new horse turns out to be a rearer-advice please

Please, please send the horse back to the dealer. What he does with it is NOT your responsibility. I bought a rearer once & she was back with the dealer in a week. She had missed her calling & would have looked great in a blockbuster film, stunning in her rearing but dangerous. You have only one life don't take the risk of ending it or being in a wheelchair for the rest of it, it can happen. Please don't risk it. The horse may have problems causing this but it is NOT down to you to sort it out. There are lovely horses out there & one is waiting for you.
 
I hope that you are okay and just wanted to say please do not get back on that horse...with an instructor or whether it has had its back checked, dont do it to yourself.
I was always taught from a young age that for a horse to go up and over backwards was the most dangerous thing they could do...it shows a complete breakdown of the horses natural instincts and reasoning. It has no regard for itself, let alone you, to flip itself over like that.
Whilst it is not right that a dealer has sold you a horse that quite clearly has a behaviour in-built of rearing, I would not want to hand it back and have it passed to someone else under false pretenses. The decision that I would make is to pts as this horse has no use to anyone who wants to ride it...even if there are 'issues' that you can help, like backs, saddles etc. It has proven on more than one occasion that it is not safe or imo, sane.
Take care.
 
Personally I would ring the dealer and try to contact old owner.

Bad dealers rely on people not returning horses like this so they can continue ripping people off. It happened to me.

You bought the horse in good faith and trusted what you were told. Why should you loose your money because you were lied to.

Good luck.
 
This is ridiculous........ the dealer has sold a dangerous horse to this person & you expect that person to stand the financial loss & not return the horse as you believe they will be responsible for what the dealer does with the returned horse & will be responsible for any injury the horse may cause in the future??? .......this is ridiculous!!!

The horse needs to go back & you need to get your money back. Take legal action if you need to. Don't ride the horse again & quite frankly ignore Always Henesy, you will be in no way responsible for what the dealer does with the horse in the future!!

AH says to have the horse pts, no, it is up to the dealer to do that after they have refunded you. You should not be out of pocket because of this.
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Agree with al of this. Having always bought mine from reputable dealers at home and abroad and i have exchanged/sent back when they aren't stuiable or it is time for a new one. The one time i bought off a so called "private" seller, the horse was a liability. He reared for fun. He passed a full 5 stage vetting, he cost well into 5 figures, had competed and won an awful lot show jumping and was a class horse, as was pointed out by a lot of people in the know. He also liked to go over backwards for fun. I had every test done, all tack changed, bloods run, and nothing came up. The seller knew he did this, he also knew the only way to keep the horses legs on the floor was pure brute force. That is all the horse had known,. he refused to have him back, advised me to tie its head down whilst in the stable and work him hard. I couldn't do that, fortunately for me i was able to sell him onto someone who was aware of this lovely rearing habit and who could ride him in the fashion that worked. He went on to win thousands and all i could say is good luck to them. There was no way i was going to ride that horse without him doing me some serious damage. This horse was used to being ridden by big strong men, not a small girl and he took full advantage of that situation. The lesson i learnt was never buy off a private person, and never buy one that has been started and competed by men only!

I hope you get some joy with yours OP and if i was you i would be sending him back to the dealer and getting my money back at the very least. Rearers are dangerous and not something i would ever wish to sit on again.
 
I'd be putting him straight back to the dealer, that's the reason I buy from dealers as you have come back. What the dealer then does with him is not your problem, go get your money back and if he refuses create stink till he does.
 
Tough one... firstly I would approach the dealer to see what they say, and get in contact with the pro that rode it at BEYH.

However, with regards to legal action, tbh, I wouldnt really bother if the pro is happy the horse never reared with them - it will cost £££'s, and be nothing but stress. (Have seen the effects of court cases on family members (not criminal ones btw!))

Is the horse insured? May be worth getting a full workup done to see if there is anything wrong with him.
 
Define a while ago ? I think depending on your answer the dealer might just say the issue has developed with you.
If you are talking days, or a week or so, you can try to get your money back, but my experience is that they'll trade you something else for it, and usually at a much lesser price than you paid.
If you can, speak to the previous owner and ask if he did it with them, then at least you are armed with the information he did it before, and was sold on to you by the dealer possibly with this knowledge, that is assuming he did this with the previous owner, and that it was disclosed to the dealer.
If youve had the horse for a few months, i cant see the dealer giving you your money back, as i do think youve left it a bit long to say he doesnt suit you but they may still trade the horse for something else.
 
I strongly advise you to trace the previous owner as dealers also are good at the part exchange thing/ taking horses in part exchange or taking them back as a part exchange when you have bought them. You really need to know the horses past.
 
Think I've read most of the replies now.

Do we not buy horses knowing we risk them being an instant loss along with the chance that things may have been hidden, or things could easily go wrong and have nothing to do with the seller?

4 months is a long time to then be able to send a horse back to a dealer. Not to mention that there's a good chance the horse may never have reared in previous homes and the dealer could innocently say the problem has developed with new owner, yet still be accused unknowingly?

There's no quick fix to this, things are going to have to be thought out carefully, but for a second, let’s just take on board that the dealer could be innocent here, not to mention it won’t be easy to send the horse back anyway…
 
I think as others have said please don't ride the horse again. The only course of action I can see may help would be to talk to previous owner/rider and turn the horse away meanwhile and plan to get to the bottom of the problem.
I had a similar situation - I was conned with a horse that passed a 5 stage vetting, but was certainly doped. Long story short - I felt for the horse in the end so did not try to return him. I used alternative methods to diagnose mine as he was so aggressive and dangerous (iridology, communication and a shiatsu therapist) - all 3 said injury/pain right upper hind. I got him referred to Newmarket and Sue Dyson diagnosed chronic Sacro Illiac dysfunction - my horse was in chronic pain and likely had been since he was 2 !!!
Good news is he was rehabed via a holistic vet - turned away for nearly a year and is now sound and coming back into work slowly and successfully.

There can be light at the end of the tunnel - it depends on your drive and determination, but please don't risk your health :)
 
The first thing I would say is that this horse is not the horse for you. If you completley lose your confidence it may take a long time to come back.
The biggest problem is what to do with it.
In theory you have more protection if you buy from a dealer, as you are protected by the Sale of Goods Act, but in practise it's not that clear cut. For example, can you PROVE that the horse reared prior to purchase; are you able to PROVE the info you were given by the dealer prior to purchase. You need a good equine solicitor and you may be able to get this free if you are a BHS gold member or you may be covered on your horse insurance policy or even your household insurance.
As for returning the horse to the dealer, do you know he will have it back?
If you do have a case in court it will take months and you may not get the result you had hoped for in the end so it may be better to cut your losses now.
Please do not pass the horse on to anyone else without being entirely honest. I think if I were you I would try a really proffessional yard for some schooling and if it does not improve have it PTS, sooner rather than later. Whatever happens you are likely to lose money, but most of us have been there at some time or other.
 
I am probably reiterating what others have said.

Horse may not have reared in it's life before it arrived with OP. It would be worth trying to find out from previous rider.

It had saddle issues, teeth issues, was ridden by 2 different riders, has had manipulation by a practitioner without (it seems) vet consent? vet hasn't been called as far as I can tell.

As far as we all know the dealer may have sold a lovely young horse in good faith.

On the other hand horse could be a confirmed flipper (which would need shooting IMO) or a nappy so and so which responded well with a professional, and is now royally taking the mickey with less experienced riders.

We don't know, so can't see how anyone can be insisting on any course of action tbh.

I would want to know why it is rearing & if it has reared before. If your RI was too scared to ride horse after a week and lunged it only, then why was a younger less experienced person allowed to then ride it? also really - get a vet!!
 
Polos said:
He has only just had his back seen by an osteopath (last wednesday) haven't thought of lameness (doesn't look unsound when trotted up) or ulcers.


I suppose its worth a try to see what she says.
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We had a horse here for three years that used to rear and fall over backwards. My hubby banned me from riding her. Had the vet several times and nothing was found. Not lame or anything. Then she started to lose her back end occasionally when being lunged or ridden on a circle. Vet came out again and found bilateral hindleg lameness on flexion. Eventually she was diagnosed with upper suspensory desmitis and was operated on. She has never reared since.

However, I would echo what others have said. No way would I pass such a horse on. I would do full medical investigations (probably have a bone scan done) and if nothing wrong was found, would either retire as a field ornament or PTS. From listening to what you say, your horse is extremely dangerous and I would not get back on board.
 
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Get rid.

Sometimes a youngster might rear, lose balance, scare itself and never do it again.
But if they keep doing it, and it's just the sudden flip over, it's so dangerous.

A horse who isn't worried about his own self preservation certainly isn't worried about you.

If it was mine, I certainly wouldn't be wasting money on lameness work ups etc. Itd just be down the road so fast it's head would spin.

IMHO there's no need for you to be a martyr here.

Usually with a behavioural problem, in your situation I would give it to a professional as a seller.....bit thinking on it tbh I couldn't, with s clear conscience, let someone get on a horse that I knew flipped itself over.

I don't know where you go from here.......only you know the horse and have experienced what it does etc.

How big/what build is he? Blood bank maybe?
What has the dealer said?

Unfortunately there are very few homes for dangerous unrideable horses......which makes the pts option, while sad, not out of the question
 
Always Henesy said:
I will thank you to keep the tone of your post slightly less aggressive...the OP is well within her rights to ignore me. The OP has asked for advice regarding her rearing horse. I have given my advice and she is perfectly entitled to ignore it.

The dealer is unlikely to give her the money back - have you any experience of dealers at all? Legal action is a possibility, but costly and to what end?
Do you seriously think the dealer would do the right thing by the horse if they did give her the money back?

If I was the OP I would not have the potential death or serious injury of another human being on my conscience if the horse were to go back to the dealer. But maybe that is because I care about others.
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I completely agree with this! If everyone thought this way then there would be far fewer dangerous horses being sold to unsuspecting people. It may be the dealer's fault, but even if I was out of pocket I would never risk sending a dangerous horse back, knowing there would be a very good chance of it being sold on again and possibly killing someone.
 
Im with the "dont get on it again brigade". I had same situation 4 years ago, bought a happy hacker from a dealer, within 2 weeks she had started to go vertical every time she didnt want to do something, coupled with that she was a very bad tempered, nasty piece of work, not the "kind, easy family horse" according to her advert! I kept in contact with the dealer via email from the start of her antics, so had everything on record so to speak. After 6 weeks I asked her to take the mare back for a refund, not an exchange. She eventually agreed to take her back and refund me 75% of the original sales price. Having heard some real horror stories I accepted this offer. Tbh, I have no idea what happened to the mare afterwards. I bought from a dealer believing I would have more comeback if anything went wrong, I was partly right, and I always felt that the blame/guilt, whatever for the sale of the horse lay with the dealer, not me. I am not the professional sales person here, I believed what I was told about the horse and dont think I should be the one out of pocket because the horse was "not as described". After all if you go to a garage to buy a sports car and they deliver you a tractor, you would expect a refund surely!! I would say though that quite a long time has lapsed so you may struggle to insist on a refund, maybe trying to work with the dealer to effect a good outcome is a better option, "horse is not for me, this is why, can you part ex for something more suitable" kind of thing. Be honest with them about the horse and then it is up to their conscience what they do with him afterwards.
 
I do feel for you Polos as I'm in almost the exact same situation - only difference is that my new horse hasn't gone right over (thank god) but he is very good at rearing. My dealer is pretending to be a private seller and young and naieve at this point so it's court action for me, I'm currently trying to trace previous owner and he is being ridden by an eventer next week to determine next steps. I'm not going to sell him on without full disclosure as that's what the little bitch that sold him to me did to me. Made my blood run cold when a family I know who tried him and liked him too (they were happily too slow to offer) said that the dealer had let them put their 10 year old daughter on him. If I saw my dealer at a show or in the street I would just drop her no words just one powerful punch should do:mad: and I'm not normally given to violence but for her I will make an exception and enjoy it too.
 
I returned a horse back to a reputable dealer after 2 months of owning him. He wasn't dangerous just not the horse for me. Needless to say I took a big loss as he wouldn't give me all my money back. If you do return the horse you would have given your reasons why. If the dealer then sells the horse on without disclosing the horse has reared in the past, then he is the one responsible for injuries sustained by the horse. Your conscience should be clear, just send him back and stay safe.
 
Some horses will be nappy, slow down, stop, threaten to rear, and then go up, but just to flip right over with no warning is bad. Do not ride again. (Saw this on TV once with a racehorse).
It may be possible to find an answer, but you bought it from a professional for a job, and presumably paid the right sort of money for it and it was sold to you with no problems. Actually rearing is a vice, I only hope you are able to return it and get some money back.

What happens then is up to the dealer. I know dealers who do try to get to the bottom of problems - will turn a horse out for 12 months and then bring it slowly back into work.

What a shame for you, hope you can resolve this OK.
 
Strikes me that this could be quite a good money spinner for unscrupulous dealers - sell horse with prob, agree to take it back but only offer a partial refund (money for nothing!), resell horse for original money, with another potential cycle or return, partial refund etc! I'd like to thinkt hat word would get round pretty quick and that it would be a rare dealer that would be so unscrupulous!
I bought a mare from a dealer many years ago who started to rear for no obvious reason - dealer took her back to see if prob occured for them too which of course they said it didn't. I ended up having to have the mare back. She only reared occasionally in summer so vet thought it was related to her being in season but Regumate didn't help. Never did get to the bottom of the problem and eventually sold her for far less than I paid for her to an experienced owner who was prepared to work on her issue
 
Toby_Zaphod said:
This is ridiculous........ the dealer has sold a dangerous horse to this person & you expect that person to stand the financial loss & not return the horse as you believe they will be responsible for what the dealer does with the returned horse & will be responsible for any injury the horse may cause in the future??? .......this is ridiculous!!!

The horse needs to go back & you need to get your money back. Take legal action if you need to. Don't ride the horse again & quite frankly ignore Always Henesy, you will be in no way responsible for what the dealer does with the horse in the future!!

AH says to have the horse pts, no, it is up to the dealer to do that after they have refunded you. You should not be out of pocket because of this.
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Agree with this! OP bought the horse in good conscience and basically dealer has sold her a horse which is dangerous, possibly knowingly so.

Yes very tempting to have horse PTS; BUT no-one is made of money and OP has a horse which she cannot sell on or loan, or do anything which, and whether she rides it or not will cost her a fortune as she'll have to keep it.

If dealer(s) get difficult then go to Trading Standards and/or solicitor. If you feed in "Quarrystone stud" on the archives on HHO here, if my memory serves me correct there's something in there about a horse they sold which then threw someone - and the buyer successfully took them to the cleaners......... so worth a look mebbe OP? So sorry for you in all this, you sound like you just need a nice horse you can do stuff with and have got all this worry and hassle. I feel for you.
 
Always Henesy said:
I have yet to find a dealer that would happily give you a refund after 2 months+ of ownership.
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Why on earth should they?

Two months is plenty of time for a rider who is unsuited to a horse to completely ruin its behaviour. I am not suggesting that the original poster did that, but if the horse was actually fine when the dealer sold it, how on earth is he to make a business if he has to keep taking horses back and reschooling them to sell them again.

Remember that this horse has been going fine after initial teething troubles and that as far as he knew the horse was doing really well with the new owner.
 
Very tough for you. My reation would be to inform dealer of issue & state you want full refund asap as the longer you leave it the more you will loose on the horse & find it harder to get refund from dealer. If they start to be funny then get advice from trading standards.

Please don't get on horse in mean time, your life is too valuable. Be careful about trying too much to fix problem (& don't see how lunging behind vertical can do anything but harm), in case you get accused of causing it. Keep records of all treatment, & try to claim that from dealer as well. If he sees you want more than original value (costs incurred through taking every reasonable avenue to make sure horse was healthy & fit for purpose), then you may get your purchase price back. Most of all, go get some professional advice (CAB if you have no access to legal advice line) as you can be sure dealer knows the letter of the law (after all it's their job & they wil have had people try to return before no matter how good dealer), so you need to know if they aren't being entirely truthful about your position.
 
Orangehorse said:
Actually rearing is a vice
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Not in any legal sense. Legally declarable vices are limited to windsucking, box walking and weaving, crib biting only if associated with windsucking (biting wood is not a vice). There is no obligation on a seller to say anything about a horse which rears unless they are asked whether it does.
 
Can people please remember that at the moment there is no evidence whatsoever that this horse had ever reared before this person bought it? This may be a perfectly decent dealer you are all ritually slaughtering here.

OP I think you need to contact the previous owner if you are to insist that the dealer takes this horse back with any success.
 
Most of the time dealers don't keep the horse long enough to find out what the horse does. My returned horse was re-sold to another dealer who advertised him as the perfect horse. He wasn't he didn't hack out very well for a start. Dealers don't own the horses long enough to truly know what the horse is like.
 
Lots of people are advising to "get rid"....but unless the dealer will take the horse back I don't understand how. This horse obviously can't be passed on to anyone, and if the dealer has sold it once, then they will probably try again, putting someone else in danger. Is there part of a trade description act that covers this sort of thing?
 
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It's quite possible that this is just a sensitive competition horse with neck pain. As for rearing with no warning, there is always a warning but some horses give more obvious signals than others.

This clearly isn't the horse for you OP, I would give the dealer a call and see if they will buy him back.
 
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