New loan horse dragging hind toes and feeling a bit weird behind!!

[Christmas Crumpet]

Got lovely new loan horse on Saturday - he's a ex racehorse who retired and went hunting. He's done nothing for about 6 months and has come to me to hunt and do bits and bobs. He is a rangy, leggy, fairly weak looking horse who is in his teens I think. I don't think he's ever done any schooling at all.

He is good as gold to ride, snaffle mouth etc etc so I am keen to give him a good trial as he's fab in all respects other than he drags his hind feet and does feel a bit weird behind in trot. He can turn to the left on a tight circle very well and steps under but struggles to the right. I've booked a physio appointment for her to have a look at him.

However not having had had an older ex racehorse before, could this simply be a weakness problem which could be resolved with exercises, proper riding/schooling, hill work etc? He picks up his hind legs very willingly and holds them up quite happily whilst they are picked out so I'm not that worried that he's got something awful wrong with him. Other horses that I've had with hock/back issues have struggled to pick their feet up/keep them up etc. If he is going to improve as he gets stronger again, I'll def. keep him.

Just wondered whether anyone has had a horse like this and whether they did improve and what they did to improve them?

 

[JanetGeorge]

It could be any one of at LEAST 100 things - or it might be nothing of any real significance. A GOOD physio is the best place to start. And my FIRST guess is that it is possibly hind gut ulcers - mention this to the physio - a good one will be able to 'feel' for symptoms but dragging a hind foot (particularly RH) and having 'trouble' flexing to the right are good clues. Unless your physio finds an obvious 'other' problem - or even if she does - it would be worth getting faeces tested for blood by your vet. Not too expensive - and conclusive 'proof'. But of course it might just be muscle weakness due to lack of fitness - don't be tempted to go for a full vet work-up in a hurry. Could cost a small fortune and not tell you much of importance.

 

[flying_high]

It could be any one of at LEAST 100 things - or it might be nothing of any real significance. A GOOD physio is the best place to start. And my FIRST guess is that it is possibly hind gut ulcers - mention this to the physio - a good one will be able to 'feel' for symptoms but dragging a hind foot (particularly RH) and having 'trouble' flexing to the right are good clues. Unless your physio finds an obvious 'other' problem - or even if she does - it would be worth getting faeces tested for blood by your vet. Not too expensive - and conclusive 'proof'. But of course it might just be muscle weakness due to lack of fitness - don't be tempted to go for a full vet work-up in a hurry. Could cost a small fortune and not tell you much of importance.

If it is hindgut ulcers, what method do you use to treat them? I cannot find a conclusive method recommended for treating hind gut ulcers. Thanks

 

[JanetGeorge]

If it is hindgut ulcers, what method do you use to treat them? I cannot find a conclusive method recommended for treating hind gut ulcers. Thanks

lol, only had one recently - or at least one I knew I had. She was a mare I knew (I bred and backed her prior to sale) and she came back after 2 years for me to 'sort out her problems and then get her sold' (owner had been bucked off, suffered a nasty injury and totally lost confidence). Bucking was her most 'obvious' symptom but she had others (cribbing, hted being touched anywhere from girth to hind-quarter on the right hand side, VERY slight lameness on RH.) She had already had hind gut ulcers 'found' and treated but the circumstances of her management & care meant they'd never been cleared. On what I knew she had been treated with previously (vet recommended) I decided to try Acid Ease (a recommendation from a 'knowing' horse friend.) Within 3 weeks symptoms have disappeared and she has now been tested clear. I have heard SOME others say Acid Ease didn't work for that horse - but treatment by mouth is only a part of overall treatment. Management is at least as important and that basically means as much turnout as possible (24/24 is perfect - but at LEAST 7 hours if at all possible) and NEVER being hungry. A horse with ulcers should only NOT have food in front of it if it is actually being ridden. And if it is ridden for more than 2 hours, then it should stop for at least 5 minutes of grass half way through. Now that's not 'conclusive', I'm afraid - just what makes sense an worked for the mare just fixed.

 

[Jellymoon]

A friend of mine has a big, rangey ex racer in his teens who I’m sure wouldn’t pass a vetting in a million years! He is a bit stiff, a bit wonky, drags his toes a little bit, but he is super. He hacks wonderfully, hunts, hunter trials, etc.
His flat work is ok, on big circles, but he would struggle with tight circles and struggles with show jumping. Given his age, build, and history she doesn’t bother trying to make him do the things he finds difficult, and had a LOT of fun hacking and jumping in straight lines. Is he happy and healthy? He’ll yes!
Depends what you want to do with this boy.
Oh, and my friend’s horse lives out 24/7 as his legs puff up if he stands in overnight. He’s better out moving around. However, his playground is about 10 acres, so no mud!

 

[flying_high]

I, a long time back had a loan horse that had been out of work for 18 months. She was 1/10 lame behind once adrenalin of new place had worn off. I let owners know, and agreed to keep bringing her back into work, and see if improved, with vet involved. It didn’t improve, but she was 16 and not bothered, just not sound on a circle in the school. I kept her about six months, (amicably) partly as I lost another horse, and the owner wasn’t in a good position to have her back, and she did eventually go back, and was sold to hack only.





In your position, I would contact the owner, and say something similar to your opening post. So you are all on the same page.





IME with my horses, older horses that aren’t worked regularly can really stiffen up and lose supporting muscle. Hopefully once in regular supportive work, and getting regular physio will improve. My older, stiffer horse was massively helped by careful attention to foot balance.

 

[flying_high]

lol, only had one recently - or at least one I knew I had. She was a mare I knew (I bred and backed her prior to sale) and she came back after 2 years for me to 'sort out her problems and then get her sold' (owner had been bucked off, suffered a nasty injury and totally lost confidence). Bucking was her most 'obvious' symptom but she had others (cribbing, hted being touched anywhere from girth to hind-quarter on the right hand side, VERY slight lameness on RH.) She had already had hind gut ulcers 'found' and treated but the circumstances of her management & care meant they'd never been cleared. On what I knew she had been treated with previously (vet recommended) I decided to try Acid Ease (a recommendation from a 'knowing' horse friend.) Within 3 weeks symptoms have disappeared and she has now been tested clear. I have heard SOME others say Acid Ease didn't work for that horse - but treatment by mouth is only a part of overall treatment. Management is at least as important and that basically means as much turnout as possible (24/24 is perfect - but at LEAST 7 hours if at all possible) and NEVER being hungry. A horse with ulcers should only NOT have food in front of it if it is actually being ridden. And if it is ridden for more than 2 hours, then it should stop for at least 5 minutes of grass half way through. Now that's not 'conclusive', I'm afraid - just what makes sense an worked for the mare just fixed.

Thank you

 

[SirBrastias]

A friend of mine has a big, rangey ex racer in his teens who I’m sure wouldn’t pass a vetting in a million years! He is a bit stiff, a bit wonky, drags his toes a little bit, but he is super. He hacks wonderfully, hunts, hunter trials, etc.
His flat work is ok, on big circles, but he would struggle with tight circles and struggles with show jumping. Given his age, build, and history she doesn’t bother trying to make him do the things he finds difficult, and had a LOT of fun hacking and jumping in straight lines. Is he happy and healthy? He’ll yes!
Depends what you want to do with this boy.
Oh, and my friend’s horse lives out 24/7 as his legs puff up if he stands in overnight. He’s better out moving around. However, his playground is about 10 acres, so no mud!

I actually brought one like this last year! Brother had competed him (team chasing, 80/90cm showjumping, arena eventing) the last couple of years, always stiff in winter behind, but rides ears pricked, will hack for hours and is the sweetest chap in the world. The 'bit wonky, bit stiff', big rangy, late teens perfectly describes him. He is the kindest horse with the biggest heart. I started riding him while my chap was out with a tendon injury and brought him cheap (basically on loan before). My heart very much overruled my head, but while he is happy, I don't feel poking and prodding will do anyone any good. He's the type who needs a job and wouldn't cope with retirement, so like your friend we'll just keep doing what he is happy with and be lead by him. Whether right or wrong, I don't know. While dealing with the other one's tendon injury the vet was telling me most horses will present 1/10 - 2/10 lame if you look hard enough which I thought was interesting. It is really refreshing reading your reply.

 

[Jellymoon]

What do you want to do with him OP?
If it’s just hacking and a little bit of hunting, I would just do that with him. I’m not sure it’s fair to start trying to reschool him in his teens when he’s been happily doing that job for years since he retired from racing. He could give you many years of happiness, he sounds absolutely lovely. And nothing to lose by having him on loan.
I honestly wouldn’t worry about a bit of stiffness, as long as he has his ears pricked and is willing to do the job, enjoy him!

 

[Jellymoon]

I actually brought one like this last year! Brother had competed him (team chasing, 80/90cm showjumping, arena eventing) the last couple of years, always stiff in winter behind, but rides ears pricked, will hack for hours and is the sweetest chap in the world. The 'bit wonky, bit stiff', big rangy, late teens perfectly describes him. He is the kindest horse with the biggest heart. I started riding him while my chap was out with a tendon injury and brought him cheap (basically on loan before). My heart very much overruled my head, but while he is happy, I don't feel poking and prodding will do anyone any good. He's the type who needs a job and wouldn't cope with retirement, so like your friend we'll just keep doing what he is happy with and be lead by him. Whether right or wrong, I don't know. While dealing with the other one's tendon injury the vet was telling me most horses will present 1/10 - 2/10 lame if you look hard enough which I thought was interesting. It is really refreshing reading your reply.

I couldn’t agree more with this and I think if you asked your horse if he would prefer to keep on taking you out on nice hacks several times a week and then go out with his friends in the field, or if he would like to be poked and prodded and possibly injected/medicated/lunged in a Pessoa/reschooled/hill worked/scoped etc etc I think I know what the answer would be! He’s a lucky boy and we mustn’t be swayed by the vets and all their diagnostics and the fact that the insurave will pay.

 

[ozpoz]

I think you can make improvements to stiffness with groundwork and training, as well as lots of turnout and this is even more important for an older horse who will have more wear and tear, than a younger horse. Your physio will be able to recommend the best way forward. But a slow warm up and cool down and some carrot stretches daily are a good start and will ultimately lead to more comfort and a longer ridden career for your horse.

 

[SirBrastias]

In response to you actual Q OP, I think physio is a great way to start. Muscling up and correct exercise will definitely help any stiffness or unevenness.

Both mine had a problem picking up the correct canter lead - both came good with work and strengthening (lots of transitions etc). Most ex-racers I have come across have a one side which they are much stronger on. When we do play in the school the old boy has even learned how to do a flying change - which proves old boys can still learn new tricks even if they are a bit wonky.

Good luck and I hope you have lots of fun with him.