springfallstud
Well-Known Member
How do you feel about using a young stallion with no progeny on the ground? Would you be put of or as long as his pedigree and everything about himself ticked all the right boxes would you go for it? Thoughts please
New stallions
- Thread starter springfallstud
- Start date
catza
Well-Known Member
I'm going to use Zurich next season on one of my jumping mares, I saw him at Den Bosche in feb and feel it would be worth the risk!
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
I used a young and unproven 3 yr old stallion on 2 of my mares this year. This is because he is impeccably bred and breezed through his grading, thus giving hope for the future. So far he is showing every sign of being top class (he just won a big loose jumping championship as well). He's got a great temp; fab mover/jumper and just in every way ticked all the right boxes. So based on that I decided to take the chance now whilst his stud fee is still v v low and hope thus that it pays off.
Anastasia
Well-Known Member
We used Wallenberg on our Emilion mare last year, as yet no foals on the ground, as last year was his first year. Sometimes you have to take the chance as you may like the match and be onto a winner anyways, and get in front of the crowd, so to speak.
I am not one of these people who likes to jump on the same bus as everyone else, and sometimes you just have to take a chance in breeding and hope for the best. Whats the worst case scenario.....that you have to sell the offspring slightly cheaper.....worth the risk to me for a potential winner!!
I am not one of these people who likes to jump on the same bus as everyone else, and sometimes you just have to take a chance in breeding and hope for the best. Whats the worst case scenario.....that you have to sell the offspring slightly cheaper.....worth the risk to me for a potential winner!!
Anastasia
Well-Known Member
Forgot to add.......look at all the people who used our "un proven" stallion last year....his foals were some of the highest graded in Scotland this year!! Sometimes you have to be the first one to make the move...
Ciss
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
How do you feel about using a young stallion with no progeny on the ground? Would you be put of or as long as his pedigree and everything about himself ticked all the right boxes would you go for it? Thoughts please
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Absolutely the best thing to do if you are confident and expert enough to see through the hype. Not to be recommended for first time mare owners though.
How do you feel about using a young stallion with no progeny on the ground? Would you be put of or as long as his pedigree and everything about himself ticked all the right boxes would you go for it? Thoughts please
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Absolutely the best thing to do if you are confident and expert enough to see through the hype. Not to be recommended for first time mare owners though.
htobago
Well-Known Member
Well, about 20 breeders used my unproven 3yo first-season stallion this year - so I'm all in favour of this LOL!
Seriously, if you are a good judge, and the stallion and his pedigree tick all the boxes, then I see no reason why not, although obviously you are taking a bit more of a risk than using a proven sire.
What I wouldn't do would be to use an unproven stallion with an 'unproven' pedigree - that would be too much of a risk.
Seriously, if you are a good judge, and the stallion and his pedigree tick all the boxes, then I see no reason why not, although obviously you are taking a bit more of a risk than using a proven sire.
What I wouldn't do would be to use an unproven stallion with an 'unproven' pedigree - that would be too much of a risk.
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
At the end of the day I think you have to view it that all breeding is a risk as however well bred or proven a mare/stallion are, their foal may still well turn out to be a 'dud'....think we just have to cover as many bases as poss in the hope that we may produce a 'superstar'...
DAHH
Well-Known Member
I only used a proven stallion once and that was for my first foal. Ever since I have used young stallions. However, they have to have impeccable breeding and proven pedigree. Obviously you never know but sometimes the sire can turn out to be exceptional. A stallion I used a couple of years ago has just qualified for beijing. At the time his stud fee was only £400! Now all I need is for him to win......
springfallstud
Well-Known Member
Forgot to add my point, i am happy to use unproven stallions, have a foal on the ground from a young stallion now, one in foal to a different young one and am eyeing some others for next years coverings, it is a gamble in many ways but the ones i have used have come from a long line of well known and successful stallions and mares.
koeffee
Well-Known Member
i have used three young stallions with no progeny on the ground, and i had three lovely foals, wouldnt say world beaters, but nice saleable stock, i have bought a french stallion by dollar de la pierre this year for myself. i hope to grade him next year, but his breeding is the who's who. it was worth a chance!!!
ESH_Jess
Well-Known Member
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!! we would also have to say yes, and we have a mare in foal to San Amour (Sandro Hit x Plaisir d'A'mour) who's first years foals will be 2008. We also used Rhondeo (Rhotspon x Brentano II) in his first year.
Anastasia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!! we would also have to say yes, and we have a mare in foal to San Amour (Sandro Hit x Plaisir d'A'mour) who's first years foals will be 2008. We also used Rhondeo (Rhotspon x Brentano II) in his first year.
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I did say.....I used my own unproven stallion.....
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!! we would also have to say yes, and we have a mare in foal to San Amour (Sandro Hit x Plaisir d'A'mour) who's first years foals will be 2008. We also used Rhondeo (Rhotspon x Brentano II) in his first year.
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I did say.....I used my own unproven stallion.....
Fahrenheit
Well-Known Member
I used Renkum Valentino in his first stud season. I also use my own young stallion Hot Business on a few mares last year and this year. I also used Vincent II last year he is another young stallion. I am sure I have used other young stallions as well, but they are the one that come to mind!
I have my eye on mat_b's young colt, he is stunning but sadly I have to be patient, he is only turning 2 years old **big sigh**
I have my eye on mat_b's young colt, he is stunning but sadly I have to be patient, he is only turning 2 years old **big sigh**
ESH_Jess
Well-Known Member
oh yes, sorry AnasTINSELtasiaLLT1, so you did!!!!!! hehe!!!
ESH_Jess
Well-Known Member
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I have my eye on mat_b's young colt, he is stunning but sadly I have to be patient, he is only turning 2 years old **big sigh**
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was that the one he said about selling a little while back? think it might have been by numero uno (unless my terrible memory fails me, which it often does!!)
I have my eye on mat_b's young colt, he is stunning but sadly I have to be patient, he is only turning 2 years old **big sigh**
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was that the one he said about selling a little while back? think it might have been by numero uno (unless my terrible memory fails me, which it often does!!)
Fahrenheit
Well-Known Member
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was that the one he said about selling a little while back? think it might have been by numero uno (unless my terrible memory fails me, which it often does!!)
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Yes thats the one, he changed his mind and is keeping him!
was that the one he said about selling a little while back? think it might have been by numero uno (unless my terrible memory fails me, which it often does!!)
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Yes thats the one, he changed his mind and is keeping him!
volatis
Well-Known Member
I used Festivo in his first season on 2 mares, and bred them back the following year as I was so pleased with the foals.
I used Don Ricoss last year although that was his 2nd season at stud. Used Vincent II in his 2nd season and have bred to Showmaker this year in his 2nd season.
This year I have bred to Samaii and this is his first season at stud.
However I have also bred to older established sires such as Tycoon and Latimer. I have made the decision not to breed to a young stallion in the past, despite the fact I had an incredible feeling about him. Then watching his stud fee climb and him impressing so much on the international stage, that if I see a young stallion that fills my requirements, and I know the mare and her family well, then I have no hesitation using a young stallion
I used Don Ricoss last year although that was his 2nd season at stud. Used Vincent II in his 2nd season and have bred to Showmaker this year in his 2nd season.
This year I have bred to Samaii and this is his first season at stud.
However I have also bred to older established sires such as Tycoon and Latimer. I have made the decision not to breed to a young stallion in the past, despite the fact I had an incredible feeling about him. Then watching his stud fee climb and him impressing so much on the international stage, that if I see a young stallion that fills my requirements, and I know the mare and her family well, then I have no hesitation using a young stallion
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
I'm planning to send a mare back to Langaller next season, they should have a 5 yr old Matinee son available by AI.
We used Matinee on full sisters and one produced Jacques, who is proving to be fabulous. the other side of it's breeding is I think Shaab.
I'm hoping to get in now before it does well eventing and the stud fees go up!
We used Matinee on full sisters and one produced Jacques, who is proving to be fabulous. the other side of it's breeding is I think Shaab.
I'm hoping to get in now before it does well eventing and the stud fees go up!
southsidestud
Well-Known Member
i used a stallion called "Why Me" He hasnt got anything on the ground it was his first season covering, my mare was the 1st to be covered(2 virgins together) LOL i dont have a problem with it i choose him as i like his blood lines and him as a young stallion i wanted to use localish stallions as they were maiden mares didnt want to use chilled~frozen semen first time next year im going to use european stallions with these mares plus he had a slight introductry fee
britishwarmblood
Well-Known Member
I don't have a problem using 'first timers'.
As has been said by many above, someone has to be first. If you do your homework regarding bloodlines (and cross fingers very hard!!) you may just be the one who ends up slightly ahead of the game
I have used both Wild At Heart and Rhondeo in their first covering season and also Daddy Cool in his second season, but before he had any foals on the ground, and have been pleased with all the resulting foals.
If it all goes to plan, you often end up with a foal that is more saleable just because you haven't followed the herd and have a youngster that is slightly more interesting than the rest of the foal crop that year.
As has been said by many above, someone has to be first. If you do your homework regarding bloodlines (and cross fingers very hard!!) you may just be the one who ends up slightly ahead of the game
I have used both Wild At Heart and Rhondeo in their first covering season and also Daddy Cool in his second season, but before he had any foals on the ground, and have been pleased with all the resulting foals.
If it all goes to plan, you often end up with a foal that is more saleable just because you haven't followed the herd and have a youngster that is slightly more interesting than the rest of the foal crop that year.
catza
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!!
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I did too! i'm using Zurich (Eurocommerce Berlin x Concorde) on my nimmerdor x uppercut mare. He won the jumping section at den bosche this year and i'm hoping he will suit my mare who has had foals previously and i have more of an idea on what she throws, although its still all a gamble isn't it! i am playing it safe with my maiden mare and using the flemmingh semen i still have, really like the ferro x flemmingh cross
With my flemmingh mare i will prob be using jazz next time, again an established cross but foalie will be sold so i generally go with more marketable bloodlines for this reason.
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!!
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I did too! i'm using Zurich (Eurocommerce Berlin x Concorde) on my nimmerdor x uppercut mare. He won the jumping section at den bosche this year and i'm hoping he will suit my mare who has had foals previously and i have more of an idea on what she throws, although its still all a gamble isn't it! i am playing it safe with my maiden mare and using the flemmingh semen i still have, really like the ferro x flemmingh cross
springfallstud
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!! we would also have to say yes, and we have a mare in foal to San Amour (Sandro Hit x Plaisir d'A'mour) who's first years foals will be 2008. We also used Rhondeo (Rhotspon x Brentano II) in his first year.
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How exciting i also have a mare in foal to San Amour
Used Hotline this year first crop, i have a Don Ricoss filly on the ground now, as Volatis said it his his 2nd season and have 2 mares in foal to him next year. Am looking at a few Oldenburgs for next year, one of them is un named still.
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!! we would also have to say yes, and we have a mare in foal to San Amour (Sandro Hit x Plaisir d'A'mour) who's first years foals will be 2008. We also used Rhondeo (Rhotspon x Brentano II) in his first year.
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How exciting i also have a mare in foal to San Amour
htobago
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!!
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Sorry - my first-season stallion that I mentioned lots of breeders have used (most popular 1st-season Arab in the UK!) is H Tobago!
Arabs don't have gradings so breeders mainly go on show results (as well as their own judgement, of course) and pedigree when considering young stallions.
As well as naming them, could people maybe post some pics of the young/unproven stallions they are using? Just so we can get an idea of your choices and why they appealed to you?
Here is Tobago:
you're all saying yes, but no one has said who!!!
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Sorry - my first-season stallion that I mentioned lots of breeders have used (most popular 1st-season Arab in the UK!) is H Tobago!
Arabs don't have gradings so breeders mainly go on show results (as well as their own judgement, of course) and pedigree when considering young stallions.
As well as naming them, could people maybe post some pics of the young/unproven stallions they are using? Just so we can get an idea of your choices and why they appealed to you?
Here is Tobago:
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
Sorry as well. I have used a 3yr old Brendons stallion called El Thuder who has Argentinus/Ladykiller/Gotthard bloodlines on my 2 mares one of which is having her first foal; she is a 16.3 WB by Beachtime (Beach Boy) and so I thought the Argentinus cross would be nice - Arko is by Argentinus and out of a Beach Boy mare and the Ladykiller lines are a bonus... The other is having her 2nd foal (first with me) and she is a 15.2 coloured Welsh D X.
nijinsky
Well-Known Member
My mare is booked in to the young stallion Future Illusion for 2008.
He is stunning, athletic, well conformed and has a really good temperament, great bloodlines and IMO was the most suited to compliment my mare. I sincerely believe this is a top stallion for the future:
He is stunning, athletic, well conformed and has a really good temperament, great bloodlines and IMO was the most suited to compliment my mare. I sincerely believe this is a top stallion for the future:
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
I was really keen on Future Illusion and really would LOVE to use him on one of my mare; HOWEVER his dam line worries me as I had had experience with the bloodline and a lot of the progeny from taht line are VERY sharp and so couple with the sharpness of Fleetwater Opposition on his sire side I do worry that whilst his temp is fab, that he may throw the temp of some of his predecessors. I totally agree though that he is one for the future talent wise and well we'll have to see how the progeny turn out as I would love to use him if things turned out ok.
nijinsky
Well-Known Member
I've known him since he was a baby and doesn't seem to have a bad bone in his body - he has 3 babies on the ground, you could check them out. His dam has a great temperament, and the babies are unbelievably easy going, a lot of this "sharpness" is , I believe, how you educate & bring them up. Yes, on paper it would possibly look that way but it certainly wouldn't stop me using him. I have no doubt he will go a long way.
eventrider23
Well-Known Member
I have no doubt he will either Nijinky and I honestly think he is a stunning and talented horse but I know his mum's half sister (same sire) and she was a quirky !"£$%^&, even with the perfect upbringing. Incredibly talented and could have gone wherever she put her mind too but retired at 8 as became unmanageable. Know of her sister and she too retired from work pretty young (think her owner is on the H&H forum too) and from all account The Outlaw was a pretty wild character and was gelded because of it.
If I had the 'right' mare with a VERY calm and chilled temperament then I think i would love to try him but of my two 'suitable' mare's, one is quite stressy and the other is a stroppy old witch and so I don't know if I would want to couple them with his potentially temperamental lineage. He is still a young boy and if he carries on the way he's going I am certain the world will be his oyster as he's being produced so well, etc. but I know that the family of his that I know were adorable to handle at all times and great to ride initially but as soon as pressure started being put on them to perform at a higher (Int/Adv) level their quirky side started appearing and so IMO I would like to see how he performs himself as he grows on, esp considering that his mum never competed through injury and so was never tested tempermentally at a high pressure level if you know what I mean.....
If I had the 'right' mare with a VERY calm and chilled temperament then I think i would love to try him but of my two 'suitable' mare's, one is quite stressy and the other is a stroppy old witch and so I don't know if I would want to couple them with his potentially temperamental lineage. He is still a young boy and if he carries on the way he's going I am certain the world will be his oyster as he's being produced so well, etc. but I know that the family of his that I know were adorable to handle at all times and great to ride initially but as soon as pressure started being put on them to perform at a higher (Int/Adv) level their quirky side started appearing and so IMO I would like to see how he performs himself as he grows on, esp considering that his mum never competed through injury and so was never tested tempermentally at a high pressure level if you know what I mean.....
nijinsky
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know what you mean. My mare's quite a cool cookie and she has a fab temperament too, she can be naughty, and can be very naughty but I'm pretty confident I am making a good decision, well, watch this space, hopefully I will have a super foal to show off but it's a long way off yet.