New Horse with a diet issue...(kinda long)

PucciNPoni

PucciNPoni

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HI guys, am hoping you can help me!

First off, I'm getting a new loan horse on Saturday - and he ticks every box I could possibly have for a horse. He's absolutely fabulous! He's an 11yo Anglo Arab with a great history in the show ring and is going to do some showing with me, but more dressage and lots of hacking. He has been out of work for a year and has had a bit of a sad happening in which he was sold, lost tons of weight (hat rack style, seemingly - though I didn't see this) and then bought back... and has spent the last year just grazing and putting on weight. He's been a bit too successful at the weight gain tho - he's too fat now! However, he had been a bit mentally scarred by the starvation period and now is a bit food obsessed and will scream/weave if another horse is getting fed and he isn't. In the mornings this won't be a problem cos I'm up early and feed all at hte same time. In the evenings, everyone (other liveries) comes and goes at different times and feeds at different times.

So what I need now is obviously to get some exercise in to the wee man. We will do lots of walking/trotting hacks/hill work to start the metabolism going again. He will be on restricted grazing to start with (but I will not muzzle him) and I will keep him stabled either at night or during the day to further restrict the grazing. But where he has the food obsession, I don't want to deprive his *need* to eat but certainly don't want him overfed!

At the moment I believe he gets a scoop of coarse mix and hay or haylage. I would be inclined to maybe put him on a fibre based diet. I think that if I can occupy him at night with a treat ball with large chunky hay cubes inside it that it might distract him from the others getting fed, and keep him busy longer than just bucket feeding.

I'm well versed in the weighing/measuring of feeds and quanties to strip weight...but I'm looking for suggestions on WHAT to feed to help him recover his former waistline and help him build muscle again (though I do realise this will come from work rather than feed). Or if anyone has any ideas on coping with a food obsessed ermm...fatty....?

Thanks!
 
I would feed him Baileys Lo Cal balancer so he gets all his vitamins & minerals with some chaff (Dengie Lite or Good Doer). If feeding hay in the stable at night just soak it well so it has less nutrients.
 
My horse has been out on loan and she has just come back and is very over weight (amongst other things).... Shes gone on TopChop Lite and baileys stud balancer. She gets one cup of balancer in the morning and one in the evening with a stubbs scoop of topchop each time (fed wet).
 
I would recommend a good balancer as this will provide vits and mins and help build topline. I use Top spec. They do a "lite" version. Use this with Top spec Top Chop Lite. This only has an energy level of 7.5MDJE and is mollasses and preservative free. It therefore contains less sugar than hay. A cheaper alternative of this is Mollichaff High Fibre chaff. Dengie Good Doer is also good but contains a small amount of sugar.

Make sure you feed enough fibre so that your horse doesnt finish his feed too quickly and then stress because the others are still eating. The more occupied you can keep him the better. Some Hi Fi Cubes in a ball is a good idea. The worse thing you can do to a food obcessed horse is to restrict its food intake. Giving a big bucket of a low calorie chaff like Top Chop Lite is great for this as 1 scoop takes as long to eat as a section of hay (so they claim) but contains less calories and perhaps add a scoop of hi fi cubes to this?

http://www.topspec.com/TopChop-Comp.htm

I had to give my mare a hay replacer for a long time made up of chaff and hi fi cubes soaked. She never put any weight on whilst I was doing this. I used A&P Fast Fibre...its fab!

My pony was petrified of a stable and used to weave and box walk terribly. I bought a stable mirror and now she is happy as larry in her box with her best friend...her reflection lol

http://www.stable-mirrors.co.uk

Hope this helps x
 
Thanks guys -

SmartieBean think you hit it on the head with the not restricting his food (or at least so that HE knows it!).

I have a few thoughts on this: the treat ball as mentioned...the owner isn't sure if that will work with him as she's never used one. It will be worth a try though. However if he doesn't take to the treat ball, my other idea is to maybe keep an over-door manger thingy and a small bag of chaff near his stable so that if he does start to fret it's easy enough to just give him a handful of chaff in the bucket so he thinks he's getting fed too.

From what the owner tells me he is fine once you've fed him...but if some time has passed and he sees another bucket goes by he starts thinking it's feed time and will scream / weave til he gets some too. And if he gets worried and frets, and gets a handful of chaff, I don't want it to be something too calorific.

Oh, I forgot to say that part of my master plan too is that he is going on to shavings bed (was on straw at home, which he ate). Since I know he'll eat straw, which generally has fewer calories (or is it just sugar?) I might mix his hay with straw to reduce the calorie intake.
 
I have a few thoughts on this: the treat ball as mentioned...the owner isn't sure if that will work with him as she's never used one.
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I suspect that if he's that food obsessed he will be driven crazy by a treat ball. They are actually one of the worst inventions on the planet - and I wouldn't even try it personally.

And remember - the important thing is routine - not necessarily the amount of 'hard' food he thinks he's getting. Provided he has adlib hay - then you actually need to ween him off the demand for food. Obviously the more he's out the better. But I wonder if livery yard life is going to be difficult for him......
 
Don't forget that while he needs to lose weight, he is now going to be expected to work again so he will need fuel for that else he'll be running on empty and he won't be building muscle at all, just losing weight. When the obese hunters came in to start the season, they were still fed a 'proper' feed, not just chop, even if it was just cool cubes at first and hay plus limited turnout; they weren't allowed to go hungry, that wasn't the point, it was to slowly limit intake from a previous 24/7 grazing while building up muscle and lungs enabling them to work harder.
As long as he gets into his routine, I wouldn't let it worry me that he's shouting for food every time others get fed; he'll soon learn when it's his turn to shout. Have to say, it's one thing I hate about livery yards, that they're all fed at different times, it's very unfair although I know they do get used to it.
 
amymay said:
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I suspect that if he's that food obsessed he will be driven crazy by a treat ball. They are actually one of the worst inventions on the planet - and I wouldn't even try it personally.

And remember - the important thing is routine - not necessarily the amount of 'hard' food he thinks he's getting. Provided he has adlib hay - then you actually need to ween him off the demand for food. Obviously the more he's out the better. But I wonder if livery yard life is going to be difficult for him......
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You may be right about the treat ball NOT being for him, though I have to say it was a godsend for my mare while she was on box rest. She loved it and it certainly kept her occupied. Though she wasn't food obsessed.

I won't know if he will cope with a livery yard - but he's been in the past used to shows and stables at shows, and the comings and goings are something he rather likes. I do have the option of moving his stable to somewhere on the yard where he won't see as many horses so this shouldn't turn in to a huge issue. I just have to see what works in that respect....I'm flexible enough to do this. And yes, I do expect that he will learn MY routine too. :)
 
MFH9 said:
Don't forget that while he needs to lose weight, he is now going to be expected to work again so he will need fuel for that else he'll be running on empty and he won't be building muscle at all, just losing weight. When the obese hunters came in to start the season, they were still fed a 'proper' feed, not just chop, even if it was just cool cubes at first and hay plus limited turnout; they weren't allowed to go hungry, that wasn't the point, it was to slowly limit intake from a previous 24/7 grazing while building up muscle and lungs enabling them to work harder.
As long as he gets into his routine, I wouldn't let it worry me that he's shouting for food every time others get fed; he'll soon learn when it's his turn to shout. Have to say, it's one thing I hate about livery yards, that they're all fed at different times, it's very unfair although I know they do get used to it.
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That's a really good point. He's not fizzy and yet can be animated...so wonder if cutting the hard feed and just putting him on fiber might make him sluggish? I am trying to avoid him going hungry as I don't want to start with ulcers and an unhappy pony. I must admit that I haven't ever had issue with being on a livery yard in the five years that I've kept a horse in this country. I had always had horses "at home" in the US - but I have't got that luxury now....so...making due with what I've got. But as I said in the post above, I can work round this if necessary.
 
PucciNPoni said:
my other idea is to maybe keep an over-door manger thingy and a small bag of chaff near his stable so that if he does start to fret it's easy enough to just give him a handful of chaff in the bucket so he thinks he's getting fed too.
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I think this approach may actually make the situation worse! Basically, everytime he creates he will be rewarded with food - I suspect you could end up with him learning to make a fuss even when he doesn't see a bucket going past!

You need to make sure he gets enough hay - but this should be either soaked, mixed with straw or analysed to ensure it is a low calorie type, and fed through a small hole net to ensure it takes longer to eat. This is the most important factor in ensuring he doesn't feel hungry.

If he was mine he would only be getting a handful of HiFi Lite with a vit/min supplement added until he had got back to a condition score three. HiFi Lite is quite good for these sort of horses because it is quite boring and coarse, so takes longer to eat and they don't get quite so excited about it as they might with mix or sweeter, finer chaffs. Once he is back to a satisfactory weight then you can think about increasing/changing the feed if necessary.
 
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Thanks for the ideas everyone. It's given me lots to think about anyway and I'm sure I'll come to a happy medium for my new boy.
 
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