New Horse Nightmare

[mrgoop]

Ok so new boy arrived last sunday so had a couple of days off to get to know him. Went riding both days with another pony for company and confidence. He's not done a lot on the roads so expected a couple of hiccups, which we got...He decided that if he didn't like something he would run backwards. Quite scary but i put it down to neves and new surroundings. Went out today and had bigger and better tantrums, ending with a "fantastic vertical rear", don't know how i stayed on but thank god i did!!! Bought this horse as a mother/daughter share, daughters now decided she would rather not bother, and i kinda feel a little wary of his new found capabilities...previous owner said he's never done anything like that before, so is it me?? Have asked her to take him back, am now waiting for decision. What do you lot think and where do i stand?? The advert said "suit any family member. I'm not bitching just want some advice and theories!! PLEASE HELP

 

[Forget_Me_Not]

Its hard to say horses really do takes weeks and months to settle and show there true selfs... He could be a very rewarding horse but then could never be suitable and ruin it for him and your self and daughter...

 

[no_no_nanette]

If you made it clear to seller that you wanted him for a mother/daughter share then this sounds like he is no way fit for purpose ... But you never know when someone says "He's never done this before" - possible but unlikely! Personally, if he has already shown you that he will rear if lacking confidence then I would absolutely send him back. Rearing is always dangerous, and if he's doing this on the road, it could be lethal. You could be putting not only yourself but also your daughter at risk. Sounds like he's young?/green? and probably needs loads of time and input from someone very experienced (and brave!) to get him through it, But I wouldn't take on the job, if I were you!

 

[jayvee]

Hmm, I'd be wary. Can understand the settling in etc, but that behaviour is exreme from the advert you read!

 

[Forget_Me_Not]

Just thought id add i would and could never sell a horse as any thing other then unperdictable every horse can have a funny five mins, and do some thing hes never done before. Horses are living herd animals and will change from the ad descipion.

 

[Happytohack]

It is true that some horses can take many months to settle, however he has now shown that he is capable of a spectacular rear. TBH I would think it very unlikely that he has not done this before - it sounds like he has learnt that this is a good way of avoiding going forward. If you bought him from a dealer, you should be able to return him. However, if you bought him from a private seller, things might be a little more difficult. But rearing is a vice and all vices should be declared when selling a horse. Also, you obviously have kept a copy of the advert, and no way does a horse that rears suit any member of the family. If the seller refuses to take him back, you might have a battle on your hands. But no way would I keep him.

 

[weasel27]

Oh no, how disappointing.

Sounds unlikely that he's never done it before -most horses don't suddenly stand on their back legs for little reason unless it is something they have 'learned'. Send him back - and if the owners say no, mention mesrepresentation in ad etc. Otherwise you will be stuck with a horse you're wary of already - no fun and hell to sell on with a clear conscience.

Good luck

 

[LauraBR]

I'm really in two minds re this as I have been on both sides.

I sold a totally bombproof schoolmaster who then apparently 'turned psycho' and I have bought a 'sane' horse who turned out to be psycho and put me in hospital twice in the first month I had him.

Did you try this horse out on the road before you bought him?
How old is the horse and what was he doing before you bought him?

 

[parsley]

Its always difficult to know what horses will do while they settle into a new life. I had a very distressing phone call from our pony's new owner that he was attacking other horses. I can honestly say that he has never shown any sign of this behaviour - but like you I am sure she didn't believe me. Have you managed to talk to the owner properly about how he was managed and any ideas they have about managing him?

It must be a very difficult time for you.

 

[pottamus]

It is hard because some horses do not cope well with the change of home etc. When I tried my Welshie out he was totally laid back, popped him round the school, trot and canter and took him for a hack and he just ambled along happily. He was a real sweety but with character.
Got him home and in the first 6 hours he turned in a complete wild anaimal, forgot all his manners, was a pig to handle, carted me everywhere when being lead and was a spooky s*d to ride who turned around in the road, planted and napped. He took months to settle fully as he could not cope with the change. BUT I have to say that in your situation rearing is serious and I would suggest your horse has done this before. In all the difficult behaviour I experienced with mine he never once reared...bucked yes...he had learn't that, but never a rear.
See what the owners say first and perhaps look at getting some legal advice if they won't take him back...you can usually get an hour free with a solicitor. Good luck.

 

[Judie]

Could you just give us a few more details please, re: his age, breed, what has he been doing with his previous owner, were they trade or private etc?

Obviously if you wanted to return him and he came from a 'dealer' then you have the relevant legisilation behind you in that he wasn't fit for the purpose of the purchase, and if he is a dealer then trading standards will help you with the necessary jargon should it get to that stage. You may find they don't give you your money back but find you something more suitable.

If it's a private purchase it does make it slightly harder but not impossible.

I wouldn't want to comment to be honest re sending him back, keeping him without further info on him and maybe on your capabilities (don't mean to be at all rude in that).

 

[GTs]

It is tough as horses change with situation and riders - so it could well not be who he really is. I personally would push to send him back, if not get an experienced rider to work with him, until he has settled into his new surroundings and see what you have after that.

I personally do not like that sound of that - horses should never be so opinionated IMHO - however it could all work out well!

 

[mrgoop]

He is not a baby/green, he is 14. IDxTB, used for dressage, showjumping, XC etc. Has hacked out but not loads, but it's not the traffic that is the problem as i expected it would be... it's the very upsetting behaviour. I don't doubt my capabilites as a rider, but i don't feel that this is the horse to go forward with or to put my daughter on. oh, and it was a private sale!! Thankyou all for your comments..all input gratefully recieved

 

[Stella]

Its true that they can take time to settle, but a full up rear usually means they have gone up before as it takes confidence and very few horses would go all the way up until they had had a couple of 'practices'. So myself I'd be doubting the 'he's never done anything like it before' stuff! Also even if he was worried and just adjusting, a horse that is any member of the family's ride should be more low key in its adjusting. It sounds to me like the seller has taken a few liberties with her description. If you have a copy of the ad, you could threaten to bring a case under the 'Sale of Goods act' and there is no reason you couldn't go ahead and do so, if she didn't take him back.

 

[Judie]

[ QUOTE ]
but i don't feel that this is the horse to go forward with or to put my daughter on.

[/ QUOTE ]

There-in lies the answer to your own question.

Your daughters safety, and yours, is paramount. Owning a horse you are unhappy with is a very expensive way of being miserable!

Talk to the previous owners, explain the situation and hope they have the good grace to have him back.

 

[spooks]

missugoopy, there is a piece very similar to yours in H&H this week. page 10 ,ask H&H article. somebody asking what they can do re a 14.2hh they bought which is totally unsuitable.. will give you an idea of what you can do, part of the advice given was to.....
write a detailed letter setting out your dissatisfaction and giving the vendors one last opportunity to accept the return of the animal, pending which the buyer will consider issuing court proceedings alleging beach of contract and misrepresentation.
it also said if the figure sought is less than £5000 it can be dealt with in the small claims court. dont know if any of that helps

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
Talk to the previous owners, explain the situation and hope they have the good grace to have him back.

[/ QUOTE ]

And explain that you plan on selling him for slaughter as he is unsafe - that will get their attention.

 

[henryhorn]

It's often absolutely normal for a new horse in new surroundings to play up I'm afraid, he will be worried and unsure as to what's expected of him.
Horses in this situation take almost all their confidence from the rider, so perhaps asking your instructor to try him before you ride him again is a good idea.
If this isn't possible, take precautions, such as wearing a body protector and lunging him for a long time first. By this I mean at least half an hour including trot and canter, put him away then get him out and lunge again for 15 mins before getting on. Try and go with a steady horse and TROT don't walk. give him a brisk if possible steep uphill ride and try and relax yourself. Whistle, sing, talk, anything to make him feel you couldn't care less. Any nonsense first sit like a sack of spuds the minute he tenses (he should then relax himself) and if not aim to trot him past anything problematic, just get past at any speed just don't allow him to stop and mess about.
If you haven't got access to a lunging area try leading him alongside another horse tacked up a few times to see if he reacts to anything without a rider. if he does persuade the owner to take him back, he won't be suitable for the purpose intended. if he is sensible look to your own nerves perhaps, and get an experienced trainer to hack him out for you and change over when you feel happy.
I genuinely feel most horses play up in a new home, they sort of test you out, so I would try again but wear the b**** out first!

 

[mrgoop]

Henryhorn...Todays final episode happened after over 2 hours hacking, with quite a bit of hill work. One tantrum was because we asked for trot!! I have been relaxed when riding and have done the whistle/sing approach. One friend of mine once said "i can't believe you can just laugh when a horse does s**t like that" only there was nothing funny about todays episode. My (about to be) instructor witnessed the shabang and couldn't believe it. How can i ask someone to just get on him and take him out knowing what may happen!?!? I was just glad he didn't go over with me and that we got home in one piece. If he was reacting to something i would understand but it was totally out of the blue!! I am not a quitter or a wimp, but my confidence and safety are at risk here. Thanks for your comments

 

[Agent XXX999]

Dont see what breed or age has got to do with it... as you could get the same reaction from a hairy cob than a 20 year old tb...did you not ride him in ythe school to get used to him in a confined space with a softer landing than concrete?

I would def. do this first, that way you decide where his breaks are etc. Going out hacing in a new place with a new horse and with a new owner is going to overwhelm your horse, whatever it is. Going in a sand school, alone, with an instructor to find out what makes him tick is a calmer experience all round really IMO.

Sorry to sound harsh, I dont mean it!

 

[Skhosu]

You see, some may remember I posted about my sisters mares going vertical, this was about 3/4 weeks after we got her. She wouldn't go through a puddle and napped badly, rearing up and very scary.
I was dubious, and owners said she had never done anything of the sort before.
Since then, horse has done nothing of the sort again, no sign of rearing and I would say it was her settling in.
TBH I would think the horse is trying it out. It may well have done the occasionaly bunny hop before and is so unsettled it has gone vertical.
I would also work in the school first, although a lot of mine have gone hacking near immediately.
Would the old owner come over and ride him out to see if he does the same thing?

 

[Agent XXX999]

Can I also just say that you have said that 'he has not hacked out loads' so you go and hack him..no wonder he was overwhelmed. Logic would say do what the horse is used to until you are used to each other and then teach him new things (like hacking)

I am sorry but no one is looking at the bigger picture here...the poor ned sounds very overwhelmed, and if you were nervous of him I predict (may be wrong) that you 'had hold' of him, behavoiur which may insight rearing... the pony just doesnt sound very relaxed.

My advice would be to take him in the school and 'get the feel' of him before you do any more venturing into the big bad world beyon your yard gates.

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
How can i ask someone to just get on him and take him out knowing what may happen!?!?

[/ QUOTE ]

They are professionals, they know a lot more than your average rider, they can feel situation builds a long time before they get to where you got today, they have 1000 more tricks how to handle and overcome them too.

My concern is it sounds like you will not be able to trust this horse - I had a horse rear up and over on me when it was on trail. It was in the line up, all worked up and nowhere to go - in future I could have controlled the situation, however I did not want it always on my mind. I called the guy up said no, the next day he came to pick her up and said I have another one you might like - who was it you ask?

 

[henryhorn]

That's sad as I was expecting you to say you had done a short hack etc and he was a youngster. At 14 he really would be highly unlikely to start rearing as a new party trick, it sounds like he may have done this with someone before.
We get horses in to retrain that do similar things to yours and find it's nearly always a confidence issue, often an experienced rider can literally nip things in the bud before they get to the rearing stage, and relaxed as you may be, realising the signs of cheekiness takes years of practice.
I understand you may feel unhappy about anyone riding him, but to a professional rider this wouldn't be a problem, and if he does it with them, you then have the proof he isn't suitable.
I would try the safety approach first with the seller, stress you daren't allow your daughter to ride him and ask her to come over and hack him out for you. if she is unwilling you will need to use the small claims' court.
I think from your other posts you will find it near impossible to feel safe on this pony so he would be better returned if this is possible.

 

[Agent XXX999]

whats this fixation with taking the (clearly overwhelmed) horse hacking! Get him in the school and get used to him and build both of your confidence up so you have trust in him and him you. I bet you will go out hacking after 2 weeks in the school and it would be completely different.

I bet my schoolmaster that you will both be better!

I think people tend to panic and give their ponies bad reputations without looking at the bigger picture and thinking out their actions.

Poor pony!

 

[Stella]

I agree with Henryhorn's second post. Whether the original poster was doing the best thing to hack him so quickly or not, there are signs that there could be problems here and that he may very well not be a mother/daughter quiet ride. Leaving it a few weeks to see if it improves will mean that the horse can't be returned and she wouldn't have a case in law because she would be deemed to have accepted it despite it doing things that suggested it wasn't 'as described'.

 

[Parkranger]

I think breed has alot to do with it! TB are well known for throwing temper tantrums and chucking themselves on the floor - not all of them though obviously!

I have to say that if I brought a horse that started rearing it would be back on the trailer faster then it's hooves touched the ground. I cna deal with anything but rearing!

Private sellers have to be careful now - there are alot more laws protecting buyers now - small claims court should be able to deal with this.

Good luck hun - it's not a nice situation and one I've been in myself years ago x

 

[filly190]

A similar thing happened to me, we bought a "safe, steady" t.b from people we knew, got her home and the same story. After two days, I asked them to take her back and refund me, there was no way!!!. I was that desperate I said take her back and just give us a credit note against training and schooling for the future - no way.

A year on, incredible expensive, all the experts etc etc, I gave her away to a local dealer as I would not put my name to that horse.

I would come down very hard and fast on the sellers and insisit she is not fit for purpose. If they refuse, contact a solicitor and work fast and hard to get the horse gone and your money back.

You did not buy a horse for yourself and daughter to spend the next year schooling and spending money on, possibly to find it still is not suitable for you both.

I feel very angrey reading your post, as I have had this done to me. A genuine good horse does not do this, rearing is not acceptable. If you had wanted a project, you would have bought one!! Dont put up with it and make a year's long excuses like I did, only to be thousands out of pocket because we all know how expensive it is to keep a horse and then to have to do this extra work is unacceptable.

Sorry for long post, I feel for your situation so very much and it makes me mad. They may try telling you, it needs time, its you, etc etc. Rubbish! Good horses even when young do not do this. This is previous bad behaviour and most probably the reason why the horse has been sold. I would not be surprised if before you tried it, it had not been ridden, dopped etc.

Good luck

 

[Sparklet]

I'm not one for giving up quickly and realise that all horses 'try you out' at the beginning, however I have never gone looking specifically for a 14 year old horse which has done a bit of everything suitable for mother/dauther ride.

This horse was purchased for a specific job and is clearly not suitable - you can go down the re-schooling route to resolve the rearing problem but why should you? To be honest there are stacks of well behaved 14 year old horses out there looking for new careers as happy hackers so send this one back and take your money elsewhere.

Surely it is exactly the same as someone who buys a horse described as an 'event horse' that refuses to jump after purchase. Why should you start re-schooling the horse to jump?

 

[not_with_it]

For a horse to rear up and stay in balance then I would say he has definatly done this before. I used to do a lot of re-training and I always found that the ones who had just started to rear had no balance when they had a rider on board and would just fall over backwards. The ones who were more experienced knew exactly how far they could go without falling over.

It sounds like he has done this before and with his age I would say its not something new which he has just picked up.