new horse turns out to be a rearer-advice please

Have to say having had a serial rearer (who I managed to get to stop doing it!!!) who napped badly and spun on a sixpence whilst in the air, with a bit of work and hard graft she turned into a nice sane hacker.

Have to say blood sweat and tears went into it along with LOTS of frustration and getting off and on to get her moving forwards but perseverance won out.

I eventually had to just leave her no other option BUT to go forwards but learn she did, took me a good few months but never looked back after it.
 
I most sincerely hope that you haven't lost your nerve. It strikes me that you and he may just not be right for one another. He sounds as if he might do better in a more active, hacking, hunting, LDR or Endurance family, with plenty to stimulate him. You say you had only hacked him twice in 2 months? That is simply not fair to the horse.[/QUOTE]

No I haven't lost my nerve, but I'm not risking my safety anymore. He is in an active home, I went away for a month 3 weeks after I got him and my instructor took him out on 2 hour hacks 3 times a week. Only since the ostepath came have things slowed down a bit, we have been trying to pinpoint the problem which is why he has not done as much as I would of liked. I mysef have hacked twice but my friend/instructor has hacked him a fair bit a week.

I'm sorry but your comment has really really annoyed me. I have tried so hard to make things work. He has had plenty to stimulate him, he has had plenty of exercise daily. But a combination of waiting 2 weeks for a saddler and being put on a programme by the ostepath meant he has not done as much as I hoped. So don't you dare tell me he should be in a better home doing more 'stimulating' things as I have worked so so hard to make this work, and thanks for baisically calling me a mean owner, thankyou very much! but obviously what I have been doing is not enough in your standards.....
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
This is ridiculous........
.......this is ridiculous!!!
quite frankly ignore Always Henesy
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Slightly unnecessary IMO :rolleyes: AH does have a valid point, all we know is that the horse is currently dangerous for the OP, not why..

OP, just had a look through your previous threads. You've mentioned bucking and spooking before, but not sure you've mentioned rearing?

Is this sort of correct

Horse is a 6 year old, was obviously working fairly well in the past to be competing BYEH as a 5 year old.
Bought from a dealer, 'bargain for the quality' Do you know how long he'd been at the dealers?
Difficult from the start, spooky and difficult, even on the ground. Moved yards recently.
Saddle problems meaning the horse has had quite a lot of time off - did you get the saddle sorted before your holiday/did your instructor ride him while you were away?
Also had dental and back issues.

I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time of it, and I quite agree that you shouldn't get back on the horse. Just trying to put some pieces together here :( I feel sorry for the pair of you.
 
Poor horse , don't get back on him .
I think I would return him to the dealer.
Did he have a five stage vetting when you bought hiim ?
Horses rear for many reasons the difficultly is in teasing out why .
But OP this not a job for you .
 
Always Henesy said:
I will thank you to keep the tone of your post slightly less aggressive...the OP is well within her rights to ignore me. The OP has asked for advice regarding her rearing horse. I have given my advice and she is perfectly entitled to ignore it.

The dealer is unlikely to give her the money back - have you any experience of dealers at all? Legal action is a possibility, but costly and to what end?
Do you seriously think the dealer would do the right thing by the horse if they did give her the money back?

If I was the OP I would not have the potential death or serious injury of another human being on my conscience if the horse were to go back to the dealer. But maybe that is because I care about others.
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The post was not aggressive, it was factual & I do have experience of dealers. If the buyer does nothing regarding this matter then the dealer pockets a nice little earner & the buyer stands the loss which they should not have to do. What the dealer does after the horse is returned to him is up to the dealer, it is nothing to do with the buyer. You are not the OP, you may be able to afford to lose your money on a horse purchase, pay for the animal to be PTS plus pay for the disposal of the carcase but possibly the OP cannot & certainly should not have to.

You say 'I have given my advice & she is perfectly entitled to ignore me', & I gave my opinion as well that infact she should.
 
Could you be blocking him with your hands? If you are feeling nervous, you might not even realise that you are doing it. I only ask because I've seen horses that are not rearers, go right up when blocked by the reins but pushed on with the leg.
 
rhino said:
Slightly unnecessary IMO :rolleyes: AH does have a valid point, all we know is that the horse is currently dangerous for the OP, not why..

OP, just had a look through your previous threads. You've mentioned bucking and spooking before, but not sure you've mentioned rearing?

Is this sort of correct

Horse is a 6 year old, was obviously working fairly well in the past to be competing BYEH as a 5 year old.
Bought from a dealer, 'bargain for the quality' Do you know how long he'd been at the dealers?
Difficult from the start, spooky and difficult, even on the ground. Moved yards recently.
Saddle problems meaning the horse has had quite a lot of time off - did you get the saddle sorted before your holiday/did your instructor ride him while you were away?
Also had dental and back issues.

I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time of it, and I quite agree that you shouldn't get back on the horse. Just trying to put some pieces together here :( I feel sorry for the pair of you.
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I thought I had mentioned rearing in another post, but I read through them and I obviously haven't, my mistake!

the bit about him doing BYEH is corrrect. He had been at the dealers a month.

He is lovley on the ground and is not difficult to handle at all. We got over the spookiness in the school and the previous times I hacked him past tractors etc... Yes he moved from the dealers to my yard.

We thought it was his saddle but it was actually his neck (the osteo could not find any sore patches that would show the saddle didn't fit). While I was away my instructor stopped riding him halfway through the month I was away and lunged him as he was acting up and we where waiting for an apointment. I have been following the osteos programme since I got back- lunging in a pessoa behind the vertical 4 times a week and hacking twice a week. In total he has probably only had about 2 weeks of doing no exercise (saddler and osteo etc) but all the rest of the time he has either been lunged, hacked or schooled.

He did have dental problems but his teeth have been done and the osteo said his back was fine-it was his neck.
 
Faracat said:
Could you be blocking him with your hands? If you are feeling nervous, you might not even realise that you are doing it. I only ask because I've seen horses that are not rearers, go right up when blocked by the reins but pushed on with the leg.
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as far as I'm aware no, I have been trying to give with the hands and leg on at the first sign of him acting up like me and my instructor where working on the first time he reared with me.
 
Faracat said:
Could you be blocking him with your hands? If you are feeling nervous, you might not even realise that you are doing it. I only ask because I've seen horses that are not rearers, go right up when blocked by the reins but pushed on with the leg.
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Me too Faracat, but you cant assess this issue online OP needs to stay safe and send the horse back to the dealer.
 
Polos, I'm sorry if I upset you, and it certainly wasn't meant to be patronising - especially as I gave away to a more suitable home a horse who I couldn't stop, but the new people had no trouble with whatsover - quite galling, I think you'd agree.

You didn't make clear that your instructor had been taking the horse out hacking. You only said what YOU had done - i.e hacked out twice - so obviously I take that back entirely.

But as another post (thank god, as I thought I'd be the only one to say it) told you, they had a rearer which they got right. It needn't be the end of the road. As I told you, I've ridden three rearers (probably more but I don't recall the others). One pony reared to his dying day, one gave it up as soon as he went hunting and NEVER reared again, and the Lond Distance horse had stopped rearing long before I ever got on his back.

What I don't think, but maybe I missed it? you've told us is what your instructor says?

I've ridden, hunted, hunter-trialled, done non-competive LDR for over 60 years now. I've ridden over 70 horses whose names I can remember, and probably more. My gut feeling is that you don't want to progress with this horse. So either have it out with the dealer (which may be difficult); persevere with him yourself (which I don't think you or your mother wish to do); find him another jockey to see if that sorts the problem, or, as many on here have said, sadly, PTS.
 
If he was mine, I'd probably turn him away for a bit, out 24/7 and let him chill out and ensure the neck was sorted. Meanwhile, I'd be chasing up previous owners and finding out why they passed him on. You never know, he's young, scopey and not feeling right with his neck, he may still come good, possibly with another rider who clicked with him.
 
whats he like with another rider sorry if you have to repeat yourself too many posts he could be testing you you have done well staying on if you bought off a dealer go to trading standards
 
Goldenstar said:
Me too Faracat, but you cant assess this issue online OP needs to stay safe and send the horse back to the dealer.
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I do agree with you, staying safe is the number one thing here.

as far as I'm aware no, I have been trying to give with the hands and leg on at the first sign of him acting up like me and my instructor where working on the first time he reared with me.
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This does not sound like the right horse for you at all, he needs to go back to the dealer.
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
The post was not aggressive, it was factual & I do have experience of dealers. If the buyer does nothing regarding this matter then the dealer pockets a nice little earner & the buyer stands the loss which they should not have to do. What the dealer does after the horse is returned to him is up to the dealer, it is nothing to do with the buyer. You are not the OP, you may be able to afford to lose your money on a horse purchase, pay for the animal to be PTS plus pay for the disposal of the carcase but possibly the OP cannot & certainly should not have to.

You say 'I have given my advice & she is perfectly entitled to ignore me', & I gave my opinion as well that infact she should.
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Giving your take on a situation should not be totally dismissive of another. Your post was almost a personal attack on my view - therefore not necessary and not particularly helpful. The OP can make her own mind up. My advice was to the OP - not you.
I agree that the OP was obviously sold a horse not fit for purpose and the dealer should be governed by the sale of goods act etc etc. However, the reality is that the dealer will have known this horse was dangerous and is unlikely to take it back/offer a refund. The best the OP can hope for is an exchange and that is not a great prospect either.
The legal route is costly and difficult. Even if you are successful in court - the chances of getting your money even with a court order are slim.
This is why I will not ever buy from a dealer again.
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
This is ridiculous........ the dealer has sold a dangerous horse to this person & you expect that person to stand the financial loss & not return the horse as you believe they will be responsible for what the dealer does with the returned horse & will be responsible for any injury the horse may cause in the future??? .......this is ridiculous!!!

The horse needs to go back & you need to get your money back. Take legal action if you need to. Don't ride the horse again & quite frankly ignore Always Henesy, you will be in no way responsible for what the dealer does with the horse in the future!!

AH says to have the horse pts, no, it is up to the dealer to do that after they have refunded you. You should not be out of pocket because of this.
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Hear, hear.
 
Surely it is too soon to talk of putting this horse to sleep?

He has, at the moment, known history of rearing with only one rider, and a relatively inexperienced one in the whole scheme of things. It's not difficult to get into a doom loop of loss of confidence between rider and horse and irrespective of what physical or mental difficulties this horse has, that seems to have happened here.

OP can you send the horse to a really experienced horseman who takes on remedial work, to see if he can be sorted out? Then you will know if you can sell him with a clear conscience or not. He's obviously not the horse for you, but it does not mean that he needs to die.

I too don't hold out much hope that the dealer will do any more for you than offer to sell him as an agent on commission for you after this length of time, but you can always try.

I hope you find a lovely happy hacker.
 
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springtime13 said:
I would have also thought they'd be a time frame for returning to the dealer - 2 months + seems quite a long time. The dealer could easily argue that the problem is more recent one.
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This. In answer to your OP, yes you could blood test but be aware that not everything shows up, something as simple as withholding water can quieten a horse down.

I would definitely try to speak to the old owner if you can, but be aware you may not get the whole truth - there is no way a horse competing successfully at BYEH as a 5 year old should end up at a dealer's a few months later for a 'cheap' price.

PM me the dealer's name if you want and I will see if anything rings a bell. Would also be interested in checking his BE record/rider if you want to pm me his passport name.
 
springtime13 said:
I would have also thought they'd be a time frame for returning to the dealer - 2 months + seems quite a long time. The dealer could easily argue that the problem is more recent one.
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Exactly this ^^^^

I had a similar situation to the OP.

Trust me the outcome was not good. I lost a great deal of money....and still ended up with a dead horse. It took me 2 1/2 years to recover financially.
I was not and am still not in a position to throw money away. However, by purchasing from a dealer - that is exactly what I did.
OP - I feel very bad for you and I feel very bad for the horse. None of this is your fault or the fault of the horse. It is a truly horrendous situation.
 
AH you didn't lose the money the horse cost you because you bought from a dealer, you lost it because you bought a bad horse, which could have happened just as easily from a private seller. There are good dealers around, and this dealer might well have taken the horse back at a month, but this long, having been going well, then it seems unlikely unless it's a very good dealer indeed. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.
 
cptrayes said:
Surely it is too soon to talk of putting this horse to sleep?

He has, at the moment, history of rearing with only one rider, and a relatively inexperienced one in the whole scheme of things. It's not difficult to get into a doom loop of loss of confidence between rider and horse and irrespective of what physical or mental difficulties this horse has, that seems to have happened here.

OP can you send the horse to a really experienced horseman who takes on remedial work, to see if he can be sorted out? Then you will know if you can sell him with a clear conscience or not. He's obviously not the horse for you, but it does not mean that he needs to die.

I too don't hold out much hope that the dealer will do any more for you than offer to sell him as an agent on commission for you after this length of time.

I hope you find a lovely happy hacker.
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I aggree that after this long selling as an agent is likely to be OP's way out of
this and Op can make sure she speaks to the purchaser so she knows the new owner knows what's what.
It's a fair way out for OP and the horse ,the horse is young and in the wrong home although I fear there may be a story behind how he ended up at the dealers being sold but he may just need a different set of circumstances to excel.
 
springtime13 said:
I would have also thought they'd be a time frame for returning to the dealer - 2 months + seems quite a long time. The dealer could easily argue that the problem is more recent one.
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Goldenstar said:
I aggree that after this long selling as an agent is likely to be OP's way out of
this and Op can make sure she speaks to the purchaser so she knows the new owner knows what's what.
It's a fair way out for OP and the horse ,the horse is young and in the wrong home although I fear there may be a story behind how he ended up at the dealers being sold but he may just need a different set of circumstances to excel.
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Going to an experienced rider for schooling and then selling is a good idea. I agree that any potential purchasers must be made aware that he has reared.
 
cptrayes said:
AH you didn't lose the money the horse cost you because you bought from a dealer, you lost it because you bought a bad horse, which could have happened just as easily from a private seller. There are good dealers around, and this dealer might well have taken the horse back at a month, but this long, having been going well, then it seems unlikely unless it's a very good dealer indeed. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.
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The dealer had lied to me about the horse and it's history (I found out by tracing previous owners), it was notoriously dangerous and had put one previous owner in hospital (reared over backwards) and had an old pelvic injury (the dealer knew all of this) Stupidly the vet who vetted the mare was the dealers vet....need I go on?
It tried to kill me several times (definitely pain and phsycological issues). Whilst investigating the old pelvic damage (she should never have been ridden) my vet also found a tumour on her ovaries and she was pts. After vet fees, physio, saddler and buying her in the first place I was left around £6,000 out of pocket.
 
Quote AH "The OP can make her own mind up. My advice was to the OP - not you."

Exactly, as was my advice.

Quote AH "May be because I care about others".......... & obviously I don't?, that's why I don't want the OP to lose out massively financially in this situation which is none of her making I don't want her to injure herself either which will surely happen.

OP, you may have left taking action against the seller too long, but you need to take legal advice regarding this. The time frame can be explained by all the remedial actions you have taken to try & get the horse right but only a solicitor will be able to advise you regarding this.

You have tried many things to sort this horse out & you are now putting yourself in danger. The horse has gone over on you & it is not an isolated incident. Please don't ride him again, it's not worth it.

Oh...... & thank you Ditch Jumper for your comment! ;)
 
Not read all the replies so dont shoot me but did he flip himself over or did you both loose balance? If its the second one, no shame in that but its a totally different scenario when the rider causes the fall than if a horse flips itself over.
 
I haven't read all the replies but you say you are waiting for the saddle fitter in a few weeks. Please don't get on the horse again until this has happened but don't rule out that it could be a saddle problem, especially if he has improved in condition since you bought him. I hope you manage to find a solution but if not then definitely go back to the dealer and go down the legal route if necessary.
 
To add, my oh bought his first horse from a pro event rider. The horse stood up at every opportunity. He went over twice, not because he meant to but simply because at the time my oh didn't have the reaction quick enough to stop both him and the horse loosing balance. We left it too long to return the horse so we decided to try and work him through it. I spent months long reining and lunging him. He came right in the end, had a successful competition career and is now a hack for a sixty yr old lady.
 
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