New horse possibly not happy with individual turnout

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
Sorry for the long post, looking for a bit of advice and trying to include all relevant background information!

I’ve recently bought a 3 year old Connemara gelding, he’s kept at a very small and quiet DIY livery yard. At the moment he is on 24/7 individual turnout, as are all the other horses. He has one horse next to him who he can touch, but can’t get close enough to groom etc if wanted to. All other horses are opposite side of the alleyway to him, so not in touching distance.

The problem I am having is that he is becoming increasingly difficult to handle on the ground. I purchased him because he was incredibly quiet and well behaved on the ground, he was very friendly and loved interacting with humans. When I bought him he was used to being groomed, having his feet done, long reining in an arena and on quiet country lanes both on his own and with another horse, had worn tack and had a rider walk on him without batting an eyelid. I had a vetting done on him too which he passed, vet was very complimentary of his temperament.

Seller had him since he was a yearling and he’d always been out 24/7 in a herd, both with youngsters his own age and with older horses. He absolutely loved to play with other horses but if the older ones didn’t want to, they’d put him in his place and he’d respect that. He was never clingy with the other horses, would come in on his own when seller wanted to work with him on the ground without any issues.

When I enquired about him I did inform seller he would be on individual turnout and did they think he would be ok with that. They said yes because he’s not the clingy type.

Problematic behaviour started when he was becoming more reluctant to let me pick out his feet, initially snatching them away but has progressed to trying to kick me every time. When being led he started getting very up into my personal space, to which I have been calmly but firmly asking him to back off every time. Initially I was managing this behaviour ok, however he seems to be getting more and more disgruntled with me as time goes on. When leading now he’s trying to get me out of his space by either pulling ahead or swinging his head around and threatening to bite. I’m trying my hardest to not let him push me away but the times when he does manage it (because at the end of the day he’s always going to be stronger than me) he runs in front of me, rears and strikes out directly at me. So far he’s managed to actually kick me in the leg, chest, and head (I always wear my hat when handling him). I’ve shown seller videos of this behaviour and they’re absolutely stumped, have described it as a complete personality transplant as he’s always been so lovely towards people.

I’m fully aware how much horses can change during their younger years, and I’m fully aware that it can take some horses a long time to settle into a new home, however his behaviour is dangerous and it’s knocking my confidence around him. The only thing the seller and myself can think of is maybe this is a lot of pent up energy he is so used to exerting through playtime with other horses, and that this is coming out as frustration on his behalf. He’s also become very aloof with people, again, seller has described this as a complete change of personality.

I do have a trainer coming out to see him at the weekend to get their thoughts but in all honestly I’m just wandering if this is just not the right home for him. Unfortunately herd turnout is not an option here, and there are no other DIY yards in the area that offer it. Am I being unfair by not giving him more time to settle, or does it sound like this just isn’t the setup that suits him and I should find him a home with somebody who has the appropriate experience and environment for a youngster like this? I really don’t want this situation to get any worse than it already is..
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
IMO Definitely needs herd turnout. He's only young and "solitary confinement" is not natural he wants to play. Could you pay livery and keep him at the sellers herd until an appropriate space at another yard becomes available?
Thanks for your reply. There are so few yards in my area which actually offer herd turnout and those that do are full livery only and unfortunately I just can’t afford that. It seems so many people are against herd turnout out of fear their horses will get hurt..
 

Glitter's fun

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2022
Messages
3,900
Visit site
Seller had him since he was a yearling and he’d always been out 24/7 in a herd, both with youngsters his own age and with older horses. He absolutely loved to play with other horses but if the older ones didn’t want to, they’d put him in his place and he’d respect that.
You have answered your own question.
If you put him back into a similar situation he will return to being the horse you purchased BUT do it soon before his new behaviour becomes permanent.
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
You have answered your own question.
If you put him back into a similar situation he will return to being the horse you purchased BUT do it soon before his new behaviour becomes permanent.
This is exactly my thinking, I don’t want it to get any worse for either of us. I am however feeling a bit of pressure from the seller and others on the yard to just try and push through these “early settling in” stages because there’s a lovely pony underneath all of this, and this is making me feel like I’m being unfair by not giving him a chance..
 

bonny

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2007
Messages
6,698
Visit site
This is exactly my thinking, I don’t want it to get any worse for either of us. I am however feeling a bit of pressure from the seller and others on the yard to just try and push through these “early settling in” stages because there’s a lovely pony underneath all of this, and this is making me feel like I’m being unfair by not giving him a chance..
He doesn’t need any longer being unhappy, his chance will come from keeping him as a horse should be with company and freedom.
 

Equi

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 October 2010
Messages
14,526
Visit site
Have you had a professional help?

I don’t agree with keeping horses individually unless you really need to (due to issues or vet recommended etc) or know they will be okay with it, but I doubt many 3yo will be okay with it. They need that behavioural correction from other horses.
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
Have you had a professional help?

I don’t agree with keeping horses individually unless you really need to (due to issues or vet recommended etc) or know they will be okay with it, but I doubt many 3yo will be okay with it. They need that behavioural correction from other horses.
Professional trainer is coming out at the weekend to have a look at him and give their opinion.

I would always much rather horses be out in herds. Yes there is always a risk they could hurt themselves but I value the importance of allowing them to behave as naturally as possible. If I had the option of herd turnout I would absolutely do it.
 

MidChristmasCrisis

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 August 2014
Messages
4,678
Visit site
His behaviour is probably partly due to individual turn out and being new to you. It’s a difficult scenario to solve easily because whilst you could ask to buddy up in a field with another horse other owners tend not to want the amount of play a youngster introduces with the possible injuries. Our 3 year old went in with my two older mares and there are lots of zoomies and rearing, bucking and kicking ..just out of high spirits. The 12 year old quite likes to play..the 26 year old definitely not. I wonder if you can find a farm type livery with small herd turn out..failing that you d better buy a companion 🤭
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
His behaviour is probably partly due to individual turn out and being new to you. It’s a difficult scenario to solve easily because whilst you could ask to buddy up in a field with another horse other owners tend not to want the amount of play a youngster introduces with the possible injuries. Our 3 year old went in with my two older mares and there are lots of zoomies and rearing, bucking and kicking ..just out of high spirits. The 12 year old quite likes to play..the 26 year old definitely not. I wonder if you can find a farm type livery with small herd turn out..failing that you d better buy a companion 🤭
Nobody at the yard will buddy up because all of their horses are happy and chilled out in their individual fields, understandably they don’t want to risk that changing by buddying up 😕 if only the bank account would stretch to allow for another horse 😅
 

Arzada

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 April 2012
Messages
2,541
Visit site
You know what he needs and I really like that you know what he needs. You both sound lovely. Go on Google satellite view and see if there are any yards that you don't know about. Contact travelling professionals ie farriers, vets, dentists. trimmers, physios etc., explain to them what you're looking for (much like your OP) and ask them if they know of anything that might suit you. Post on Facebook. Adverts in any suitable shops with a noticeboard. Wishing you luck.
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
Sorry to be blunt but you don't need a professional trainer. You need to give him company. Unfortunately I had the same issue in that my yard wouldn't allow me to turn two together so I made the decision to move him 40 mins away so he wasn't alone.
No need to apologise! I’m after people’s straight and honest opinions instead of the “oh just give him more time and wait and see” I’ve been getting from so many others. Doing nothing but letting more time tick by doesn’t always fix things in my opinion..
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
You know what he needs and I really like that you know what he needs. You both sound lovely. Go on Google satellite view and see if there are any yards that you don't know about. Contact travelling professionals ie farriers, vets, dentists. trimmers, physios etc., explain to them what you're looking for (much like your OP) and ask them if they know of anything that might suit you. Post on Facebook. Adverts in any suitable shops with a noticeboard. Wishing you luck.
I am still trying to find a suitable alternative, I’ve had no luck so far and I’m just wandering how much time I should spend waiting for something to come up when it’s possible the longer I leave him where he is now, possibly the worse he will get. I also don’t mean to sound heartless here but I’ve only had him a few weeks, I’m not attached to him yet, at this stage it’s not going to break my heart having to see him go to another home, especially if it’s the right thing to do for him.
 

Zoeypxo

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 July 2021
Messages
1,236
Visit site
Sorry i dont know the area but a quick search on livery list
shows quite a few Suffolk yards.
Just found one called school farm that has diy livery and same sex herd turnout. May be miles from you but take a look on the site
 

Zoeypxo

Well-Known Member
Joined
2 July 2021
Messages
1,236
Visit site
Another one called hedge livery that has herd turnout. Looks good, we dont have this much choice in cornwall!😂
 

lou1346

Member
Joined
16 July 2024
Messages
10
Visit site
Sorry i dont know the area but a quick search on livery list
shows quite a few Suffolk yards.
Just found one called school farm that has diy livery and same sex herd turnout. May be miles from you but take a look on the site
Unfortunately the other side of the county for me! I appreciate you taking a look though 🙂
 

maya2008

Well-Known Member
Joined
10 August 2018
Messages
3,450
Visit site
Put up a post on your local horsey Fb groups - someone might have a field or yard and be willing to take one more, or know of a small livery yard with a space.

I refused to sell our 3yo to a home with individual turnout last week. They were lovely people but it would not have gone well. She’d escape (future SJ pony!) but also she would have become difficult to handle. She’s sweet and easy now because her ‘aunties’ keep her in line!
 

Glitter's fun

Well-Known Member
Joined
1 May 2022
Messages
3,900
Visit site
I once found a temporary place for one of mine at a stud that didn't advertise as a livery yard but they took pity on me when I was stuck.
Phone everyone even slightly horsey you can think of , ask them to pass the word on & tell them it's urgent.
 
Last edited:

AShetlandBitMeOnce

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 January 2015
Messages
6,356
Visit site
Not only is he understimulated but you have removed the protection of the herd from what is a herd bound animal that has never known any different, in a whole new scenario that to him will seem life threatening. He doesn't know you from adam, and if he's scared you a little he will have no trust in you as a leader, and so he is having to advocate for himself and will be living in fight or flight, meaning the smallest of things will tip him over his pressure threshold and result in the adverse behaviour you have been getting. Some horses cope with it, some don't. Dex was on individual turnout for 4 months when he first arrived as a 3yo, albeit with 3 horses in touching/grooming distance, which he did. I was waiting for a field re-shuffle, which really upset some posters on here when I mentioned it, but the yard is brilliant and he coped well and there was an end in sight, you have tried it and he isn't coping, so the only way you are likely to be able to recover your horse is to either take over as the protector and very quickly and efficiently gain his trust and respect, or sell him on/find another yard. I am not sold on the ethics of having such a young horse in isolation with no outlet, so personally if I had no other options, I would sell with full disclosure before he becomes a horse at risk of being passed around.
 

SO1

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 January 2008
Messages
7,041
Visit site
Maybe post on a connemara facebook group anonymously there could be someone local to you who is private and has connies who might be able to take him in as a livery or help you out.

It is going to be quite difficult to sell him if he behaves like this when people view him as it sounds dangerous.

You say you have only had him a few weeks. I don't know how far away the sellers are but would they willingly to come and see him and see how he behaves with them.

I do think it can take a while for horses to settle with new owners and a new yard.

My NF was late gelded and on individual turnout at his previous home. He had a month on individual turnout when he arrived at our livery yard to try and make his routine the same to help him settle before joining the herd.

Since he joined the herd he is more dominant as he moved from being low ranking 5 year old with poor social skills who was getting a few bites and kicks to top of the hierarchy within 9 months. He is 13.2 and his field mates are 16h plus sports horses. He has realised he can boss the other horses around and pushing the boundaries with me sometimes but nothing thankfully like you are experiencing become better in other ways such as with his feet being picked out, having his ear bonnet on he hates flies in his ears and with being fly sprayed, better with farrier.

I think also youngster that have come from professional homes have often been dealt with in perhaps a different way to amateur homes.

With his behaviour when being lead I wonder if it is a bit of separation anxiety from the other horses as he is in a new home even if he can only touch one horse over the fence they could make friends enough for him to be worried when parted.
 
Top