New pony owner since December recent feet problem. First time.

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juliet2017

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Hello. I am a first time horse owner since December 2016. I have done as much as I can to get help, but still not able to do my ponies back hooves. I occasionally get 3 done but one right one is a no go. My pony can sense I have fears and I don't know how to control them. I'm petrified of her back legs. She has tried to kick me. I have cruel people say to me it's me who is the problem, but I got the nerve to pick up the foot she slammed it down and almost kicked. We are in a circle and I am not sure if it will ever change. Is it cruel to keep a horse if you can't do back feet. I could get the farrier out every 4 weeks rather than 8. I did have some feet help I could pay for it again. I'm totally lost. My pony has bonded with me and she is great tacking up although I never learnt to do the bridle properly. I need to get more lessons as I am learning to trot and would like to canter without fear one day. Moving to a new yard soon. More grass, more schools a bit cheaper and less work to do, i.e. No pooh picking or ragwort picking. she is a lovely laid back all rounder pony otherwise.
 
Hi. If your pony will pick up her feet for the farrier then get him to show you how. I am fairly experienced but my daughter's mare would NOT let me pick up one of her hinds when we first got her, fine with daughter and now me, though she didn't kick. If your new yard is a bit cheaper, use that money before you get used to having it on some lessons, not just riding but ground work and stable management so you can be more confident around your pony.
 
Can you touch them safely? If I have ones that are a bit "kicky" I tie a leadrope around the fetlock, pull the foot up and let them kick it out, when the stop I hold the foot and put it down. I do it until they realize what I'm asking and then try without the rope after a while :) It is also so much easier to hold on with a rope ! Just make sure it's soft so you don't rub the skin. I have had some serious kickers and it's worked every time. I'm sure with time and patience, you will get there.
 
You can't bridle the pony, trot properly, canter at all, or pick out its hind feet, yet you own it? Please, please get some professional help before you hurt yourself, spoil the pony, or both.

A bunch of strangers on a forum cannot teach you what you need to know. You need someone with you.
 
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I skim read over that and only read about the feet, it didn't sink in how inexperienced you are! You need a lot of outside help, bit odd how you ended up owning a pony with that level of inexperience. You must have some horsey background and people behind you?
 
When people say it is you who is the problem they are not being cruel they are trying to tell you that horses sense fear and other emotions. Some horses will try to dominate you becoming pushy bargey or trying to bite or kick. Others sense their handlers fear and become scared themselves. It can be a vicious circle when you are trying to fix a problem. Is it only your horse who you are afraid of the back legs and can you pick up other peoples horses back legs? With their permission obviously. I am sure someone with a quiet horse will let you practice. With your own horse if she is scared of having her back legs handled you can desensitise her with the stuffed glove tied to a stick method. Start somewhere she is comfortable for example the shoulder and gradually over days or weeks move closer to the back legs until you can stroke them with the glove. The glove on a stick is so you are far enough away to avoid being kicked. You have to be sure to keep the glove on her and only take the glove off her once she has finished fidgeting or kicking and is still. This is so you reward the good behaviour not the bad behaviour. Always end a training session on a good note so she is relaxed and accepting of the glove. Do not push her until she gets into a panic. If your horse is not genuinely scared or is only scared because she is picking up on your emotions then this method will not work. If your fear is the cause of bad behaviour then it is your fear that needs addressing for you to be able to cure the bad behaviour. I had a friend who did NLP which you can google if you are not familiar with it and it helped with her riding nerves so maybe it can help you too. Your other option is to pay someone to pick out the hooves daily. Lots of yards offer ad hoc services like this. The problem with not picking out the hooves daily is your horse could get thrush or a bad bruise from a stone wedged in there which is not removed. If you do not pick out the hooves how will you see any injuries like a nail sticking in the hoof. It will get very expensive too if she one day gets an abscess and you have to have the vet out daily for a few weeks to change the poultice. Definitely worth tackling this problem now before anything bad happens.
 
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Get an instructor, they can help you with issues on the ground as well as riding. Really sounds like you need to get the help urgently.
 
Do you have any experienced support or regular lessons? You need someone to help you urgently - to teach you the basics of how to handle a horse, how to tack up, etc. I'd actually suggest you move to somewhere like a riding school where you could get lots of help from qualified people, have lots of lessons (ground work and stable management as well as riding), and help you learn the basics.
 
Can't get near her back at all she swings her bum around like a naughty child testing. I have had the horse whisperer from horsemanship out she slams her foot down for him and he's experienced he says she just feels she does not have to pick up back feet.
 
I ride out safely we enjoy our hacking out in woods. I spent a few months learning to tack her up. She refused the correct way as she can't stand any hands on her nose. So I taught myself the wrong way with a little help from an instructor but it's quicker and less annoying for her. It's hands through her ears and place bit in mouth without touching nose and moving back when she moves back.
 
I have been taught lunging although I don't feel using a roller or side reins is what I need. I have had tutors lunge. Show me pole work and I have done the work which is stop start and without holding her rope she follows and stops so she has bonded. Sometimes I only have 3 days a week to work with her but I need to make 4 days, its hard as I'm a mum to a 5 year old and self employed so any work my way best take it. Then less work with my pony.
 
I had a very similar problem with my mare, when I first got her. However I knew for a fact she was just being bold about it; one day she just decided she didn't want to pick up her hooves anymore. Any of her hooves. She wouldn't kick like your pony, but she would try to run through and rear up, generally silly behaviour. I got her over it through pure repetition. At first I used the rope trick mentioned above, where you use a lead rope to pick up the leg. If she ran through I'd back her up, try again, big big reward for when she did it right. After a while started picking up as normal, not just when picking out hooves but before riding, after riding and even in field, just to keep her used to it. Now have no issues whatsoever and horse will lift leg on voice aid. It's an annoying problem and I agree that it's a good idea to have someone experienced try it first and be there with you to help. Good luck!
 
juliet2017 said:
without holding her rope she follows and stops so she has bonded.
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I am perplexed by this. I really don't get this 'bonding' thing that so many people go on about. I honestly think that new owners would make better progress with their horses if they eradicated the idea of this mystical and magical 'bond' from their minds and concentrated on good training for both themselves and their horses.

Yes, it's lovely when you've looked after a horse for a while and they recognise you and neigh when they see you, but that doesn't mean that you can forgo proper training. Halting and walking on in a closed area without a leadrope doesn't really mean anything IMHO, what use is it apart from being a cute party trick?

I also don't think that it is helpful to think of your horse as being a naughty child that is testing you, she is a horse not a child and she does not think like a child. Either the horse needs more training, the owner needs more training, or both need more training (unless the horse has a physical issue that makes lifting her hind legs painful, in which case she needs a vet).

I'm glad to read that you have help and I think that a good instructor who can continue help you in real life is your best way forwards. I wish you the best, I can remember going through similar worries about picking up hind the hooves of an uncooperative pony when I was new to horses and with help the issue was solved.
 
Faracat said:
I am perplexed by this. I really don't get this 'bonding' thing that so many people go on about. I honestly think that new owners would make better progress with their horses if they eradicated the idea of this mystical and magical 'bond' from their minds and concentrated on good training for both themselves and their horses.

Yes, it's lovely when you've looked after a horse for a while and they recognise you and neigh when they see you, but that doesn't mean that you can forgo proper training. Halting and walking on in a closed area without a leadrope doesn't really mean anything IMHO, what use is it apart from being a cute party trick?
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I get the bonding thing as I think it is very important. However as far as working without a lead I simply see that not as a party trick but as an obedience exercise, ie can the horse work unattached and listen to me (either voice, body language or schooling whip) for cues. I don't see it as a cute party trick but as a horse working with me. The next progression for me will be the same horse working with just neck ring with me on top when I hope it will also be focussing on me for cues. Ultimately of course that same horse will be working on the open common with just the neck ring and still (hopefully) listening me for the cues. No idea if that is bonded or just obedient and working well. (I am not a new owner BTW)
 
I'd love to know exactly what you and the OP (and anyone else who wants to share) mean by 'bonding'?

Is it just that their horse recognises them? Maybe neighs at them? That they have a good working partnership with them? That when ridden and on the ground, they work well together and the horse pays attention to them and follows their commands willingly? Something else?

The new owners that I have known (which will probably explain my earlier post) that have gone on about having a bond, have essentially seen it as a replacement for good basic horsemanship, as if when the bond is fully there, they will be like Alec and the Black on the beach and everything will just be amazing with no work.

I'm not saying that this is definitely what the OP is doing, but they need to be aware that it is a trap that people can fall into. I think it is when I read 'I have cruel people say to me it's me who is the problem' that made me think back to the owners I have in mind. It does seem that the farrier can lift the horse's hooves, so I still hope that with the right training, the OP could also do them.
 
Faracat said:
I'd love to know exactly what you and the OP (and anyone else who wants to share) mean by 'bonding'?

Is it just that their horse recognises them? Maybe neighs at them? That they have a good working partnership with them? That when ridden and on the ground, they work well together and the horse pays attention to them and follows their commands willingly? Something else?

.
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I have had around 17 or 18 horses and ponies over the years and out of those I feel I bonded with 4 or at least we bonded with each other.. The rest were obedient, recognised me, all neigh at me. They worked well ridden and on the ground but the bonded ones were different. I can't describe what it is but possibly it is like going out with someone who is perfectly nice, kind and everything but the real spark isn't there. With the bonded ones it is more like being married happily. You both have that feeling for each other. The bonded ones were perfectly capable of being naughty, not always perfect but it felt a different relationship. I bonded with 3 of them at first sight. We just looked at each other and that was it. We had to have each other and were never disappointed. One came as a 6mo foal. The breeder told me to spend some time with him as he would bond with me very quickly and he did, within a few days. I am struggling to describe it but it is perhaps more dog like than horse like. Presumably you accept that people bond very closely with their dogs.


I think what Juliet is describing in working without a rope and stopping is in fact similar to Roberts join up. If she walked anywhere around her school the horse would follow and stop when she stopped. That I don't see as bonding. You can in fact achieve join up with a horse that doesn't even really know you, like you or want to work for you.

Re your final para if the farrier can lift the feet and presumably trim and shoe then I would think that perhaps the horse may be taking the owner for a ride.
 
Ok. This is what I have summed up.

You are a new owner with a horse who is perhaps dominant.

Firstly, if the farrier can lift the back feet, then (and I'm not being cruel) the problem probably is you. I suspect that the issue here is confidence and possibly a communication breakdown. New horse, new owner, horse being a bit kicky to test the boundries/doesn't understand what you are asking for, you have understandibly been wary, horse has learned that your response is to back off. If this isn't rectified then the horse either thinks that this is the response you want, or that it doesn't have to pick its feet up. It isn't "naughty" it is just becoming a learned behaviour.

The only way to get anywhere is to persevere, with a confident friend or an instructor at hand but ultimately, it needs to be you who cracks it. The rope method around the pastern does work as you can stay out of the way of the kicky foot. The second way is to just keep lifting the foot, holding on until the kicking stops, wait maybe 1 or 2 seconds then put the foot down. Persevere until you can pick the foot out. A level head and consistency is the key.

This is the type of thing that does need to be nipped in the bud. What some people describe as a horse being "naughty" could actually be a lack of confidence in the handler or the horse genuinely does not know what you want, in which case it as YorksG has said, either you, the horse or most probably both need training. An obedient and happy horse comes from a confident handler who sets boundries and is consistent. When your horse knows the boundries and knows what is expected of them, THEN you can work on a bond.

When working on issues with feet, please ensure you are wearing your riding hat.
 
So you have owned the pony for nearly 6 months but you can't yet trot or canter. You can't pick the hind feet up but the farrier obviously can. You had it vetted but it is uneven behind, has had a torn ligament behind but you think it may have arthritis yet the vetting didn't pick any up. You can lunge but can't really tack up. And you have been around horses for 18 years but you are frightened of their back legs.

Right. My answer is horsefeathers.
 
juliet2017 said:
I ride out safely we enjoy our hacking out in woods. I spent a few months learning to tack her up. She refused the correct way as she can't stand any hands on her nose. So I taught myself the wrong way with a little help from an instructor but it's quicker and less annoying for her. It's hands through her ears and place bit in mouth without touching nose and moving back when she moves back.
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I like to be positive but if it took months for you to learn to tack up, you should not have a horse.
I have taught many children to tack up, taught myself many years ago from a book and if its taking months to learn do something so basic there is something very wrong.
I think by what you have said you are lucky not to have been injured. Find someone local and put it part livery and pay them to teach you on top, before you have 500kg of horse sat on you.
 
paddy555 said:
I am struggling to describe it but it is perhaps more dog like than horse like. Presumably you accept that people bond very closely with their dogs.
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Of course people and dogs bond very closely, but (to state the obvious) a horse is not a dog. Do I want my horse to pine after me like dogs can when I leave the yard? Hell no, I want them to graze peacefully with their herd mates etc... Now I absolutely accept that you can click with some horses more than others, I absolutely knew that CM was right for me when I first met her and the same with my grey. Maybe what you call a bond is more akin to what i call 'clicking with'? However I have known people use the term bond in a way that I feel is asking something of a horse that they cannot give. They want a horse that doesn't behave as a normal horse does, they want the Hollywood fiction and none of the slog that you have to put in to become a decent horseman/woman.

I'd love to know what animal behaviourists think of the topic, I suspect that it would be very interesting.
 
Faracat said:
Of course people and dogs bond very closely, but (to state the obvious) a horse is not a dog. Do I want my horse to pine after me like dogs can when I leave the yard? Hell no, I want them to graze peacefully with their herd mates etc... Now I absolutely accept that you can click with some horses more than others, I absolutely knew that CM was right for me when I first met her and the same with my grey. Maybe what you call a bond is more akin to what i call 'clicking with'? However I have known people use the term bond in a way that I feel is asking something of a horse that they cannot give. They want a horse that doesn't behave as a normal horse does, they want the Hollywood fiction and none of the slog that you have to put in to become a decent horseman/woman.

I'd love to know what animal behaviourists think of the topic, I suspect that it would be very interesting.
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I don't see a horse bonding is to the exclusion of being with other horses, grazing etc etc They are bonded when we are together not when they are out with their friends. My bonded ones have always been very sociable with other horses. I've known people with very strong bonds with their horse, clicked with or call it what you will. They were perfectly rational horses and I am not sure what you mean about Hollywood fiction. Also not sure why you refer to "slog" . I would call it "work with".
 
I am specifically referring to some first time owners (and really too inexperienced IMO) that had that idea. I understand that that isn't what a bond means to you, but I think that you have been around horses long enough to know that what they have in mind is a fantasy. I hadn't even heard the term before I joined the forum, but it does seem to be something that I have heard more and more over the years since then.

By slog, I really just mean the hours that most of us put in to learn. Not just to learn the practical stuff (eg how to pick up a horse's hooves) but the feel that you gain with experience eg timing when correcting behaviour that is undesirable. We all start knowing nothing after all and in this game you never stop learning.

By Hollywood fiction I mean that they as a novice imagine that they will meet the right horse and they will bond. Then the horse will do anything, even swim into the ocean, rather than be apart from them as the bond is oh-so-strong. An idealised or fantasy idea of a bond, rather than how you mean it.
 
yes I see more now what you mean Faracat. Thanks for the explanation. I never really considered that was how first time owners viewed their horses. Easy to see the horse walking all over them as I suspect may be happening in this case.
 
I'm sure that there are plenty of first time owners out there who are realistic in their expectations of horse ownership (I don't want to upset every first time owner out there by accidently implying that they are all the same, as I don't think that they are all the same).
 
Good horse management is not about 'bonding' its a practical skill, which the basics can be taught but a lot of it is learning to spot a horses behaviour by their body language, which makes it easier to predict how they are going to act, so you can avoid, prevent or encourage behaviours that we find useful.
You can 'bond' all you like but if you haven't got the knowledge to feed, spot illness, and manage their environment so it doesn't cause damage to them or to you, you should not be looking after them without supervision.
Everyone has to start somewhere, most of my stable management up to the age of sixteen was learnt out of books, which were written by people who taught the BHS way. They may not have been perfect, but they were a good practical guide and I could work out if someone actually knew what they were talking about.
Now there is so much s*** written by people who are just out to sell some gadget there seems to be no clear guide for the novice.
But back to the original poster. I have no idea how old she is but if she was my daughter I would be concerned that she was going to get herself killed. I know of two people, in my area, both experience horse people, who have been killed by a horse that kicked them, if they do not kick you in the head when you could get a head injury from the fall.
 
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