you or judging you; if anything they are sympathising.

My horse bolts in a blind panic if his saddle slips and will go through whatever is his way.
Maybe have instructor on ground next time you get on and if you just get led around for 5 minutes so what. Just build the trust.
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I have basically bought myself a fire cracker and I only have myself to blame but if I can learn to use that energy for good, we will be unstoppable...we are both just anxious annies at the moment and it isn't helping anyone! 😅 I am definitely having x-rays and a scope done before starting any work and an instructor will be a staple! I don't think I will be doing much ridden work without an instructor on the ground for a good while!
 
The best thing you can do when buying a young sharp sporty type is to replicate the system the horse has come out of. Then make tiny adjustments over time to get them into your program. Often these types just need clear boundaries and a bit of micromanagement or they create their own boogie men.

Best invest in good pro help upfront.

If no improvement then back to the physical drawing board.

Good luck - my days of these are over.
My first bred was similar - he was only done by pros for the first year. If it helps he has turned into a wonderful horse, if still a little quirky!
 
EventfulEventer said:
Your responses have made me feel much better about my little psychopath 😆 He is such a lovely person and genuinely a joy to be around but very anxious and his outbursts are very dramatic! He did let me catch him last night without the usual lunacy but his behaviour isn't making me want to attempt to get back on haha.
I have done so much googling over the last couple of days, I have enquired with a local behaviourist and confidence coach who is going to come and give us some lessons on the ground and eventually in the saddle and I think I just needed enough people to say "its ok, we've all been there" for my brain to actually consider the fact there are other horses out there like him and I just need to give him time, If I am completely honest, his sale ad was written on Sunday night but people have talked me round :)
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Oh god during the first 6 months after my boy arrived I spent HOURS honestly googling and scrolling through threads on here on "new horse problems" "how long to click with new horse" and related topics just looking for success stories and reassurance to cling onto 🤣 it's so hard when you're in the thick of it to see the light at the end of the tunnel but I told myself I'd give it 6 months and if we hadn't really made steps forward then I would re-evaluate - it gave me a goal to work towards and almost made me feel better as on the bad days I'd say to myself "well I only have to stick this out for 6 months then I can say I gave it my best shot" :oops: Then after 6 months I realised I was actually rather fond of him so I said well let's give it a full year to see where we are at..... and well, here we are.

It's never really smooth sailing and there's always days when I question my sanity (I actually have a whole thread on here where I debated selling him quite recently after a really testing start to spring with him, just so I don't sound like a total hypocrite!), but slowly & surely the good hopefully starts to outweigh the bad.

I'd give yourself at least 6 months grace to get to know each other before you start despairing too much.
 
My warmblood was an arse when I bought him age 5. Bronked when I got on. Tried to deck me during lessons. Took off in hand. Broke numerous bridles. I luckily had a very good trainer and we really really worked on ground work. He was scared in his new environment. And also taking the piss. I used to do groundwork for 20 mins before I even attempted to get on. He ended up being a lovely horse. He’s 18 this year.
 
No practical help, but I don’t think you are being silly, but actually respect you for seeing there is either a settling in issue, pain or management problem.

Anyone who thinks he is making you look silly (and I’m pretty sure they don’t) is just showing how rubbish they are.

It’s surely going to take a lot of time, patience, help and education to work it out - but when it does go right, it will be even sweeter.
 
So many of them are complete pricks at 5. My lad is a saint now he is eight, I got him at three and he was a little baby angel child for the first couple of years, but I had to ship him off for reschooling at five because he was being an utter arsehole. I will never have something younger than six again 😅 not bloody worth it.

Lean on whatever support you have available to you. You are doing all the right things. Nothing will make you question your abilities like a five year old!
 
As others have said , new young horse + spring + bloodlines is a lot to deal with. I'd say you're on the right track, tacking it really slow will pay dividends down the line. No one should be judging you ad anyone with experience will know exactly what a challenge you've got.
Good luck, it sounds like you've got the knowledge to make this work, just hang onto that confidence. Slow and steady wins the race.
 
I am no expert with warm bloods.There is a dealer near me who is though.She wrote an article in a horse magazine a few years ago.She imports a lot.She says in short that many are not quite talented enough for a professional but too quirky for even a reasonably confident competent amateur. They are used to very strict routines and life in the average livery yard is difficult for them for that reason.Most amateurs want to do say a bit of hacking on a Monday,schooling on a Tuesday, day off on Wednesday but all of this may change due to family and work demands.
In short think carefully about what you want out of all of this.Do you want to spend pounds on vets,physios,behaviourist etc in the hope that you might be able to have the occasional ride?You can get nice big Irish horses used to British/Irish ways that might give you a lot more pleasure.It is your money and your choice of course and that is just my opinion.
 
At the end of a day any horse has more power than us, if he wants to go your not likely to stop him.
I'm 5foot and I've always had big horses, normally youngsters, some with issues
The better bred horses generally need a bording school type of routine especially at first.
And. Alit of them. Don't know kindness and human interaction such as a fuss and a pat.
My biggest bit of advice would to just spend time with him, hanging over the stable door, sat in the stable, let him get used to you.
Perhaps a smaller turnout to start.

It's also Worthing thinking he may not be used to the amount of grass and as it's really growing atm that could also be playing a part. Combined with chilly nights etc his brain is probably a bit cooked.

If you have worries about leading him etc use a bit on a slip to give yourself some more control.

Can't help with the saddle... Maybe just go bare back for a moment 😂

You don't sound like you a behaviourist or lessons you just need to see him like a spoilt brat that's suddenly got new rules doesn't understand them and is trying his luck in all ways.
 
EventfulEventer said:
I have cut lots of sugar out of his diet and he is on one feed a day to try and help with any sugar induced spice.
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jhoward said:
It's also Worthing thinking he may not be used to the amount of grass and as it's really growing atm that could also be playing a part. Combined with chilly nights etc his brain is probably a bit cooked.
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from the behaviour of one of mine this morning I don't think anyone should underestimate the effect of grass ATM. Mine was beyond grass mad on just a very small amount of grass. Looking at his eyes he was on a different planet. :eek:
 
Just sounds like a hot young horse who's world was very small and very controlled up until you brought him home and now he is suddenly in a new place and has friends and space and grass and his poor brain has just exploded for lack of knowing what to do with it all.

Slow, steady and consistent work and routine with him and I'm sure you'll get there. Probably wouldn't do much/anything riding-wise with him for a while. Just stick to activities where you can really control the environment, and focus on training his frame of mind rather than his body for now.
 
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