New ultra laid back horse no longer ultra laid back :(

[wilkinson1]

I wonder if I could have any advice please as my nerves are taking over and I struggling to be rational about my situation

I spent a very traumatic year looking for a new horse and just as I was about to give up, I found a lovely quiet (almost horizontal he was so laid back) all-rounder/hunter who was a tad bigger than I wanted at 16.2 but because he was so quiet it didn't really matter. He was utterly perfect at viewings and passed a 5* vetting. Vet commented how lovely he was and would make an ideal police horse. Owners were selling as he basically didnt have enough about him for the job they needed him to do.

He was perfect for me, a proper kick along with manners to burn. I couldn't wait to get him home and at last felt like I had found the one.

The first 10 days - 2 weeks he was lovely. Chilled out on the ground and to ride, respectful, nice to handle. Around the 2 week mark, he started to become a bit 'looky' at things (both ridden and on the ground). Examples are seeing something in the trees opposite his stable and growing a couple of hh and rushing back and forth to the door to look, being utterly terrified of a new large water bucket in his field (as he kept tipping over the trug style buckets) - he still wont drink from it, being spooky to lead (being very alert and jumpy at things), being spooky out hacking (Is totally happy to go out hacking alone or in company and seems to enjoy it, just is looking at things more now). At first I thought this behaviour was just him settling in (although surely he would have been like it from the start if he was struggling to settle?) but it just doesn't seem to be settling. He will have days where he is better but he just seems so much more alert/on edge than he was at his previous home. I have had him just over 4 weeks now. Surely he should be settling by now?

I spoke to his old owner to get some insight and she said she was very surprised as they couldn't get him to liven up at all - that was the only reason they were selling as they wanted something with a bit more about it. They said he was never bothered about anything remotely when with them (they had him for just over a year fresh from Ireland). Ironically one of the things that I honed in on at the viewing was that he settled perfectly when they first got him as if he had always been there.

I am really battling with my confidence now and am getting quite emotional about it as I have been looking forward to this for so long and it feel like it has all gone wrong. I am having a weekly lesson with an on site instructor which really helps, but since he started worrying, the next day the nerves come back. I got my instructor to come with me and watch me handle him from the field, getting ready etc and he behaved fine. Was that just a good day or was it because I was more confident as had my instructor there? I am fully aware I have to be the leader and not show my nerves, but I am adamant that I wasn't showing any nerves at the point where he started worrying about things - I was really enjoying the whole experience and thought we were getting on great.

Anyway, I am hoping he settles back down and goes back to being the chilled out calm horse that I bought or am I being unrealistic? I spent a fortune on finding and buying a horse that was so quiet as I knew that was what I needed and I really don't think my nerves can cope with a jumpy horse

What am I hoping to get from this post? I guess I am hoping for some reassurance or ideas as to why he is doing this and if we will be able to get through it with my nerves as they are. Or is it a move yard situation? Could he just not be settling in the environment? Or is it just not going to work? I honestly don't think he is a silly horse by nature, he really is kind and seems genuine, he just is very on edge.

Thanks for any help/advice/tips x

 

[pippixox]

is your yard a similar set up to the previous owners yard? I know he settled right away with them, but some horses pick up on the vibe of certain yards and chill, and are not as chilled at others.... not meaning to sound 'alternative' with using the term 'vibe'!: but for example at my yard- numerous horses who used to be very stressed have completely chilled out- my friends mare who she struggled to hack out alone years ago, will hack out on the common, she also used to pace when turned out, but now lives out in the summer.


Also- I know lots of people talk about horses being fresh in the spring- but recently my new forest pony and my knapstrupper mare, who are both normally very chilled, have been sprightly! My mare was a nutter to hack out a few days ago- jogging and bronking, when normally she is lazy! So I think july grass is making them silly!

 

[pippixox]

also has his diet changed at all? some horses are sensitive to alfalfa or sugar or even haylage

 

[be positive]

What has changed since the first two weeks, has anything possibly happened not necessarily directly to him or the yard but something in the woods where he looks, is he living alone rather than with others, by alone I mean on individual turnout, have you started feeding him or not feeding him something he is used to, what type of yard was he on before, there are some horses that just don't settle in some yards and looking at the questions above may help you work out why he has changed and whether you need to move to somewhere different.

It doesn't sound like normal behaviour if he really was laid back something is stressing him and if you can find out what it is and remove him or it you should get the horse you bought back, that is assuming the sellers were genuine and that the first two weeks were the horse you bought.

 

[wingedhorse]

Things I’d suggest. Put a good grab strap / oversized breastplate / R-Stor on saddle. Will give you confidence.

Have you changed his diet or workload from old home?

More grass sugar / less turnout / less work / different turnout e.g. group or solo or mixed sex?

Is he getting enough sodium and magnesium in his diet – too little can make spooky.

Is he intolerant to something you are feeding him? Alfa / sugar / grain / other?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

It can take a lot longer than 4wks to settle. I had one that took 6mths to relax and if it hadn't already been mine for many years before the yard move, I'd have assumed it was doped before, such was the change in behaviour. If your horse is stressed some more work and extra turnout might help.

Find out what the daily routine was at the last yard, what feed in what quantities (including how much grass was in the fields, hay/haylage, brands of feed), how much turnout, how often ridden and for how long and doing what, did horse compete and how often? doing what?, rugged? and what types/weights. All this can help you ensure it's not a simple case of being over fed and under worked.

Your nerves will certainly be affecting things. As you're struggling at the moment is it possible to pay yard staff to turn out and bring in for you, so you don't need to be handling him at all on days where you don't feel upto dealing with him. The trick is to have only good/confident experiences together, to get to know each other without either of you losing faith in the other. If you're more confident with an instructor around, can you join a riding club for extra lessons and hack with other quiet horses/sensible riders, anything that will help to give you a good riding experience. I know it can seem expensive, but it's not as expensive as losing your confidence and having to sell the horse as an unfit, nervous wreck at a huge financial loss.

 

[Kezzabell2]

I'm thinking that maybe he's realised that you're not as confident as the previous owner (bearing in mind they were in to hunting, they probably had nerves of steel, so I'm not trying to put you down) he would have felt very secure and confident because that is how the rider felt!! but now he's with someone that isn't as confident and he doesn't have the support he once had, which might be leading to him feeling a bit jumpy!! and that's fine!! I'd say when I first ride a new horse I feel really nervous, because I don't know how its going to react in some situations. but I'm sure over time you will get there with your confidence!!

Perhaps for the time being, stick to hacking out in company, with a well behaved horse, so that you can get to trust him a lot more and once you've been doing that and your lessons for a few months, start hacking alone again.

 

[9tails]

As said above, look at what has changed. Does he have company? Has his feed been changed? Are you on different grazing to what he's used to? Is he stabled overnight when having been out 24/7 or vice versa?

 

[BlackVelvet]

Is he picking up your nerves? Some horses can be funny if they pick up on these things

Has something upset him on the yard?

My horse would get spooky when the grass came through, he was normally extremely laid back but as soon as the grass came out I knew I would end up hitting the deck

 

[stormox]

Whats he like to ride OP? Has the behaviour changed when riding -hacking and/or schooling - or is it just in the stable and field? Is he getting less riding than at his old home? Maybe he's feeling fresh if he is not getting as much and this is causing the spooky behaviour.

 

[tatty_v]

My horse was a dope on a rope when I tried him, perfectly well behaved at the vetting. Got him him home and for the first 24 hours he was fine, then he became difficult. I may be anthropomorphising, but I wondered if for the initial period he just 'coped' with the change (almost shut down) and then the behaviour started when he got over that. It took him a good 6 months to settle down. The key was firmness, consistency and not showing your nerves. Also, not taking it personally! I was lucky as it is a large yard with lots of kind, experienced people and my husband is great handling horses so dealt with him for me when I couldn't. Two years down the line and we have a fab relationship and he's very much the settled chap I tried, although a bit fitter! So I guess I'm saying chin up, keep your handling firm and consistent, keep him well exercised so he's not too fresh, don't feed him too much and see if he settles down. If not, as the other posters have mentioned, it may be that the new yard set-up doesn't suit him, but I think it's probably too early to tell that yet. I'm sure things will get better soon x

 

[FfionWinnie]

I'm afraid I think it's you. I know this because I bought the bombproof school master showjumper 6 months ago and have had similar!

Also he's now got his feet under the table.

Be strict with him at all times when you are handling him.

Work him more.

Feed him less.

Assess what you are doing differently to the owner and change it back. (Such as mine is on 24/7 turnout but he is on his own until such a time I can cope with him missing his new pals etc - 17hh and the trailer was getting a kicking for instance!)

Don't be hard on yourself.

Get someone else who is very confident to also ride him so you see he's actually fine.

Mine had led a solitary and nearly always stabled life and me giving him friends and freedom made him a right thug at times (always fine under saddle tho). You'll get there.

 

[JillA]

I also suspect it is something to do with how you are handling him, an experienced 2nd pair of eyes can be very useful. If there is someone on this list in your area, give them a call http://www.intelligenthorsemanship.co.uk/recommended-trainers/
Not only will they be able to interpret body language (your and his) but they will be able to give you some ground work exercises to establish a better relationship. Most are not horrendously expensive.

And it is possible your grazing is short of magnesium, which may not have been the case where he came from. Adding a spoonful of magnesium oxide to his feed for a couple of weeks will reveal whether or not that is the problem.

 

[wilkinson1]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate you taking the time to post. So, he lived in a small private yard with just 2 other mares. They were in individual paddocks. He hunted once or twice a week through last winter then did some schooling and hacking between april and june when I bought him. He went out to a couple of dressage tests and hunter trials. His owner has 2 x other event horses and so he was the 'back up'. It was very relaxed and quiet at the yard and he could see the fields and arena from his stable and vice versa. They said that he could be left for weeks without being ridden and never change (and to be honest, looking at his lack of topline I believe that he will have been left for weeks without riding but then got in and taken off to a dressage clinic or hunter trial etc). He was completely and utterly chilled out and lovely. He was only fed basic H&P nuts and a bit of chaff although they said they could have fed him a tonne of oats and it wouldn't change him (in fact I think they said they did try it as they needed to liven him up but it didnt make any difference). He lived mainly out, came in if needed but otherwise didnt really have much of a routine. Since coming home, he lives out 24/7 currently, in an individual paddock with several horses around him. The stables are a bit of a distance away and he cant see others when in but he doesn't seem to really mind that, he certainly doesn't call or get silly in that way. I am barely feeding him - I literally give him a handful of H&P nuts after he has been ridden. I was giving him a carrot when I arrived but he has become a bit 'in my face' now (again, not like the horse I tried) and so I have stopped. He just gets a handful of nuts when ridden or when I leave. I have been riding him 5 days per week - 3 days hacking and 2 days in the school, so I believe he is probably being ridden a bit more than previous. I am a tad worried to ride him less than that at the moment although I specifically went out to buy a horse that I could pick up and put down as I have kids and a business.

Its actually not even so much the riding, its the handling that has knocked me. He is generally pretty good ridden, just a little spookier than he was. Its on the ground that he seems to have changed, just nowhere near as relaxed as he was when I tried him and in the 1st week or so - in field or stable. I will message his old owner though and ask her to give me a step by step of his old routine in case there is something I have missed.

I don't believe anything has happened at the yard to unsettle him as such, all the others seem fine also.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Sounds exactly like mine. Just be strict. I'm getting to the other side of it now and starting to enjoy him. He did however jump a field gate the other day (perks of buying a 1.40m SJer lol). Also like yours mine was ok to begin with. It was once I had had him a while he started to be a thug. Which considering I usually buy thugs and turn them into nice horses, this time apparently I bought a nice horse and turned it into a thug!

 

[Louby]

Hi, sorry to hear you are struggling with your new horse. I had a similar experience with a horse I bought because my nerves had been shot at by a previous mistake buy! He was perfect, bold and brave and although he wasnt my type, I just felt so safe on him. He arrived and settled immediately but I was met by a totally stressed out horse the following morning, so much so I had to chuck him out 24/7 as he would have injured himself if left in the stable. He was hard work, I couldnt safely pick his feet out, groom him and the farrier was omg what have you bought. I'd had my name down on a yard and a place came up 2 weeks later, not ideal I know for a horse so unsettled but I went for it and he calmed down within days. It was a biusier bigger yard, horses were in more of a routine and it was happy days. Then about 6 weeks later he started playing up in the school, I actually thought something was physically wrong with him. I had been in contact with his old owner and she came to ride him for me, basically she got after him and rode him through his naughtiness. I really do believe he had found his feet and thought sod this lol. After that I put my brave pants on and was more positive with my riding if I felt him start to back off and he never did it again. He was a fab horse and did give me my confidence back.
As the others have said, is the yard a lot different than his old one, have you changed his feed, routine, workload. Des your saddle fit? May sound daft but it can cause issues. Please try and get some help sooner than later as it is very hard to rebuild confidence once it starts to go. Really hope you get back on track with him soon.

 

[wilkinson1]

Thank you. I need to put my brave pants on and get stricter. I know I have been playing nicey nicey with him as he was new and I wanted him to get to know me but I must admit he does seem to respond well when I am firm with him.

I have had a new saddle fitted to him, I have had the farrier, I have had a physio (who said his pelvis was slightly out but no real issues and that was only a couple of days ago and he hasn't changed since then..). My instructor thinks he is lovely but that you have to be black and white with horses and I need to be firm and consistent at all times. Does this mean that it will always be this way or is this just whilst we build up a relationship and get going? I specifically wanted a horse that I could have my kids around, go for chilled out hacks in the country and generally be able to take anywhere on my own easily. (And that was the horse I thought I had bought!).

 

[atropa]

I had a similar experience with one of mine, even down to someone else believing she'd make a great police horse. She had a total personality switch overnight (became spooky, girthy, slightly aggressive when picking up feet and grooming) and is only just now starting to come round after several months and a grand or two worth of vet investigations as I was convinced it was pain behaviour.
Never did really get to the bottom of it, but suspect it might have been a combination of her filling out a lot after she came to me, me losing my nerve and her just trying her luck.

 

[be positive]

Is he looking better in himself? My thoughts following your recent post is that they never got him fit enough to hunt properly and that pulled him down making him very quiet, I certainly wouldn't expect a well conditioned hunter to drop all of it's topline by the end of the season and not pick up over a couple of months on good grass doing very little especially if they considered him to be a good doer, so it may be having better grass and regular exercise that has changed him.
It doesn't sound as if the old owners will be much help as they had no routine so I would get someone in to assess him on the ground and help you get back on track, it may just be a matter of getting a control halter and taking charge to get him back to where he was, try adding magnesium to his diet as a lack can cause spookiness and it is any easy thing to try, above all don't beat yourself up over it many horses change when they move however careful you are, you never know their whole life story or how they will react to different situations.

 

[wilkinson1]

That's reassuring to hear that yours is coming right eventually. Mine couldn't be bothered to jump a gate without being chased over it (and that's what I loved about him and want back - the 'cant be bothered to misbehave') x

 

[wilkinson1]

Is he looking better in himself? My thoughts following your recent post is that they never got him fit enough to hunt properly and that pulled him down making him very quiet, I certainly wouldn't expect a well conditioned hunter to drop all of it's topline by the end of the season and not pick up over a couple of months on good grass doing very little especially if they considered him to be a good doer, so it may be having better grass and regular exercise that has changed him.
It doesn't sound as if the old owners will be much help as they had no routine so I would get someone in to assess him on the ground and help you get back on track, it may just be a matter of getting a control halter and taking charge to get him back to where he was, try adding magnesium to his diet as a lack can cause spookiness and it is any easy thing to try, above all don't beat yourself up over it many horses change when they move however careful you are, you never know their whole life story or how they will react to different situations.

That's a fair point - he may never have been fit enough to do the hunting in the first place. Although I am not working him particularly hard, in our schooling sessions I only do about 20 mins max as I am asking him to work properly and he tires quickly. He doesn't look much different to look at to be honest.

 

[wilkinson1]

I had a similar experience with one of mine, even down to someone else believing she'd make a great police horse. She had a total personality switch overnight (became spooky, girthy, slightly aggressive when picking up feet and grooming) and is only just now starting to come round after several months and a grand or two worth of vet investigations as I was convinced it was pain behaviour.
Never did really get to the bottom of it, but suspect it might have been a combination of her filling out a lot after she came to me, me losing my nerve and her just trying her luck.

Thank you, its just so disappointing that I spent a year looking for a horse I felt truly safe on and then find it and this happens. I can see I need to become more firm.

 

[Flicker]

What's his routine like? I always find that getting horses into a very strict routine gives them security. That's one of the reasons why I choose part livery, because all the horses get fed and turned out at the same time each day, then brought in and fed at the same time each evening. They seem more settled than some of the DIY horses on the yard, whose routine depends on when the owner can be bothered to get out of bed. (I'm not casting aspersions on DIY owners, btw, I used to be one myself. Just owners who think it is ok to leave their horse stood in until midday because they were out on the lash the night before).

 

[KittenInTheTree]

I would stop feeding him the nuts. Even a handful could be enough to cause issues if he's intolerant to something in them. One of mine turns into an utter horror if he gets pony nuts - seriously vile behaviour all round, it's like he's a different horse!

 

[Mule]

I have read the other replies and I just thought of something. When you do make changes to his current routine to try to see if he will revert to his previous behaviour it's important only to change one thing at a time. For example you could stop giving hard feed and you could give him magnesium but don't do both at the same time. You will have no way of knowing what change has worked or hasn't worked if you change multiple things at the same time.
Try not to let it get you down. Good luck.

 

[wilkinson1]

What's his routine like? I always find that getting horses into a very strict routine gives them security. That's one of the reasons why I choose part livery, because all the horses get fed and turned out at the same time each day, then brought in and fed at the same time each evening. They seem more settled than some of the DIY horses on the yard, whose routine depends on when the owner can be bothered to get out of bed. (I'm not casting aspersions on DIY owners, btw, I used to be one myself. Just owners who think it is ok to leave their horse stood in until midday because they were out on the lash the night before).

He is currently out 24/7 and I go up morning and evening to check him, water, poo pick etc. I go up mornings usually to ride, although sometimes I ride in the evening. Ultimately though he is never without food, water or horses around. I would love to be on part livery and I am working on hubby x

 

[wilkinson1]

I have read the other replies and I just thought of something. When you do make changes to his current routine to try to see if he will revert to his previous behaviour it's important only to change one thing at a time. For example you could stop giving hard feed and you could give him magnesium but don't do both at the same time. You will have no way of knowing what change has worked or hasn't worked if you change multiple things at the same time.
Try not to let it get you down. Good luck.

Thank you, that's a good point. And I am desperately trying not to let it get me down but I have really got myself into a state about it I'm interested in the magnesium option so will look into that. x

 

[FinkleyAlex]

Does he see the other horses coming and and out regularly? I have a very sensitive 6yo - we've been on a variety of yards as I've had to move for work and uni etc. He doesn't do well on a livery yard unless it's small and a set routine. He is very stressy on a big yard - if he can see others going in and out etc. He's now at a friend's house with three others. They go out in pairs each day and he can watch the others being ridden or just in their stables from his own stable. This is the calmest I've seen him, and it's taken 4 weeks to get there. Some horses are just more sensitive than others - it sounds like yours hasn't settled yet.

 

[Clodagh]

Definitely the magnesium. If he is on the same nuts as before IMO us unlikely to be them. Magnesium is a cure all for me as it has a wonderful placebo effect as it has always worked, so I am always confident that it will do so.it is good stuff. Get decent quality one, my sensitive old boy had the naf one

 

[SEL]

I moved yards 10 days ago and for about 5 days my mare was really quiet. I was telling myself how great it was that she'd found somewhere where she could settle. I was wrong! She has turned into a stroppy, mad mannered thug. She's always been a bit tricky but I think (hope) this is all part of her settling in.

So I'm trying to keep it all consistent at the moment whilst hoping that I haven't undone 3 years of hard work. With yours it might just be the change of scenery too......