New Shoes- Natural Balance -Pics Your opinions please!

[skewbald86]

Hi,
After my post last week about the state of my lads shoes, I go a new farrier.
He did them yesterday and used natural balance shoes on him.
His feet I think look great compared to what they were like.
The only thing is he is moving differently. I expected a bit of change as the farrier said it will change his movement slightly.
He has gone from lovely long paces to short choppy paces, he doesn't look sure of them when hes walking, I only hacked him today to get used to them but he took a bit off kicking on. He did improve ever so slightly in them but not to his usual lovely big strides.
Is this normal for NB shoes? is it something he will get used to and get back his stride? If not I might have to move him back to normal shoes
Theres no heat in his feet and he looks funny on both the front two.

 

[neighnay]

Are these the Cytek shoes?? in which case, i have used these for years!
Many people are sceptical and not willing to give new things a try but my god i love mine! have three horses on them, one horse that couldnt keep normal shoes on for more then a few days, tried 5 differnt farriers all had trouble so ended up having these! the farrier is brilliant and the shoes stay on so well!
All of mine took a good couple of weeks to get used to them, its a whole differnt way of moving, so i would give your horse time to see if he comes right!

 

[skewbald86]

I don't think they are, but I think their similar from what I've just read quickly on google!
Hope he improves, they do look alot thicker than normal shoes so he's probably finding them a bit heavy too.

 

[thatsmygirl]

I'm not a fan off natural balancing shoes. The break over point is different and I found none off mine would except it butis good for some horses who has problems. There's a lot off over hanging shoe which yes you sometimes get some but seems to be a lot, hope it's not the off fore or your gona lose shoes for a last time. On the pic off his heels I wonder if the foot is balanced???? Did he put the t bar on him? Just seems to be a lot more heel on the left than the right as you look at thec pic. And shoe don't seem to match both sides!!! Close to frog on right but quite a bit off on left. Sorry not being nasty just what it looks like to me.

 

[gekko]

Ok, opinion as a Master Farrier...NB shoes have their place, but are not a "general use" shoe...not beneficial to most horses in most cases...but can be great for those that NEED them.

The specific shoeing job pictured...@#$%^ horrible!

 

[Ranyhyn]

My horse came in natural balance shoes and I certainly liked the way he moves, however now when shod the farrier rolls the toe which improves breakover anyway which I think is the main aim of the natural balance shoe anyway isnt it? Nothing overly good or awfully bad to say here.

 

[china]

he may well be abit sore as it would have changed the way hes walked so untill he settles he will prob be abit short, my boy has just had straight bars on and now has a walk of a 17hh shire, its huge but it took him a while to adjust. its hard to see the first two pics because of the straw, the last pic looks like he has lateral extensions but that might just be the angle of the pic.

 

[peanut]

My flatfooted horse has been in NB shoes since having corns/laminitis and although I don't like the look of the shape of her feet now, they've sorted her problems.

 

[4faults]

My mare has Navic and has been in NB for awhile, she had lovely long paces before and is now quite stilted and choppy but they have improved the lameness Im assuming its because the shorten the breaking point? Either way she is staying in them as she is no longer in ridden work

 

[skewbald86]

I'm not a fan off natural balancing shoes. The break over point is different and I found none off mine would except it butis good for some horses who has problems. There's a lot off over hanging shoe which yes you sometimes get some but seems to be a lot, hope it's not the off fore or your gona lose shoes for a last time. On the pic off his heels I wonder if the foot is balanced???? Did he put the t bar on him? Just seems to be a lot more heel on the left than the right as you look at thec pic. And shoe don't seem to match both sides!!! Close to frog on right but quite a bit off on left. Sorry not being nasty just what it looks like to me.

It was suggested he have these as he has low heel and long toe. Not sure if you saw my last post?
the farrier said he has put alot of overhang on that one side as his hoof has started to curl in on that side from too small of a shoe being used by the last farrier, and this would encourage it to grow in the right direction.
He said he purposly did the outside of his hinds longer to help with the conformation of his hinds. He told me he'd do this once he had his old shoes off.
Thanks for you advice, I am going to give him a couple of weeks, if hes not improved might get them taken off. He has lovely dressage moves, which is what I want to concentrate on with him, but he isnt moving well on them at all. But it is a big change for him as his toes have been long and heels low all his life so a big change for him

 

[neighnay]

i believe it may well be NB that my farrier uses....i think he reverted to them from cytek, well whatever he did worked, and the horses feet are all in better shape. Ive just had a flat footed 17 hand horse shoed by him for the first time and the feet already look a lot better, and his general movement is so much better, he struggled down hill witht he old shoes now he happily trots down the hill in the field no problem! i say try it and see what happens. you never please everyone!
Any chance you can get a photo of the underneath of your horses foot?

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

hate NB shoes, never seem to make things better long term and totally disort the feet.

cant comment on shoes in those pics as all i can see is that the heels are awfully long and underrun and the toe has been dumped, not a NB issue but a &***& farrier issue!

 

[skewbald86]

Looks like from the comments so far I'm going to be looking for a third farrier, he is a remidial farrier and has been recomended by vets.
When he was vetted the vet said he should be shod so his heels are long, as hes flat footed, with long toes, low heels. And if they weren't his heels would start to split.
He didn't put them on him as a normal way of shoeing. We discussed it and he thought it would be a good idea as his heels are so bad, and he has been tripping over, Which he didnt on out hack today (this is a first, he we normally have at least 3 or 4 trips in a hack.

 

[skewbald86]

Heres my post from last week, showing what his feet looked like before they were done with NB's
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=387064

 

[sally2008]

I am a NB fan and having seen the benefits of them when properly applied for the last seven years would never have my horses in anything else now, but I do have the benefit of a farrier who holds the highest qualifications in NB shoeing.

The trouble is that any one can buy the shoes but they often don't understand the principles behind the shoeing system, consequently they are not successful in sorting the issues and it's the shoes that get blamed. As a previous poster said, this is not an NB problem, it's a farrier problem. I would like to see the underside of the foot to be sure but looking at the photographs you have posted I would say they haven't been applied using the guidelines my farrier has outlined.

Whereabouts in the country are you?

 

[galaxy]

My old boy was shod natural balance and my farrier shoes horses that way that have bad foot conformation for HPA.

It can take a few shoeings for a farrier to get the foot just right for NB shoeing. It's a different way of trimming to prepare for the shoe than the conventional. Bare with it.

In terms of movement. He was only done yesterday, I give it at least this cycle of shoes and then speak to farrier and get him to see the horse move. It really is a totally different way of shoeing and I imagine your horse is feeling it and adjusting.

 

[galaxy]

Heres my post from last week, showing what his feet looked like before they were done with NB's
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=387064

That's quite a difference. Give it some time. You horse had no heel support before, it's going to be feeling strange.

 

[skewbald86]

I'm in warwickshire. Yay some positive posts, don't feel as bad anymore!

the farrier is suposse to be really good, and he has had a tought job as he has been shod with no heel support for at least the last 5 years (I have spoke to his old owner and she (like I was about foot conformation!) totally clueless about his low heels.

 

[oliversmummy]

Hi there - I had exactly the same problem with our 17hh mare although she had great shaped feet, my old farrier insisted that nb shoes where the way to go with her for some reason!, she lost her stunning movement and confidence levels dropped. i gave them about 6 shoeings before changing my farrier to another guy who now is great he shoes her in the normal shoes with a toe clip and her movement has returned, he explained that there are alot of horses with not great feet that don't need nb shoes just a better farrier!!!
Good luck and hope that his movement comes back

 

[skewbald86]

Hi there - I had exactly the same problem with our 17hh mare although she had great shaped feet, my old farrier insisted that nb shoes where the way to go with her for some reason!, she lost her stunning movement and confidence levels dropped. i gave them about 6 shoeings before changing my farrier to another guy who now is great he shoes her in the normal shoes with a toe clip and her movement has returned, he explained that there are alot of horses with not great feet that don't need nb shoes just a better farrier!!!
Good luck and hope that his movement comes back

How long did it take to get her movement back after? was it instant?
I think I'll ask him to shoe normal shoes next time. He has been going so well on the flat so don't want to put his progress back.
All I want is for him to be comfortable and go well.

 

[china]

if he is recomended by your vet then give him a chance, but dont be afraid to ask him some questions though if you are worried! i am always asking my farriers questions, puts my mind at rest!

 

[skewbald86]

will ring him later to ask about his movement.
i'm not to worried about the overhang shoe, and feet left long at the heels and outside as he went around every foot and told me what was good and bad about each one individually and how he was going to shoe each one to improve it over time. He did say they will look better over time and it will take his feet a while to adjust. I just don't want him to lose his lovely movement.

 

[Jennyharvey]

I think that what it looks like is his heels are underrun, instead of being short.
Short heels are not a bd thing, but what looks to be happening is his heels are growing forward, instead of downward toward the ground. http://www.barefootworks.co.uk/images/Annie Jul 078.jpg
I tried to find a well shod hoof, but could find one on goodle. Only reason i chose a barehoof.
If you look at the angle of the heels. Its much more upright, and looks like a very healthy hoof.

With your horse, his heels have much more of an angle, sloping under his feet a bit.
Dunno if that makes sense lol. Just compare the anlge of the heels, and the slope of them. I truly believe your horses feet are underrun, and need to be treated as such.

Ask your farrier if he thinks he just has low heels, or whether he thinks they are underrun.

 

[Jennyharvey]

just found a diagram of a hoof. They are actually showing a under run heel as normal.
http://chestofbooks.com/animals/hor...For-The-Model-The-Hoof-Of-The-Horse-60078.jpg

 

[skewbald86]

I think that what it looks like is his heels are underrun, instead of being short.
Short heels are not a bd thing, but what looks to be happening is his heels are growing forward, instead of downward toward the ground. http://www.barefootworks.co.uk/images/Annie Jul 078.jpg
I tried to find a well shod hoof, but could find one on goodle. Only reason i chose a barehoof.
If you look at the angle of the heels. Its much more upright, and looks like a very healthy hoof.

With your horse, his heels have much more of an angle, sloping under his feet a bit.
Dunno if that makes sense lol. Just compare the anlge of the heels, and the slope of them. I truly believe your horses feet are underrun, and need to be treated as such.

Ask your farrier if he thinks he just has low heels, or whether he thinks they are underrun.

Yes it makes perfect sense, most of the horses on the yard are like this- the longer theyve been there to worse they are.
How is this corrected, I will ask him when he comes out next. he has alot of heel support now the shoe extends further back than the old shoes- will this help to correct?

 

[Jennyharvey]

Just found a shod hoof for comparison. Its the best shod foot i can find.
http://www.lifelearn-cliented.com/cms/resources/body/1116/farriery-1.jpg

To be honest, the best way to correct this is to remove the cause, ie the shoe. Its actually very hard to find a shod hoof who isnt slightly underrun.

To correct this, you have to return the foot to its natural function.
Below is a case study i found. Hope its helpfull.
http://holistic-hooves.co.uk/CaseStudy2.aspx
Because the shoe prevents the normal expansion of the hoof, the heels just grow forward instead of staying short, as with a barehoof.
Your farrier may not be happy to take the shoes off, so i would recommend you to do a bit of research to decide if its the best course of action for your horse. If it is, there are many organisations that can help.
http://www.epauk.org/ You should be able to find an EP in your area.

Some before and after pics on his results page if your interested.
http://www.unshod.co.uk/

 

[skewbald86]

Just found a shod hoof for comparison. Its the best shod foot i can find.
http://www.lifelearn-cliented.com/cms/resources/body/1116/farriery-1.jpg

To be honest, the best way to correct this is to remove the cause, ie the shoe. Its actually very hard to find a shod hoof who isnt slightly underrun.

To correct this, you have to return the foot to its natural function.
Below is a case study i found. Hope its helpfull.
http://holistic-hooves.co.uk/CaseStudy2.aspx
Because the shoe prevents the normal expansion of the hoof, the heels just grow forward instead of staying short, as with a barehoof.
Your farrier may not be happy to take the shoes off, so i would recommend you to do a bit of research to decide if its the best course of action for your horse. If it is, there are many organisations that can help.
http://www.epauk.org/ You should be able to find an EP in your area.

Some before and after pics on his results page if your interested.
http://www.unshod.co.uk/

Thanks for all that, very interesting, not sure my lad would go well barefoot, his feet have alot of white in them and are quite soft, and hes very sore footed, just looking at a stone makes him hobble!
will give him a call tonight and see what he says, I've been doing lots of googleing and it looks like the shortening might just be a temperary side effect. so fingers crossed

 

[Jennyharvey]

A lot of people still think that white feet are weaker than black ones. Its a complete myth. Lots of horses, especially creams, have 4 white hooves, and have no problem with them being weak or soft. MYTH

What age is your horse? Horses are not born with bad or weak feet. They get that way through a lifetime of shoeing.

The longer the horse wears shoes, the more the horse needs them, if you know what i mean.

The only way to get a good foot is allow it to function naturally.

There are so many hoof boots on the market so i dont believe any horse NEEDS shoes. From remedial to competition boots, all types for all horses.

I took the shoes of a 10 yr old tb gelding a few months ago. He didnt really have much wrong with his feet, but he was very over at the knee which would suggest heel pain.

The first time i walked him after taking off the shoes, in had to ask myself if i had done the right thing. BHe was soo sore. But now, to see him trot and canter around the arena sound, happy and all within about 3 months. Its such a nice feeling, to see him so comfortable and with 4 healthy feet.

He had to wear hoof boots for the first month just to be turned out. He wore thick pads to help stimulate hoof growth, but now he is fine without them.

Any horse can go without shoes if the owner and farrier are prepared to give it a go, and the owner is prepared to put in the time, effort and patiance to allow the horse to get his healthy feet back again.

 

[skewbald86]

hes 8 years old.
what kind of maintenance does it take at the begining for barefoot?
He is on lvery and only get to see him 4 days in a week, so if it needed daily maintenance I couldnt do it with him. my livery yard is really old school so i couldnt ask them to change boots or anything.
I spoke to the farrier who said rather than the NB shoes causing his shorter stride its just the fact hes taken so much off his toes and left his heel long.
He said he should be ok in a few days- which i thought was quite soon, so if hes still not right by monday i'll call him again for his advice

 

[Munchkin]

I had a horse that benefited immensely from NB shoeing. That is not good NB shoeing in my opinion - sorry.