new horse turns out to be a rearer-advice please

Not intending to tar all with same brush, I appreciate there as many good honest dealers as bad ones. That's where reputation comes into play.

Can say there was one at yard I was at. Firstly he'd lost his yard, came to ours as livery & when clients arrived passed yard off as his & even made out real owner was his groom. Second, he didn't even know the name of the horses he was selling, just made one up if asked. He did ride everything, have to say he had excellent seat (saw him chatting on phone whilst horse reared vertically). Third, the clients I spoke to often ended up buying horse as they felt so sorry for it. Dealer didn't give two hoots as long as he got some cash. Do know one client tried to get refund, he used the 'you must have caused the problem he was fine here' line with her, in reality horse was known to be psycho on yard. Horses were cold cash to him, no more, didn't care what he said. When he had his own yard he used to ship a load in from his depot on the saturday, chuck his liveries out in the fields, put sale horses in their stables for clients to come round & view. Sunday afternoon sale horses were shipped back to his holding yard. Everything was smoke & mirrors. Thankfully he no longer trades horses, but now he sells cars.
 
cptrayes said:
Why on earth should they?

Two months is plenty of time for a rider who is unsuited to a horse to completely ruin its behaviour. I am not suggesting that the original poster did that, but if the horse was actually fine when the dealer sold it, how on earth is he to make a business if he has to keep taking horses back and reschooling them to sell them again.

Remember that this horse has been going fine after initial teething troubles and that as far as he knew the horse was doing really well with the new owner.
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Exactly! 2 months + is a long time to leave it if you are hoping that the dealer will take it back. That has been my point - regardless of whether the dealer knowingly sold this horse with issues or not.

My other point all a long has been that whatever the circumstances - you can't just pass on a horse that is potentially very dangerous to someone else.
Unless that person is fully aware of what they are taking on.
Does the OP want to finance sending this horse to someone professional to work on? Does the OP want to try and sell the horse whilst being totally honest about it's rearing habit? How many people would willingly buy a horse that has reared over backwards with it's rider with no warning?
However you look at this - the OP is going to suffer the financial loss with whatever option she chooses. My honest opinion in all of this is that the horse should be pts and the OP should learn from the experience and move on.
There are many many lovely horses without this nasty and dangerous habit.

This happened to me! I was crippled financially and left without a horse, but I had to brush myself off, save money all over again and get another horse.
 
MiJodsR2BlinkinTite said:
Agree with this! OP bought the horse in good conscience and basically dealer has sold her a horse which is dangerous, possibly knowingly so.

Yes very tempting to have horse PTS; BUT no-one is made of money and OP has a horse which she cannot sell on or loan, or do anything which, and whether she rides it or not will cost her a fortune as she'll have to keep it.

If dealer(s) get difficult then go to Trading Standards and/or solicitor. If you feed in "Quarrystone stud" on the archives on HHO here, if my memory serves me correct there's something in there about a horse they sold which then threw someone - and the buyer successfully took them to the cleaners......... so worth a look mebbe OP? So sorry for you in all this, you sound like you just need a nice horse you can do stuff with and have got all this worry and hassle. I feel for you.
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Please read all of my posts carefull before you agree with slating my opinion.
This horse has been with the OP over 2 months! I have merely been pointing out the possible and highly likely issues the OP will have in trying to return it to the dealer.
This dreadful senario has happened to many of us and the same ole adage "buyers beware" has come back to bite many of us on the proverbial.

All of us agree that the OP is in a horrid and sad situation - but the only outcome here will involve financial loss and heartbreak.
 
I wouldn't be allowing anyone to ride the horse either right now. Make enquiries about returning it to the dealer (but I wouldn't hold out much hope I'm afraid) but absolutely speak either to the event rider or someone local to them who might have known the animal from events, showjumping. Bear in mind that if it was halfway decent with nothing wrong then the event rider would likely have sold it on himself privately. Passing/selling to a dealer smacks of out of sight, out of mind unfortunately, and many people, amateur and professional are not interested in the animal, just the money to be made out of it.
 
Always Henesy said:
Does the OP want to try and sell the horse whilst being totally honest about it's rearing habit? How many people would willingly buy a horse that has reared over backwards with it's rider with no warning?
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I would, if it were cheap enough. But as the dealer knows the horse they would probably be more likely to take it back. Or the person who produced it for BYEH.
 
i cant imagine a dealer taking it back after 2 months as this is more than enough time for a horse to be "ruined" not saying this is the case but i have experienced someone doing this ! get bloods run to rule out doping etc if bloods clear i say its something thats changed. have u had back checked? saddle fitted professionally? any other changes in the way hes kept?
 
hope the OP is ok, this thread seems to have been turned into a bit of a slanging match in places, i feel the the OP was only young and could have done with a bit more sympathetically put advise in places.

OP its ok you cant save them all and neither can you be responsible for them, i understand over 2 months is a long in which you get attached but the horse does sound dangerous and your safety is more important than whether you get back on this horse.

be careful and keep safe
 
The dealer took mine back after 2 months so maybe yours will too. But expect to get less than you paid. Some say horses are unsettled when they first move and should be given time to settle, mine was the opposite he became more unpredictable the longer I had him.
 
Always Henesy said:
My honest opinion in all of this is that the horse should be pts
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You would put a horse to sleep because it has history of rearing with one relatively inexperienced owner?

If we did that to every horse that has reared badly, then a good proportion of perfectly decent horses now being ridden by people of all levels of experience would also have been killed.
 
cptrayes said:
You would put a horse to sleep because it has history of rearing with one relatively inexperienced owner?

If we did that to every horse that has reared badly, then a good proportion of perfectly decent horses now being ridden by people of all levels of experience would also have been killed.
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If a horse reared over backwards onto me (provided that I lived to tell the tale) and all potential medical issues had been ruled out then yes I would pts without question. I have 3 children to provide for and I owe it to them to stay alive.
 
Hi, Have not read all previous posts, so sorry if i am repeating whats already been said. It sounds to me that you have been very sensible and already come to the conclusion that this horse is not for you. If the horse has been produced by a professional, and obviously is capable of doing well as a competition horse, I would personally send him away to a proffesional competition yard to be re-schooled and sold. Make sure you are completely honest with them about the rearing, so they are fully prepared for what the horse may throw at them. Proffesionals have all the facilities, manpower, time and ability to deal with this type of problem in a horse, and he will probably go on to be a very succesful competition horse (querky ones usually do lol!) Please don't feel that you have failed in any way with this horse. Your safety is far more important, and I am sure you will find a suitable horse to have fun without worrying you are going to end up underneath it! Good luck x
 
Hi if the horse worries you then you need to get rid. If however you want to keep him then i would put the effort in. My friends tb was a rearer. She turned him away for a year to let him be a horse (ex racer and the teenager than owned him before wanted to jump everyday and he finally had enough and reared her off all the time). When she was ready they started parelli natural horsemanship and he hasnt put a foot wrong in the last 2 years. They have a better understanding of each other now and he is such a lovely horse. Parelli us not for everyone and some people think it is a load of rubbish but thats up to them. Ive seen this horse turn many corners and at one point she was going to sell him as he worried her. The horse is 17 now btw so old enough to know better.

I hope you make the right decision for you both. Lets us know what happens
 
I think you have 2 or 3 choices here.

Firstly contact the dealer and inform them of the issues, see if they will take horse back.

In the meantime, contact a Solicitor and/or Trading Standards and see where you stand as to your legal rights for return of the horse to the dealer.

If you decide that you don't want to return the horse to the dealer, I'd take the horse to the vet for a work-up.

I would not have a therapist of any sort attempting to treat my the horse when they don't really know what is wrong with it.

I had 2 types of 'therapist' come out to treat a pony with gait/lateral bend problems. Neither could feel/find anything wrong and gave my pony a massage/treatment..... nothing helped, a Bone Scan identified KS and SI injury. You need to get to the bottom of this if you're going to consider riding the horse again.
 
The bit that popped up for me is that an osteo has been working on him but there is no mention of a Vet having seen him. Someone on our yard had a rearer - she had been gradually getting worse over a very long period until she got really, really bad. Firstly she was diagnosed with ulcers, then when she continued getting worse was sent to Rossdales & was diagnosed with a leg/back issues. Now she has been treated her behaviour is much better -though she is still far from a novice ride. She had been having a back person out every 3 months for as long she had had the horse.
 
Polos just wanted to say this sort of thing has happened to lots of us it happened to be with a horse my parents bought for me when I was fifteen , he never became reliable he too was young five or six now a days I am sure he would have turned out to have kissing spines but that's over thirty years ago one and vet care has advanced a lot.
I wish you luck whatever you decide to do .
 
Always Henesy said:
If a horse reared over backwards onto me (provided that I lived to tell the tale) and all potential medical issues had been ruled out then yes I would pts without question. I have 3 children to provide for and I owe it to them to stay alive.
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That's the whole point AH

NO potential issues have yet been ruled out with this horse. He hasn't even been seen by a vet or been sent to a professional used to dealing with sharp horses for assessment.
 
cptrayes said:
That's the whole point AH

NO potential issues have yet been ruled out with this horse. He hasn't even been seen by a vet or been sent to a professional used to dealing with sharp horses for assessment.
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Exactly , I am sure that Polos should not get back on this horse but until he's had a proper veterinary assessment and been assesed by a pro after that if thats apporiate it's way premature to talk about PTS for a horse non of us have ever seen or seen Polos on.
Polos needs to stay safe and decide with her family how they go forward with the horse.
It will cost a fait bit to do all this returning the horse to the dealer to sell making sure that all potential buyers speak to Polos before buying may be the best way forward.
 
Polos said:
A while ago I posted about my new horse rearing me off, well things got better for a while he was working really nicely in the school until he started to go funny again (bouncing and headshaking) I called the dentist and he sorted his teeth out and the osteopath who found some tightness in his neck but he 'manipulated' his neck and gave us an exercise programme which we have been sticking to, saddler is booked for a couple of weeks time. Tonight I decided to go for a hack (he has been hacking twice with me at the yard before- one in company and one by himself) and my mum walked with me on foot. We got halfway round our route before he started acting up (bouncing, headshaking and spooking) I put my leg and managed to ride him through it so we carried on (we where on our way back at this point) and we where almost home, I could see the yard and he just went straight up and over, it was so quick I had no time to react or grab the neckstrap, he just went straight over and landed on me. He wacked his head pretty hard on a gate on the way down and scraped a fair bit of fur off his face.

I just don't know what to do about this, he just goes straight up without any warning, I have owned him for about 2 months now and he has reared so many times I have lost count.

He goes out for 8 hours a day, he is only fed a handfull of hi-fi twice a day and haylage and he does some sort of exercise everyday.

My mum says he has to go and tbh I agree with her, we are going to ring up the dealers in the next few days but we don't know wether to get the bloods tested first, any advice?
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My mare is quite the one for going up and over. Shes done it countless times in the 5 years ive owned her, under saddle and randomly when standing on the yard. Checked by a vet and physio and its just her way! She does it well and keeps her head safe and has never been injured!
 
badgermyers said:
My mare is quite the one for going up and over. Shes done it countless times in the 5 years ive owned her, under saddle and randomly when standing on the yard. Checked by a vet and physio and its just her way! She does it well and keeps her head safe and has never been injured!
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a horse that throws itself over randomly? I'm assuming the yard is hard surfaced..concrete?? and she throws herself onto it? I'd be mighty concerned...but thats just me..
 
TuscanBunnyGirl said:
a horse that throws itself over randomly? I'm assuming the yard is hard surfaced..concrete?? and she throws herself onto it? I'd be mighty concerned...but thats just me..
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yeah she does, sometimes its when she wont move forward other times its totally random! i dont tie her up often due to it, I taught her to stand on the yard untied.

I dont recommend having a horse like this unless you can deal with it. I have competed this horse to 1.10 with no issues. (bar her confidence jumping and being a tricky ride). I deal with her behaviour and do things to try and avoid the flipping.
 
hairycob said:
The bit that popped up for me is that an osteo has been working on him but there is no mention of a Vet having seen him. Someone on our yard had a rearer - she had been gradually getting worse over a very long period until she got really, really bad. Firstly she was diagnosed with ulcers, then when she continued getting worse was sent to Rossdales & was diagnosed with a leg/back issues. Now she has been treated her behaviour is much better -though she is still far from a novice ride. She had been having a back person out every 3 months for as long she had had the horse.
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This is exactly why I really rate holistic vets, who get to the root cause of any issue. My boy had ulcers - these were just a symptom of his SI dysfunction and pain. I cannot understand why a horse would need back treatment on such a regular basis if there was not an underlying issue.
 
And OP may well be back and it may help her make her desision she may be busy with that thing called real life that people have away from HHO , that's a shocking thought.
 
cptrayes said:
That's the whole point AH

NO potential issues have yet been ruled out with this horse. He hasn't even been seen by a vet or been sent to a professional used to dealing with sharp horses for assessment.
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Yes and I don't disagree with that point, but I got the impression that throwing a lot of money at a horse the OP feels isn't suitable wasn't a favourable option. Apologies if I am wrong.
I am concerned that a talented horse starting out eventing suddenly ended up in a dealers yard anyway. Makes you wonder if the original event rider knew there was a significant problem and it was the easiest option to get rid.
I am not on here to fall out with anyone, but these are my views.
 
I'm amazed and shocked at how cut and dry everyone is in voicing their opinions without knowing the horse and rider involved.

If I had told you lot about my horse's antics as a youngster (chronic rearer with no physical issues who went over twice once ridden once not due to losing her balance!) she would have been PTS. instead now she is a successful competition horse!

There are so many facts that we don't know. Did the horse flip or lose its balance. If it flipped then its a PTS job in my mind, if it lost its balance then it's worth perservering. Problem is OP is admittedly not very experienced and what felt to her to be a flipper could well not have been as it could have been her loss of balance that pulled the horse over. I'm not saying she did just she could have.

Next the reason for it rearing in the first place it could easily have kissing spines (common in ex racers particulary) it could have a serious neck issue it could have a mental issue or multiple other things including it could be using rearing as an avasion.

From what I've read the horse has never seen the vet not even now after going over despite the horse 'hitting its head hard'. The horse needs a work up for starters the poor thing probably has a good case of concussion going on!!

The OP also from the sounds has not spoken to the dealer at all. It is very likely it has never shown a rear prior to the OP's ownership so the dealer's actions will depend on the dealer. They may be exceptional and take it straight back (highly unlikely). They may want to have proof it was a pre-existing condition which is very hard to prove unless speaking to the rider who evented it as a 5yo will give a statement to say it reared with them (this is again making a massive presumption that it has previously reared). They may refuse to take it back full stop as it has been 2+ months since purchase. Simply we don't know as they haven't been asked. If they say no then yes legal action is a possible route BUT good luck you would need to show the dealer was dishonest and it was a pre-existing condition/behavioural issue and the only way you will do that is by getting statements from previous riders to say it reared AND that the dealer would have been aware of it doing so.


My personal course of action would be that the OP doesn't ride it as she clearly isn't confident enough to deal with a rearer and will most likely result in the rearing increasing, I would personally get the vet out first and foremost to check for physical issues including concussion. If that is all clear I would long rein it to see if it displays the same behaviour when worked without a rider (btw mine did ;) ) if it flips when long reined its a bullet one way or another as if it flips with no rider to unbalance it, it has no regard for its own or anyone elses safety and is effectively dangerous. If it doesn't flip there is hope and presuming the saddle fits I would bring in someone confident riding rearers to assess it. I wouldn't use her instructor as from the OP's post they are not confident with rearers! Once it is assessed would go from there. I would also stop using the pessoa especially forcing the horse to be BTV, I would be questionning any professional that advised this as it results ni overbending the neck and verterbrea for extended periods which can cause muscle and ligament damage plus restricts the horse working correctly over its back. I would be concentrating on it working long and low over its back and neck. There are many different reasons for a horse rearing and the cause needs to be identified and elminated.

Ultimately though presuming no physical issue without a significant period of work from a confident rider the horse is not going to be suitable for the OP as a horse once a rearer is always a rearer in my experience. Mine for example may be reformed and now be my superstar but if she is put in certain situations she will still go up and this will never change but the key with her is she is never doing it to get me off and I know how to stop her normally before she has chance to even think about going up. So ultimately I would say the horse has to go just the question is where and that will very much depend on 1) a vets opinion and 2) if applicable a suitable rider's opinion and 3) the dealers opinion. The dealer needs to be given fair chance as well, I love how they has been written off as a scoundrel when they are probably not even aware there is a problem with the horse in the first place!!

OP good luck with the horse and I hope you can get to the root of the problem and ultimately the horse ends in a happy home with its' issues solved and you end up with a horse you can ride and enjoy which may or may not be this horse, and that also you do not end up out of pocket.

I know to take any posts on here with a very large pinch of salt but many do not, and it wouldn't surprise me if everyday people took advice on here as gospel when in reality it was completely wrong. I'm not saying my proposed course of action is the correct one but given the lack of facts I would like to think it was the most sensible! Rant over but please people stop being so judgemental without knowing all the facts!

P.s. rant doesn't apply to all posters as there has been some sense talked it is just heavily interspersed by overly judgemental comments!
 
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