New to Horses and could do with some behavioural assistance

BoxCleva said:
I am Nr Oswestry.
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Ahhh I bit far to be able to be a regular thing. I have a 5 year old ex-racer TB at the moment and it really is make or break, if you give an inch they will take a mile!
This has probably been suggested, but could you advertise for an experienced sharer? But in this circumstances I wouldn't be asking the sharer for money, and depending on experience possibly paying them a little as they're effectively training for you :)
 
How about mollichop & calm and condition ?

Would the calm and condition help put the weight on without making him more difficult ?
 
I echo what everyone else has said re Welsh Section D's and 4 year-olds (I suspect he is five next spring?) Not what you would immediately recommend for a novice starter-horse. Also, the food chopping and changing and what he is getting may have a massive amount to do with the behaviour changes.

If feed HAS to be given, could it be fed in isolation, so there are no perceived threats? It's an excellent suggestion to have it in the box and him being allowed to eat in complete peace. This IMO is not 'giving in' but accommodating a deep-rooted issue. Maybe feed a few hand treats (carrot) before he enters his box and is left to eat in complete quiet.

Riding and handling needs to be good and consistent. Welsh D's are usually sharp and intelligent and need reasonably experienced handling and lots of horses change their behaviour slightly at this time of year anyway.

You need sensible help and a good trainer, and yes, make sure his tack is fitting him correctly. I think good dog owners can apply lots of what they do, to horse management - in terms of understanding behaviour, but getting an insight into the horse's mind is always worth doing. Sometimes, it's a minor change here and there and you see a world of difference.



You have made a good move coming on here. Some might add a brave one, too, given the circumstances. Let's just wait and see on that one ;)
 
As everyone else has said and please get the saddle checked by a master saddler not a saddle filter as if he has rolled with it on its quite probably broken the tree. If so the horse will be in pain.
 
If you say he's now in 24/7 I suspect this may be the bigger problem. If he had changed from being out 24/7 to being stables 24/7 then this will have a significant impact on his behaviour. Ideally try to arrange some daily turn out, even if its only a couple of hours to help keep him sane. My boy has changed from 24/7 turnout in summer to daily turnout in winter for the last ten years but he still spends the first two weeks he's in being a bit bargy and rude. Sometimes the change is enough. Be firm and consistent and try to ensure his feed is srayjng the same. Hope that helps
 
BoxCleva said:
Hi Guys,
Thanks again for all the replies. There are some really interesting points raised.

I am Nr Oswestry.

He didn't have access to hay during the day as he was turned out and the field really didn't have much in the way of grass on it. He was brought in to the stables for his evening meal and then turned out again after he had finished. We had considered feeding him in the field but with previous conflict over food with other horses we decided against it.
As of this week he is now stabled 24/7.

Since being stabled this week he has a bowl of food in the morning and evening and a hay net at the same time. As part of our livery cost the yard supply the food. This food has changed 3 times in 5 weeks.I'm assuming due to what they have in stock at the time.

I am considering sourcing our own food so we can control type / quality etc. Does anyone have any suggestion as to what food would put weight on (steadily) without any hyper side effects. Would cutting out food altogether mean that he would lose weight ?

I will cut out the sugar beet and see how we go without it.


many thanks
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He's stabled 24/7? This is the last thing I'd be doing with a pony displaying the behaviour you describe. I'm with Littlelegs, cut out all hard feed and give good quality ad lib hay. Changing feeds because that's what's available is not good practise, I would not be happy with this at all!
It may be that he is just trying you all out, and his true character is coming to the fore. However, his management as you describe it will only exacerbate any issues.
 
brighteyes said:
I echo what everyone else has said re Welsh Section D's and 4 year-olds (I suspect he is five next spring?) Not what you would immediately recommend for a novice starter-horse. Also, the food chopping and changing and what he is getting may have a massive amount to do with the behaviour changes.

If feed HAS to be given, could it be fed in isolation, so there are no perceived threats? It's an excellent suggestion to have it in the box and him being allowed to eat in complete peace. This IMO is not 'giving in' but accommodating a deep-rooted issue. Maybe feed a few hand treats (carrot) before he enters his box and is left to eat in complete quiet.

Riding and handling needs to be good and consistent. Welsh D's are usually sharp and intelligent and need reasonably experienced handling and lots of horses change their behaviour slightly at this time of year anyway.

You need sensible help and a good trainer, and yes, make sure his tack is fitting him correctly. I think good dog owners can apply lots of what they do, to horse management - in terms of understanding behaviour, but getting an insight into the horse's mind is always worth doing. Sometimes, it's a minor change here and there and you see a world of difference.



You have made a good move coming on here. Some might add a brave one, too, given the circumstances. Let's just wait and see on that one ;)
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Thanks, I appreciate and what you are saying certainly seems to make sense. We took advice from a couple of people who thought the horse would be ideal. The bottom line is we have him now and I'm not giving up on him (I know you weren't suggesting I should ;) ) .

He's going to be hard work, I think we have resigned ourselves to that inevitability.



Kaylum said:
As everyone else has said and please get the saddle checked by a master saddler not a saddle filter as if he has rolled with it on its quite probably broken the tree. If so the horse will be in pain.
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As per my previous post, he is pretty well behaved when ridden and has never rolled wearing a saddle. His issue is when he is being led with a headcollar and his general boisterousness when without any tack at all.


murphysmummy said:
If you say he's now in 24/7 I suspect this may be the bigger problem. If he had changed from being out 24/7 to being stables 24/7 then this will have a significant impact on his behaviour. Ideally try to arrange some daily turn out, even if its only a couple of hours to help keep him sane. My boy has changed from 24/7 turnout in summer to daily turnout in winter for the last ten years but he still spends the first two weeks he's in being a bit bargy and rude. Sometimes the change is enough. Be firm and consistent and try to ensure his feed is srayjng the same. Hope that helps
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My apologies, my choice of wording could have been an awful lot better. He does come out for short walks and he is being ridden as we speak.What I meant is that rather than being out 24/7 (other than for his evening meal) he is now stabled. He has only been stabled from Wednesday this week. His declining behaviour started before that.

Your food comment makes perfect sense and I will address that ASAP.


Many thanks for the feedback :)
 
His food may be playing a part but I suspect being kept in his stable 24/7 might be having more of an impact. Is this a temporary thing or is it because of winter weather, is it your decision or the yards? Like a child he needs space to run around and let off steam with his friends. If he doesn't get this he may be releasing his extra energy when being handled by your daughter. If your current yard doesn't offer some sort of turn out in the winter I'd think seriously about finding somewhere else to keep him.
 
Sorry posted before I saw your reply that his behaviour started before the turn out reduced. I would still try and address this so he can burn off his energy well away from your daughter. A good instructor to give your daughter some hints and tips on handling him day to day might be helpful (not necessarily ridden lessons). In my opinion it's the very small things that keep good behaviour (as mentioned above, moving over for you in the stable, standing still willingly to be groomed, leading nicely at your shoulder, etc.) If someone with more experience can show her how to make monor corrections to how he behaves it might really help.
 
Hi,
he was brought in for a couple of reasons.
He sustained a small skin graze to a front leg so he was in for a couple of days for that to scab over, which it did. We then turned him back out but after a couple of days he'd pulled the scab off, so I decided to bring him back in until it healed over again. The second reason is my ignorance. And after reading your comments, once his leg has scabbed over he's off out again ;)
 
Agree with Patterdale - the horse NEEDS turn out. If he only gets to buck and roll when with your daughter, well, he'll buck and roll with your daughter.

Horses, as with hens, aren't in general suited to 'battery' type conditions. Too much energy/stress, not enough freedom of movement.

In rural Wales you should be able to move to a yard with winter turn out if the current one doesn't have it.
 
IMO I wouldn't wait for the graze to heal, you can get some great thick grease based anticeptic creams (Green oils is my personal favorite) that you can put on nice and thick which will keep the mud/ flys etc. off and allow him to get out asap.
You might find if he's kept in for a while when he does go out he runs around for a while and causes an injury worse than the one he was in for in the first place (as he'll have a lot of built up energy) at least mine have done that to me more than once anyway! I therefore turnout unless my vet expressly says otherwise.
 
No turn out... At all... :eek:

In my opinion, he is 4, he needs time to mature, spend time with with other horses to lean from, etc etc. if you are at a yard with no turn out then it may be advisable to seek alternative livery.

The handling issues need addressing, but IMO they will probably be made worse with no turn out and will be counter productive. I do think you should get a trainer to work with pony and daughter.

And just food for thought switzerland have passed legislation stating that all horses should have daily turnout, with other horses... Can't remember where I read this (was something to do with Totilas owners being prosecuted about this and also rolkur use.)

I don't mean to question your methods, just sharing my views :)
 
Gentlegiant88 said:
No turn out... At all... :eek:

In my opinion, he is 4, he needs time to mature, spend time with with other horses to lean from, etc etc. if you are at a yard with no turn out then it may be advisable to seek alternative livery.

The handling issues need addressing, but IMO they will probably be made worse with no turn out and will be counter productive. I do think you should get a trainer to work with pony and daughter.

And just food for thought switzerland have passed legislation stating that all horses should have daily turnout, with other horses... Can't remember where I read this (was something to do with Totilas owners being prosecuted about this and also rolkur use.)

I don't mean to question your methods, just sharing my views :)
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As stated in my earlier post he has only been stabled for 4 days. He will be turned out asap.

I am more than happy to have my methods questioned as I am very much a novice :rolleyes:
 
Welsh D's have been described as thoroughbreds in a cob body, only not as sensitive!

I wouldn't keep him in for a grazed leg - it will heal whether he's in or out and being in means he storing up excess energy and getting bored, (and posssibly plotting his next evil move!:D)

He's a native breed and they have evolved to live on poor grazing and thin air. They also wander long distances looking for food so get plenty of excercise, certainly sugar would never come into the diet, so I would cut out the sugar beet or indeed any hard feed, no sugary treats like polos, apples, carrots etc, he doesn't need it. If you have to feed anything use something like speedibeet or fast fibre and use a powedered multivitimin in it like Global Herbs "Globalvite".

Hay rather than haylage as haylage can be like rocket fuel for some ponies.

Good luck!
 
My friend has a section d and we're teaching him manners at mo as he loves a barge, a bite, no idea of personal space and newest trick, jumped out of his stable. We've been using my dually halter which applys the pressure/ release rule. They're great!!
 
BoxCleva said:
As stated in my earlier post he has only been stabled for 4 days. He will be turned out asap.

I am more than happy to have my methods questioned as I am very much a novice :rolleyes:
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Sorry, I only read the posts saying it had been for 4 days after I'd posted the last post.

Box resting with injury is sometimes needed, although I only box rest if there is an absolute need, but that's mine and my horses preference (he breaks out of his stable anyway and can remove a kick bolt... He needs clipping in :rolleyes: )

And I didn't mean to question your methods, more to highlight the need for turnout, especially in a young horse who is already displaying a tendency to be bolshy.

On the Swiss issue, here's where I read the Totalis story, just for an interesting read http://www.eurodressage.com/equestr...nch-peta-files-charges-against-totilas-owners

Glad to hear pony will be getting some time out tho, I tend to look at it as would I like to be locked in my bedroom all day and night, only being able to leave once or twice for a quick walk and having my dinner delivered. When I look at it like this I find it easy to see why horses get nappy when permanently stabled. Hell I know I'd be nappy if that was the case!
 
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