New pony refusing and running out - positive encouragement needed!

B

billylula

Well-Known Member
Joined
29 November 2011
Messages
541
Visit site
My daughter's pony is a lovely boy, perfect in every way really. Except for SJ when he will refuse and swerve. Had a lesson with a very good SJ trainer yesterday and first time round he refused one and ran out twice. Trainer said he was being cheeky and said daughter should carry a whip (she doesnt use one as a rule and he doesnt like being tapped with one anyway). She did borrow a whip and he went round as good as gold. Daughter felt very encouraged which was great.

Am i being too negative in thinking that this might be a hard habit to break? As soon as he gets used to her holding a whip he might start again? Trainer said daughter's riding was lovely and pony was cheeky rather than her riding him badly although they both have a tendency to rush jumps which we are working on.

Any stories of refusers becoming good jumping ponies? He's very capable and if the jumping doesn't work out its not the end of the world, but daughter will be disappointed.
 
Yes,knobberpony would refuse and run out when we first got her.In her case she was a very honest pony but picked up on my daughter's lack of confidence.Daughter thought she couldn't do it,pony then thought that it was a problem and it became a vicious circle.Regular lessons and PC rallies helped and we also found that jumping on a rubber/sand/grass surface rather than woodchip helped,the wood chip was slippery.

She rarely refuses or runs out now,and people can't believe it is the same pony.It took a good 6 months for them to get the best out of each other though.

Good luck.:)
 
Firstly congrats on new pony! He sounds like a nice boy! :D

Well, as the owner (well, mother of the owner!) of a chronic dirty stopper, I thought I'd best add my comments to your thread!

Our pony Dolly (otherwise known as Dirty Stop Dolly!) is a fab jumping pony, but can put in the most awful stops (particularly at fillers).

My daughter is having regular jumping lessons to equip her with the skills to be able to manage this as best as possible, however whether we ever cure this problem remains to be seen.

Our "tactics" have been as follows:

Always carry a whip (daughter rarely uses it) - if pony tends to duck out to the left, carry whip in left hand (and vice verse if it's the other side - ours is usually the left!).

Legs on at jumps that may cause a problem. Daughter usually adds vocal encouragement :p

Really work on the steady canter, the more out of rhythm pony gets, the more chance she'll stop or duck out (usually stop in our case!).

If pony is leaning to one side on approach (and daughter feels her go heavy) she taps her shoulder with the whip on the side she's leaning to (or if she's drifting, she corrects using her legs).

If a stop or duck out occurs, turn a circle immediately and straight back to the jump with lots of leg - Dolly used to bog off with daughter after refusing, now she knows she's going to have to jump it anyway, so this has helped a lot.

Dolly used to jump one fine, then bog off and refuse the next. Instructor had them jumping one, then halting. This really helped get Dolly used to waiting for the next instruction.


I'm sure there's more (we've been working on this a while :rolleyes:) but my daughter is going clear more often than not now (touch wood touch wood) so the above have helped a lot.

I've found the more confidence daughter has got (using the above tactics) the less stops we're getting. And of course practice, practice, practice!!!

Hope you solve the problem, PM me if you want to chat one mum to another!

:)

xxx
 
It could also be gear or feet related...

If a horses or pony's feet aren't right they will be reluctant to jump and put any extra weight on their hooves. Will your pony walk down a hill with no reluctance?

Also if your saddle is too tight, the gullet could be either restricting the range of movement in the shoulder or it could be digging in to the soft tissue behind the shoulder...

Of course your pony could just be testing your daughter, especially if it's feet and saddle are fine. The only thing I have found that works in that case, is lots of leg and a whip. :)

Good luck with the pony, I hope your daughter has fun with it :)
 
I suspect the pony was just being, well a pony.

Once your daughter gets the upper hand (perhaps just by carrying a whip), I expect he'll be the little champion you are both hoping for.
 
I would suggest more lessons with whoever you had the lesson with - they obviously could see what was going on and helped her sort it...
 
I used to have a lot of run outs with my old pony over bigger jumps. I'd wimp out, take my leg off a couple of strides away, and she'd think "well, I won't bother then" :p This technique means it looks like you had every intention of jumping it...and the real reason for the run out was only obvious if you were being watched all the way up and over the jump...

Instructor used to make me growl at her- and it worked! I was always very softly spoken, so if I ever shouted, both mine knew I meant Business.
 
Well, I would go back to basics - particularly steering, and restart over smaller jumps. Sounds to me like a confidence issue (and possibly a history of having his back teeth held on to by previous riders). Whatever the reason, he clearly doesn't enjoy jumping and if a pony doesn't enjoy it you are up against it the whole time. Go back to smaller jumps, reward with loads of praise and something he really likes when he has done it well, and watch him learn to love it and give of his best. One home bred mare here loved hacking - so we would pop a couple of jumps first and when she had done them right, off we went for a hack.
Any refuser can become a confident happy jumper if the motivation is there.
 
we are having a similar problem with 1 of ours 2 so like you as mum of 'pony owner' i feel your anxiety!! the pair had their first jumping show last night ( at our yard so used to environment) and he behaved like a tit to be fair, in the practice arena, which was the arena he always schools and has lessons in, he threw a tantrum, running out at the practice jump, then tanking off with her, which totally unnerved his 13 year old jockey, who is still regaining her confidence after he bronked her off when we first got him. After the tears she decided not to enter.They do have regular lessons and he is strong in those also when jumping, her instructor advised maybe a stronger bit, he is ridden in a snaffle, but he is only 5 so i worry about making him hard mouthed. Appologies OP not trying to hi jack your post but as they are similar thought we could both get some positive advice :):)
 
Sounds a bit like my old Pony.... he used to gallop at EVERYTHING, stop one second, jump it the next. Typical cheeky pony. All I can say is use your legs, no matter what speed the pony is going at, kick! We had all sorts of instructors, Carol Mailer, PC instructors, did all the PC rallies and everything, only thing that worked was use of legs :)
 
Ponies are very clever and very quick to pick up any dithering on the riders part, to get the pony to jump it you have to want to do it. I know its expensive but only let her jump when she is having a lesson other wise they will be practicing getting it wrong.
Carrying a whip is not to beat the c*** out of the pony but to renforce the leg aids, children tend to have weeker aids and when they are nervous they freeze and forget to use them. Invest in a descent video camera so when everyone is calm she can see what she and the pony are doing, so much of riding is thinking ahead which for lots of adults does not come naturally.
Think on the positive, she did well with the trainer and I am sure will get the knack.The pony is obviously far more experienced than her and has had time what works for him to get out of work, she will soon get his measure and learn how to stop his tricks.
 
If the pony is rushing then this needs ti be addressed as this would suggest it is worried rather than enjoying it. I also imagine your daughter is 'dropping' the pony as she gets to the fence and hence pony, through lack of confidence, ducks out. It is too easy for people to say the pony's being 'cheeky' or naughty as generally the problem (if not pain-related) is down to the rider. I would be wary if an instructor whose solution is to give the child a whip. A whip can be used as an aid to hack up the leg, sure but I would suggest the instructor concentrate on helping your daughter use her legs and hands more effectively. My first tip would be she needs to sit up and hold and stop pony rushing, keep leg on and keep hold right to the moment of takeoff. It is very very common to people to drop the horse at the last stride and this is when stops happen on a horse lacking confidence.
 
My horse did this: rushed and stopped or ran out.

I took him right back to the beginning - was good for me too! Did poles, grids etc right through the winter. I really enjoyed it and it improved everything about us individually and together.

Now he is jumping and enjoying it and so am I.

Other thing, if he does not need to go back to basics, is to make sure the rider is looking where she is going rather than at the jump - makes a vast difference to me and my horse.
 
Cheeky little blighters ponies. They work it all out well in advance. I have 3 kids ( well now all growing teenagers/20) They have all had ponies that stop. The rushing needs to be sorted as pony will have worked this one out, rush to the fence, kid not quick enough out the side door goes pony !

Firstly do not let your child get down about it. Try putting wings up with just a pole on the ground so your child feels happy to push the pony over should it start going to the side. Keep a steady trot or canter but it must be steady, child may as well learn this now, if pony rushes then they must circle until pony is responding to its rider, keep the jumps low, thats hard as child will want to go bigger but pony must learn or at least respect the rider. I too would only jump with instructor who will be so much better at handling it than you.( meant in the kindest way possible).
 
JillA said:
Well, I would go back to basics - particularly steering, and restart over smaller jumps. Sounds to me like a confidence issue (and possibly a history of having his back teeth held on to by previous riders). Whatever the reason, he clearly doesn't enjoy jumping and if a pony doesn't enjoy it you are up against it the whole time. Go back to smaller jumps, reward with loads of praise and something he really likes when he has done it well, and watch him learn to love it and give of his best. One home bred mare here loved hacking - so we would pop a couple of jumps first and when she had done them right, off we went for a hack.
Any refuser can become a confident happy jumper if the motivation is there.
Click to expand...

I second this - just remember the pony is a reflection of the rider!!! And punishing the pony NEVER works!!! I learned this the hard (very hard!) way!! Start small and work in baby steps!!! And don't feel pressured to improve any quicker than the combination can!!! Confidence needs to be built in both!! Have fun should be the watchword!!
 
Thank you everyone. He looks so cheerful when he is jumping that we assumed that he enjoys it - ears pricked forward, really happy looking. I think dd liked the rushing as it meant he was forward going ;) she has realised that it is something she needs to address when SJ -she's a bit of a thruster out hunting and she needs to learn that its not the same. Also you have more time to stress over the jumps SJ than you do when you are hunting!

She doesnt use the whip (he'd bronc if she did apparently) but just knowing that she had it seemed to get through to him.

SJ instructor is very good british level instructor and when she gave them things to work on at the end of the rally she said dd should 'believe in herself'.

I suppose I feel a bit sorry for her as her last pony refused a lot and we vowed not to get another stopper. His feet are fine as is his saddle as it was checked by nathaniel underwood who is supposed to be amazing and to be honest he was so expensive that even if he's wrong I can't afford to go anywhere else :D
 
Now there's an interesting comment "her last pony refused a lot". What is the one thing they have in common? Yep, the rider. She probably needs to be more committed - remember the old saying throw your heart over first - and get rid of the doubts that will have come from the previous pony. And GO FOR IT!!!! lol
 
Is it sound. Then its taking the p and maybe new jockey isnt so confident and pony can feel it. Nothing really just that jockey needs to become more confident, stand by the side of the jump and scream at it so it doesnt run out, thats what my dad used to do., and at a show he would stand by the entrance gate pand pony would see him and think twice about running out. This would also give jockey confidence that it didnt run out whilst you were there.
 
After 5 years of battling with this, changing instructors etc to cope with Bs refusing, he spent last summer at a trainers yard and has had the naughtiness taken out of him, not refused since! Think it's a case of rider expecting horse to refuse and horse taking advantage in my case, although once your daughter becomes more confident and determined to get to the other side of the fence no matter what, pony should pick up on the signals and be more inclined to jump :)
 
I agree with JillA here, if the previous pony did the same then I would think how the child is presenting the pony to the fence needs to be looked at. Maybe she lacks confidence and the pony senses this, or the pony is being allowed to rush and get worried. Trust me, I have been there with both my pony when I was a teenager and later with my horse who lost his confidence as did I and it wad a vicious circle but with some good instruction it came right. I was too late with my pony ad didn't know enough then and he'd been ruined long before I got him. He had all the power and ability but he too rushed and worried. Had I known the instructors then that I know now we could have probably put him right. However, it has helped me now in asking why a horse is acting in a certain way. They can't just be labelled as 'naughty' as that's unfair. 9 times out of 10 the issue comes from the rider.
 
I completely agree that it is almost certainly at least partly her 'fault' - she's brave though generally and hunts big so we can't really pin point where the confidence issue is. I think lots of lessons (well, as many as we can afford) will help, we have two more booked with SJ trainer.

The first pony was DEFINITELY not her fault - he is a serial refuser - stems from lack of confidenc on his part - he's a follower, not a leader. Very nappy when hacking alone, hates to leave other ponies in the SJ ring but will jump very happily when he is jumping back to them :rolleyes: also a fab hunter (he can follow the rest). He's only 7 so I am sure with work he might get there, he has all the ability. He's not as bad over rustic fences so my middle daughter who now has him can do hunter trials rather than SJ.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top