New horse turned into an absolute nightmare, need advice.

Charem said:
I would get a copy of the original vetting, the second vetting and then ship them and your fella off to an equine where he can have a full lameness work up. That way you will be fully informed as to what you are dealing with.

I certainly would not be signing him over to your YM at this point, no matter how nice or trustworthy she is.
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Agree with this.
 
SpanishNeddy said:
I agree! I can not believe some horsey people, I always used to be so trusting then you find things out and yes......it does happen...often!

Terrible world sometimes :( OP sounds so nice.
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Agree Spanish Neddy the horse world is full of rogues and con artists all too often. TRUST NO ONE
 
Poor you and your daughter.

First question: gut-feeling - do you and your daughter want to keep him and make it work? Or do you wish you'd never bought him and he wasn't yours? Once you've decided that, then you have plenty of options, only one of them instant (option 1) but all of them giving you a way forwards.

Option 1: give him to the YO. Walk away. You've lost £6k. Instant solution. It's a lot of money but it is only money. There is more to life. You start over again. No hard feelings. No recriminations a year down the line if you see he's a talented BSJA horse and she's just sold him for 20k and built an indoor school with the proceeds! Put it down to experience.
Next time be present at vettings, get bloods, look really long and hard at why your daughter needs a hunting-fit young gorgeous-looking expensive warmblood rather than a hairy cheap native/cob (and there may be very good reason why she wants a warmblood rather than a native/cob). Get your daughter lessons meanwhile to bring back her confidence.

Option 2: turn him away to grass with company for a couple of months, cut out ALL his feed other than salt lick (and hay if no grass), go and see and brush him every day but otherwise let him chillout and lose his hunting muscle and settledown and be a horse. Make friends with him. When you bring him back to work, start with hacking in company. Take it slowly. Don't expect him to work in an outline. If he's been hunting all winter, then he won't have schooling muscles. Expect to spend this summer working him lightly and slowly, with support through lessons, not taking him out competing every weekend.

Option 3: as for Option 2 but including get your vet to check him for soreness anywhere, get the saddlefit checked, the teeth checked.

Option 4: leave him at current yard with YO doing the current stuff with him and advertise him at £6k same as you paid for him, "ex-Beaufort hunter, hunting-fit, bought for daughter to (school? dressage? etc?) but over-horsed". Let prospective owners vet him and if he fails another vetting, some buyers will negotiate a lower price.

Option 5: Option 4 but get option 3 done first.

Option 6: schooling/sales livery yard. More money out before you get any money in and another interim relocation for the neddy.

Good luck with it. there are plenty of ways forward, your daughter and you just need to sit down, step back from the emotions of it, and be honest with yourselvs about how you feel about the horse.
 
Just a thought with regards to your yard owner ....
If she were to take the horse off your hands she's doing you a massive favour in some respects and might think its the best option for your circumstances and she might be perfectly genuine in wanting to help you.

However she has a business to run and a reputation to consider and would not take on a horse with the associated day to day costs and loss of a livery's income for that stable, if the horse was either going to be a problem in any way, or cost her silly money with regards to vets or physios etc. in my opinion the fact that she is willing to take on the horse means that in her opinion there isn't much wrong with it. If she is indeed highly thought of and respected, then you also need to consider there isn't much wrong with the horse and sell it accordingly.
There is no need to mention the failed vetting. It is up to a prospective buyer to get their own vetting and if they don't that's up to them. As others have said a vetting is a snapshot of the horse at that particular time and some vets are renowned for being very strict, if only to cover their own backs, even if there's very little wrong with the horse. (No horse is 100% sound anyway, you can always find something wrong with every one). There's no need to give this horse away, that really would be a waste of money!
 
Gosh OP so sorry for you and your daughter. As a mum I know how guilty you feel when you have this situation - been there, done that, and lost my six grand too! (more than once).

Suechoccy has set out a brilliant set of options for you. The main thing I would add is that if you do decide to move the horse on - in whatever way - do not spend time punishing yourself for bad choices - many, many others of us have done the same and the main thing to do is to learn from it and go with the advice of the guys on here as to how to buy a horse. My best decision ever (after a couple of disasters) was to get buying help - I used Ellen Chapman, The Equine Agent, who was wonderful, but there are plenty of other people.

Wishing you and your daughter the very best of luck with whatever you decide.
 
You are getting a lot of good advice here OP however if asked you must say the horse failed a vetting it's dishonest not to.
And I would not waste the time of a selling agent until you know where you are with this soundness issue it may be something easily resolved.
 
just adding not sure if Goldenstar and I crossed posts or whether you were referring to my comment about buying agent -just to clarify I meant if OP buys another horse, not to use one to sell this one for her (but you might be referring to a completely different point). :p
 
I bought "my mare" from a highly respected yard - in fact so respected that the owners had God hang a permanent rainbow over it with the sun shining through!

At the time, what I paid was a lot of money, on the grounds that she would be so much from anyone so consequently that plus almost double from this yard..... and on top of that - she had "an excellent temperment." I bought her secretly for my wife as she had learned to ride mostly on her and had become very attached; however; as soon as said mare was only being gently ridden by one dainty lady rider - she went beserk!

She had been used as a school horse for anything up to six hours a day and the only time she'd ever gone out on her own was when an instructor took her for a blow out. I rode her around a flooded common jumping 15ft drainage ditches the first time I sat on her and the more we did, the more excited she became. There's no way on earth she was a suitable horse for me missus - bit of luck on my part there because she still loved her and I got to keep her!

If I'd have gone to see yours...... no, if I'd had read the advert:- hunted with The Beaufort ( my tongue would have been lolling..) I'd have cast my mind back to that flooded common.
 
Just to clarify I wasn't suggesting you deny any previous vetting, if you are asked I would expect you to be honest about it, but there's also no need to put it in big bold red italics in your advert :) :)
 
If the horse has a high head carriage and is in discomfort, it might also explains why he takes off, he might be suitable for your daughter once the problem is sorted. I would not want a horse in pain being schooled, even though he might not take off with a stronger rider.

As people have said, get a vet to come and assess him and find out what might be wrong.

You could talk to YO to see if you could have him out in the field to reduce livery bill as you sort out whats going on with him. I would also put on a basic diet of ad-lib hay and may be a magnesium calmer with a some pony nuts until matters are clearer.
 
Hello all, thanks for the large number of replies! I'll try to respond to some of your questions.
Today I spoke with the vet who from the 2nd vetting, who was really very helpful in explaining what he'd assessed. Again, I'm still waiting for the report which the buyer is in the process of sending to me, but (from some hastily scribbled notes over the phone which I'm now struggling to read!) there was mention of being lame on both hind legs before & after flexing, and repeated disuniting on both legs when ridden (which has been noted before), not being very 'active' in the hind & bilateral hind lameness. He therefore advised the buyer that this would be likely to lead to later problems although he can continue with ridden work now as it is only mild at present. He mentioned the possibility of this being a stifle issue, and his back.

I'm well aware that my daughter is overhorsed with him, and she isn't riding him anymore at this point (she was having lessons on him a few weeks ago, and managing with someone fully focusing on her throughout the lesson). He is however not the horse for her at this point, perhaps in a few years time but she's taken a good blow to her confidence with him so we've really decided that keeping him isn't an option.

In response to the comments that he could easily be sold even with issues/that they may not appear after another vetting, this is true, but in 2 months of heavily advertising him around the place I had only one phonecall and viewing which became nothing - the buyer for whom the vetting was done was a very lucky find through the yard. I don't believe that he will be easy to sell, having spoken to a good number of people when searching for a horse as well, and the failed vetting only contributes to this. We know now that he really hasn't done much in terms of eventing/schooling (though has proven to have pretty good potential eventing in the past few weeks with YM), contributing further.

Suechoccy said:
Poor you and your daughter.

Option 1: give him to the YO. Walk away. You've lost £6k. Instant solution. It's a lot of money but it is only money. There is more to life. You start over again. No hard feelings. No recriminations a year down the line if you see he's a talented BSJA horse and she's just sold him for 20k and built an indoor school with the proceeds! Put it down to experience.
Next time be present at vettings, get bloods, look really long and hard at why your daughter needs a hunting-fit young gorgeous-looking expensive warmblood rather than a hairy cheap native/cob (and there may be very good reason why she wants a warmblood rather than a native/cob). Get your daughter lessons meanwhile to bring back her confidence.
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I also am very aware that my YM has a business/reputation, and that in 6months time I might see him for sale for a hefty amount, with no health issues, but at this point I'm really leaning towards turning in before losing anything else. It has been really stressful for everyone since Day 1 with him, and going down any other pathway of sales livery/turning away, with the possible consequences of him still turning out to be troublesome to sell down the line is hanging in my mind. Instead, I think finding some lessons for my daughter to begin rebuilding her confidence, and steer her in the direction of something hairy and native instead would be a good start!

I have now a vet coming to assess him on monday, who specialises in orthopaedics, as was recommended by the vet who I spoke to earlier today. I think I now just need to wait for the outcome, and get a second opinion.
 
All the best , I know it's a lot of money but it is only money and your daughter is in one piece that's priceless and poor boy it's not his fault either it's rotten all round.
 
Goldenstar said:
All the best , I know it's a lot of money but it is only money and your daughter is in one piece that's priceless and poor boy it's not his fault either it's rotten all round.
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Completely agree, its a horrible situation for you, your daughter and the horse. I really hope something sorts out and that you daughter can rebuild her confidence and find a horse more suited in the near future.
 
I'm no expert but I think people have missed one point from your OP. You keep ponies at home, meaning you have facilities to turn him away at little or no cost to you.

IMO there is no point in keeping him on full livery, whether there is something wrong with him or not, turn him away. Get vet checks done at home if necessary.

Let him settle in and chill and hopefully you will have a completely different horse (temperament wise) in a few months.

You never know your daughter might get on with him and if not he will still be easier to sell.

If not and there is something seriously wrong, at least you wont have been pumping more money into him and can decide what to do then.
 
rockysmum said:
I'm no expert but I think people have missed one point from your OP. You keep ponies at home, meaning you have facilities to turn him away at little or no cost to you.
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*Is he still hunting fit? Would it be worth bringing him home and letting him down? This might do the lameness the world of good too.
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:p :p :p


;) :D



OP, whatever you decide, I hope that everything works out for you, your daughter and the horse.
 
I think you may have a case against the vet who vetted him for you. I would look very carefully through your vet. Certificate and see if he noticed anything. Talk about this to the vet who is coming to see him.
 
Just want to say hope it all goes ok whatever you decide to do. We were in a similar situation last year with an ISH we bought for my husband. We'd done all the checks, tried him a few times, vetted etc. But his personality changed pretty much as soon as we got him home. He didn't have a good work ethic, would try it on both ridden and on the ground. All stuff we handled initially. He then started to drop a shoulder to ditch OH. He'd had all the checks done on back, teeth, tack. When he'd ditched OH i got on afterwards and first few times he was ok, then he tried the same with me. Didn't ditch me but i got off before he tried again. We decided then he had to go before he obliterated my OH's confidence. We took quite a hit on his price as we just wanted him gone quickly. I contacted a sports horse producer near us, told her the situation, sent pics and vids of him to her and she came and viewed, put him on the lunge and she agreed to take him. Was a 1/4 the price we paid for him but i sold him within 5 days of deciding we had to go. I know he's threw tantrums whilst there too which in a way was reassuring that if he's doing that with professional rider then we weren't quite as useless as we'd thought! He was simply just the wrong horse for OH and needs to be in a competition home with a stronger rider. We could have hung on for weeks/months trying to claw back as much money as possible but felt it was better to just put it down to experience and come away without OH dreading riding again. He's now up for sale over 5 times what we got for him and more than we initially paid for him. But i knew he would be. She's put the time and work in to him we weren't able/capable to so good luck to her! I know he's gone to someone reputable too which if we'd had to advertise at a low price i'm not sure would have been the case.
I guess just wanted to highlight that although may not be anywhere near what you paid for him, there are people that will take them off your hands and at least get some money back. Think also you're doing the right thing with your daughter no longer riding him. Confidence is so fragile.
 
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FabioandFreddy said:
Just want to say hope it all goes ok whatever you decide to do. We were in a similar situation last year with an ISH we bought for my husband. We'd done all the checks, tried him a few times, vetted etc. But his personality changed pretty much as soon as we got him home. He didn't have a good work ethic, would try it on both ridden and on the ground. All stuff we handled initially. He then started to drop a shoulder to ditch OH. He'd had all the checks done on back, teeth, tack. When he'd ditched OH i got on afterwards and first few times he was ok, then he tried the same with me. Didn't ditch me but i got off before he tried again. We decided then he had to go before he obliterated my OH's confidence. We took quite a hit on his price as we just wanted him gone quickly. I contacted a sports horse producer near us, told her the situation, sent pics and vids of him to her and she came and viewed, put him on the lunge and she agreed to take him. Was a 1/4 the price we paid for him but i sold him within 5 days of deciding we had to go. I know he's threw tantrums whilst there too which in a way was reassuring that if he's doing that with professional rider then we weren't quite as useless as we'd thought! He was simply just the wrong horse for OH and needs to be in a competition home with a stronger rider. We could have hung on for weeks/months trying to claw back as much money as possible but felt it was better to just put it down to experience and come away without OH dreading riding again. He's now up for sale over 5 times what we got for him and more than we initially paid for him. But i knew he would be. She's put the time and work in to him we weren't able/capable to so good luck to her! I know he's gone to someone reputable too which if we'd had to advertise at a low price i'm not sure would have been the case.
I guess just wanted to highlight that although may not be anywhere near what you paid for him, there are people that will take them off your hands and at least get some money back. Think also you're doing the right thing with your daughter no longer riding him. Confidence is so fragile.
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I salute you for posting this, having a pretty knackered body now as a result of horsey adventures it just not worth the risk of riding in the circunmtances you describe .
The moment you sell a horse that does not suit you it stops costing you money and you sold to exactly the right sort of person , it you see him out and about doing well be proud you did the right thing by him.
 
rockysmum said:
I'm no expert but I think people have missed one point from your OP. You keep ponies at home, meaning you have facilities to turn him away at little or no cost to you.

IMO there is no point in keeping him on full livery, whether there is something wrong with him or not, turn him away. Get vet checks done at home if necessary.

Let him settle in and chill and hopefully you will have a completely different horse (temperament wise) in a few months.

You never know your daughter might get on with him and if not he will still be easier to sell.

If not and there is something seriously wrong, at least you wont have been pumping more money into him and can decide what to do then.
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I'm glad someone agrees! I alluded to this idea a couple of pages back! It is amazing what a change of routine and lifestyle can do for a horse ;)
 
Personally I'd sell/give away to YM and cut your losses. Your daughter comes first and the longer she is without a suitable horse she enjoys being around the less likely she's going to want to get back into riding. My daughter is 12 and we were fortunate to purchase a smashing coloured show cob last May. This mare is perfect, she's my daughters first horse and more forward going than ponies she's had before but what a great choice we made. They've come on so far in 11 months. Our mare had failed a previous vetting on hind flexion tests and we knew this before we bought her so a failed vetting isn't the end of the world.
Good luck in whatever you decide to do but remember you haven't failed or done anything wrong, just haven't got the right horse this time.
 
I had a bad experience buying a horse some years ago, from a well known dealer. Horse started to play up as soon as it arrived. Dealer wouldn't take it back and the vet, who had been recommended by the dealer had apparently thrown the blood samples away after a couple of weeks. The horse turned out to be half the age I was told and most certainly not suitable for the novice rider I has told them I was!

In the end I found a dealer who did me a swop for a cheaper horse, its an option worth looking into.
 
There is also, of course, that you can part ex him with a dealer towards something that your daughter feels confident on, as again if done right, you should be able to have a guarantee with whatever you get x
 
God that is a hard one. Your daughter needs something she can have fun on and this horse is not fun at all! Get shot of it asap or turn it away at home for the summer after getting a good physio (and I mean a good one!!) to take a look first.

Find your daughter a nice big pony sort - something that has seen it done it so she can have some fun this summer. I used to go for the "sporty model" but have to say that my beautiful ID show cob is the best move I have ever made!

Best of luck.
 
Have never posted before, only read comments, but this seems similar to my current experience. Six weeks ago I purchased an alleged saint that had hunted all season with Beaufort. Viewed the horse (rode it in the school and hacked out), had five stage vetting - all fine. Paid a lot of money for the horse and rode it three times after it arrived with no trouble. Went to ride a fourth time and found I had a different horse. It tried to bite me and kick me when grooming, so thinking perhaps it had a girth gall, I left if a few days to settle. No improvement in its demeanour in the stable, so a few days later called the vet, who examined it and said it had a bad back. Since then, it has been a downward spiral. When you get on, as soon as you ask it to move forward, it bucks. I have had vets, saddlers, physios, instructors ..... nobody can get to the bottom of the problem and the previous owner - of course - will not have the horse back as the horse passed the vetting and so she says the problem must lie with me. What could possibly have happened in the space of 5 days that the horse went from perfectly rideable, to totally unrideable?

I had the blood tested (at vast expense) and that came back negative. So I am now faced with the prospect of spending thousands of pounds on x-rays/scans to determine whether or not there is a spinal problem - which may or may not be treatable. I cannot address the behaviour without eliminating a physical cause. If there is a physical cause I might have some redress if it is found to be a long-standing or pre-existing condition, but only if I sue either the vendor or the vet who performed the vetting. More money - on lawyers - with no guarantee of success. If, heaven forbid, it is the result of an injury that happened shortly after he arrived (but what??), my insurance will not cover that. In fact, my insurance won't cover ANYTHING in this situation as it all falls within the 14 day exclusion period.

If I cut my losses and walk away from this horse before spending any more on it (I couldn't sell it, obviously), I will still be looking at a black hole of around £10,000, which will put me out of the game for good.

This couldn't be more devastating as my last, beloved, horse that I had for 7 years had to be pts in February as a result of neurological problems. The time spent diagnosing, treating and trying to rehabilitate him before he eventually relapsed meant no riding for 7 months. So now, here I am again, seemingly about to take shares in my local veterinary practice, with nothing to ride.
 
Realty horrible situation both op and lola43 find themselves in. I have a friend who had a very similar situation to lola43 and her horse is currently being rehabilitated at the moment. Some people were very sceptical about this route she's taken but she's having great results and fingers crossed she will finally have a horse she can ride again shortly.
 
It wont cost thousands to take a couple of xrays of the spine. If you have only had the horse six weeks, you must have had a lot of time to organise different physios/vets/instructors etc...
 
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