New horse turned into an absolute nightmare, need advice.

You need a proper assessment by an equine vet , you need to tell the vet the whole story and they should assess the horse including him being seen ridden.
Muscle atrophy should have been spotted on his five stage vetting but if you did not spot it on viewing I don't see how you could suggest the original vet missed it .
Atrophy can occur very very quickly it need not have been present on purchase.
You are in a difficult situation you need a clearer view of the horses prognosis, it may be that cutting your losses is the best option and give the horse away twelve weeks rehabbing would cost you £2400 at your present livery costs plus all his other costs there comes a time when cutting your loses is the best way forward.
I am sorry this has happened to you and good luck sorting it out.
 
Goldenstar said:
You need a proper assessment by an equine vet , you need to tell the vet the whole story and they should assess the horse including him being seen ridden.
Muscle atrophy should have been spotted on his five stage vetting but if you did not spot it on viewing I don't see how you could suggest the original vet missed it .
Atrophy can occur very very quickly it need not have been present on purchase.
You are in a difficult situation you need a clearer view of the horses prognosis, it may be that cutting your losses is the best option and give the horse away twelve weeks rehabbing would cost you £2400 at your present livery costs plus all his other costs there comes a time when cutting your loses is the best way forward.
I am sorry this has happened to you and good luck sorting it out.
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I definitely need to get hold of the full vets report first, but as I understood he had at least suggested that it was an underlying long term problem, hence the worrying that this had been missed the first time round. I think once I have another vetting I'll be able to balance the chances that this was present before.

Yes - this is my current problem; whether or not his sale price after this would be worth several more months of livery and vettings or if my losses will continue (it isn't just losses, but really quite stressful for my daughter & I), but I suppose this too boils down to a second vet report.
Thank you for the luck!
 
You don't want another vetting that terms usually refers to a pre purchase vetting what you want is what is normally referred to as a work up this can be done on the yard or sometimes at the surgery you should be present for this and tell the vet the whole story, I would ask around experianced horsey friends to decide who the best vet would be it needs to be one who is a good communicator as you need to have a disscussion about the horse that leaves you clear at the end of it where you are , the horse may need X-rays or scans of some sort ( is he insured) .
These issues may be fixable with time and work with a suitable rider and veterinary imput but the horse may still not be the right one for your daughter I unlike some posters would not turn down out of hand the idea of giving him to the yard owner and retire with your daughter in one piece and chalk it up to experiance.
 
Also I do think your daughter was very overhorsed. If she isn't the most confident she may well be tense when riding and gripping with her knees which setsvthe horse off. I know you have said there has been times being prof schooled horse has tried tankingboff etc but they are able to deal with it. I can't see any reason why after you get a vet check done the horse can't go on to be a good purchase for another rider.
 
It really sounds as if he hasn't settled at the new yard and with his new rider. It depends on how much money you want to keep throwing at this. The cheapest options would be to:

(a) sell him cheaply, and I mean for £1000 or £1500 or so, with full explanation of failed vetting and previous passed vetting, and not suiting your daughter. Perhaps contact some local showjumpers/eventers to see if they know anyone interested.

(b) Find a yard which offers 24/7 turnout and keep him on DIY, let your daughter get used to him and bond with him and keep hard feed to a minimum, and see if he settles down once he loses some fitness.

Personally, if I were you, I'd go for (a). Although it doesn't sound as though theres much wrong with him, and this sort of horse could suit a lot of riders out there.

Your vetting sounds ridiculously strict - what was the vet asked to vet him for exactly? There are so many horses out there doing good jobs who are not technically 100% perfectly sound but will go on for many years.
 
Don't worry too much, just get the vet to look at the issues highlighted, the lameness could have been anything, and it will likely be treatable with vet or physio.

People do buy horses who are not 100% perfect, some people don't even get them vetted (although of course you don't want to sell him knowing he would fail!) and I think marketing him as a hunter could be a good move if you can get a reference.

Hopefully there was some reason he was priced so high, and I doubt these minor issues will make him worthless, that's a big loss! There are cheaper livery options too, just because you are paying that much per month doesn't mean you are stuck paying it until you sell him.

Maybe you could offer this YO a cut of the sale if she can sell him? Don't let her think you'll give him to her otherwise though! Even if you only get 2k back, you can still buy a horse with that these days. We are coming into summer, I'm sure she'll have competition type contacts.
 
You also, if you decide to cut your losses, could give him to the YO, on the condition that if she sold him on you get x amount, Depends what she wants him for. It could be that he is a horse that thrives on hard work.
It is possible that his saddle isnt fitting as well, where he has changed fitness levels.
Did you get any pictures of him just after he came home? If they are good ones it is possible that they show the muscle wastage.
It is also possible that you were directed to a vet in the area that is known not to be so tough on vetting, where as the one used by your yard was a better and more knowledgable horse vet.
That said, flexion tests are a bit subjective.
ANd my vet, who specialises in lameness has stated to me in the past, that most horses have slight hind leg lameness.
Sounds very much to me like the vet that just vetted him is being highly cautious and covering his back big time.
Hope you find what you are looking for long term.
 
Please do not give this horse away! I would personally talk to the vet who vetted the horse for you and explain what was found on the second vetting and suggest first vet comes out and note whether he can see any changes. Vettings are a bit of a lottery.
Do not waste your money getting the bloods tested - there is absolutely no reason to believe he was drugged.
All hunters can be a bit flighty at this time of the year - spring is in the air! Turn him out 24/7 with no hard food. I do not understand why you upped his hard food - what is better - a fat horse or one your daughter can ride? In my opinion there is very little wrong with this horse - more wrong horse for your daughter who maybe is not as strong and confident as she thinks.
You don't say how old she is or whether the horse is too big for her as well.
Talk to first vet, if necessary move the horse to another yard and sell him - I cannot see why you cannot ask what you paid. I, too, would be wary of YM being so keen to take him off your hands! Feel sure he would probably pass another vetting.
 
I would be suspicious of the YM. Nice horse that your daughter can't cope with, try and get you to give him away fro free, you weren't present at ANY vetting. You haven't got the vet's report yet. Maybe there is a few backhanders going on. ... but I'm cynical
 
shaylux said:
I definitely need to get hold of the full vets report first, but as I understood he had at least suggested that it was an underlying long term problem, hence the worrying that this had been missed the first time round. I think once I have another vetting I'll be able to balance the chances that this was present before.
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Once again, and to repeat - you don't have another 'vetting' done. You have your vet up to review the report and examine the horse accordingly.

Yes - this is my current problem; whether or not his sale price after this would be worth several more months of livery and vettings or if my losses will continue (it isn't just losses, but really quite stressful for my daughter & I), but I suppose this too boils down to a second vet report.
Thank you for the luck!
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You bought a £6k horse. There is nothing to suggest that, at the moment, he is not worth that money.
 
Faracat said:
OK, things to consider.

*He might not have a serious problem, so I would not give him away.
*Get all the basics checked (back, teeth, saddle and a Vet to look at the stifle/lameness).
*Is he still hunting fit? Would it be worth bringing him home and letting him down? This might do the lameness the world of good too.
*Get daughter to have lessons to build her confidence.
*See if horse is calmer once less fit.
*See if horse is sound now.
*If horse is now sound but still unsuitable, then sell.

I also like the idea of speaking to the Hunt to see what he was like. Maybe he could be sold as a hunter?
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^this!
 
I would get a copy of the original vetting, the second vetting and then ship them and your fella off to an equine where he can have a full lameness work up. That way you will be fully informed as to what you are dealing with.

I certainly would not be signing him over to your YM at this point, no matter how nice or trustworthy she is.
 
huntley said:
Please do not give this horse away! I would personally talk to the vet who vetted the horse for you and explain what was found on the second vetting and suggest first vet comes out and note whether he can see any changes. Vettings are a bit of a lottery.
Do not waste your money getting the bloods tested - there is absolutely no reason to believe he was drugged.
All hunters can be a bit flighty at this time of the year - spring is in the air! Turn him out 24/7 with no hard food. I do not understand why you upped his hard food - what is better - a fat horse or one your daughter can ride? In my opinion there is very little wrong with this horse - more wrong horse for your daughter who maybe is not as strong and confident as she thinks.
You don't say how old she is or whether the horse is too big for her as well.
Talk to first vet, if necessary move the horse to another yard and sell him - I cannot see why you cannot ask what you paid. I, too, would be wary of YM being so keen to take him off your hands! Feel sure he would probably pass another vetting.
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This is very good advice.
 
Sorry to hear of your troubles and hope that you find a way to solve them.

My feelings are

1 Have that blood checked - people can be very cunning about administering drugs and some horses don't need much to take the edge off them.

2 Have a saddler check the fit of your saddle

3 Have a chiropractor out to check over his back, muscle wastage is usually the result of compensating for discomfort.

4 Flexion tests are often misleading - I had a horse fail on one and so later sold the horse cheap hoping that the buyer wouldn't have a vet check done - she did, including X rays and the horse flew through with flying colours. Eventually headed up to UK and went on to 2* HT's.

5 Have the yard change his feed to high fibre and nothing else and see if he settles on a lower energy diet.

As far as the stifle problem goes - a friend sued the vet who did her horses check as he failed to notice that the horse had been operated on for a stifle problem.
 
I would say that you have made your mind up that he isn't right for your daughter and so he needs to be sold. However it doesn't seem that realististically he isn't a lovely horse who in the right hands could do very well.

I would follow the advise of others on here who suggest questioning the vet report - am I right in thinking you haven't even seen it? If so v.odd. He is your horse you should manage these things not the YM - if you allow others to deal with important issues like vetting they will assume you are incompetant and take advantage.

It seems his job is hunting. Most hunts will now send their hunters off to grass for the beginning part of summer. Either turn him away or contact your local hunt with a sensible advert (outlining his successes on the hunting field) and ask them to send it to their mailing list. There is no reason that he isn't still worth the money you paid for him. You just have to have faith in the sale. If you send him to auction he will be bought by a dealer who will sell him for £6k. Most local hunts are professional and helpful - get their help
 
Just a thought, but if he has a really sore back (as indicated in the 2nd vetting) then couldn't this be the cause of his "bad" behaviour? If you get your own vet to check him over, get his saddle checked etc you may find he was just in pain and not just being naughty. Inconsistent behaviour may indicate he is more sore some days than others depending what is being asked of him?
 
Firstly. How old is the horse and what EXACTLY is he being fed??! These two factors can have a MASSIVE affect on a horse, especially with such a dramatic change in workload - 3 days hunting a week down to a 30 minute - 1 hour hack a day is a big change... plus some horses are actually intollerant to the simplest of feeds so by removing these you remove the problem.

Secondly, I would take the vetting with a pinch of salt but if you are really concerned, get your vet out to investigate this 'stifle problem' and insist on scans and Xrays to rule out or confirm your fears.... if he's insured you'll only have the excess to pay, if not, xrays will cost you a few hundred pounds.

The muscle in the wrong places could simply be because he has been worked incorrectly but it is worth getting a chiropractor to give him the once over, and getting his teeth and tack checked too.

I wouldn't give him away, if anything I'd be tempted to turn him away in a field for 6 months and bring him back into work sensibly and slowly...
 
I think you have been given some great advice on here. Just bear in mind that although you trust your YO and she's been very helpful to you, please remember that first and foremost she is running a business. Good luck
 
MrsJingle said:
I don't understand, your YM is saying she believes the horse will probably be OK for a good few years despite this latest vets report, but on the other hand she will take him off your hands for nothing? I bet she will, Im sorry but good reputation and well known doesn't count for a much if she is offering to take the horse and pay you nothing! Flipping cheek of her.

Please be very cautious OP - there is every chance that there is very little wrong with your horse, and if there is something it could be very fixable. I would get the third opinion, and then move the horse to a decent sales livery yard.

The only problem is probably that you paid too much for the horse in the first place, and it simply isn't the right horse for your daughter.
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Totally agree with MrsJingle!

I bet she will take him for free, what a cheek. I bet she would sell him few months later for good profit too :rolleyes: as he would miraculously become better!

Does not matter about how well she is respected.....she is a business women! do NOT give him away for free!
 
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zigzag said:
I would be suspicious of the YM. Nice horse that your daughter can't cope with, try and get you to give him away fro free, you weren't present at ANY vetting. You haven't got the vet's report yet. Maybe there is a few backhanders going on. ... but I'm cynical
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I agree! I can not believe some horsey people, I always used to be so trusting then you find things out and yes......it does happen...often!

Terrible world sometimes :( OP sounds so nice.
 
Sorry forgot to say....

Problem is with getting another opinion off YOUR vet if you tell them about the 2nd vetting is that they will always want to cover their own ass! so if they are told there is potential issue somewhere (stiffle did you say?) then pretty much they will be more inclined to NOT go completely against the other vet! -unless they make you pay for x rays / scans etc............!

In my opinion, I would give him few weeks off the market, let him settle more, take him off hard feed and turn out as much as poss and only get him schooled 3 - 4 times per week (including light hacking). Less fit the better in my opinion :)

After the above period, put back on market at price you would like and see what happens and how next vetting goes........ :)
 
Very good advice. Personally and don't take too much from it but if I was you I'd just turn him away (get his back looked at) and leave him for a few months. Put him on grass livery and will save you a few pounds. No reason he can't be brought in for a brush etc so your daughter keeps her confidence up on the ground. Then get a recommended professional to bring him back into work, preferably an instructor so can teach your daughter at the same time.

Please don't get your YM to bring him back, I wouldn't trust her.

There's nothing saying he won't go back to beinh that lovely horse for your daughter.
 
I would get a vet out, and see what they say. I would also use a physio in this instance. If a physio didn't find an awful lot wrong, I would then be booking a visit from the dentist and the saddler.
 
wench said:
I would get a vet out, and see what they say. I would also use a physio in this instance. If a physio didn't find an awful lot wrong, I would then be booking a visit from the dentist and the saddler.
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Ditto this ^^^ Out of curiosity is he being worked with the tack you tried him in? It could be something as simple as the saddle, if it has been changed or if he has gained weight, as you mentioned he did earlier, so not all is lost.
 
blue89 said:
Firstly I would like to say I and deeply sorry to hear about your situation, I am not an expert on this but I do agree with 'claracanter' is to contact the vets that performed the 5 stage vetting for you, they should have blood samples as this is taken at stage 4 and are stored for 6 months and can be checked for the prescence of tranquillisers or pain killers if required.

Maybe prehapes contact your local vet also and ask for their advice and what actions you should then take, because surely you are eligible for compensation for the misdiagnosed vetting and false advertising.

I really hope that the situation becomes resolved for you and your daughter. keep us posted on what happens.
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I agree with this. Get the blood run its approximately £264 but will show up if the horse is on any bute or tranques. Did you buy from a private person or a dealer, if dealer you have a lot more recourse. Speak to the vet who vetted him for you and also the person that you bought him from. Very sorry to hear this sad tale, I have been there, let us know how you get on.
 
zigzag said:
I would be suspicious of the YM. Nice horse that your daughter can't cope with, try and get you to give him away fro free, you weren't present at ANY vetting. You haven't got the vet's report yet. Maybe there is a few backhanders going on. ... but I'm cynical
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Agree with Zigzag Im synical and trust no one however friendly they may seem to you, I was caught by a very dodgy dealer although I didn't realise she was dodgy at the time.

Re not getting bloods run, people will stoop to anything when selling a horse, he could quite easily have been given something, the horse I bought had been.
 
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