New Yard With No Turnout Causing Problems with My TB

Definately move yards - I hate the thought of horses being in 24/7. Even if they are ridden every day - that doesn't compensate for being able to be a horse, graze, play with their friends etc.

I'm sure as soon as you move she will start to settle again.

Before I got my pony he was on a yard where he had one hour of turnout a day - and it apparently used to take 2 people to get him out of his stable. He also used to weave violently and I'm sure that's why he is a stress head alot of the time now, and has back problems. He is now out in the day and in at night and perfectly happy. I'd leave him out 24/7 if we didn't have lush grazing!
 
Thanks everyone for all your comments! It's really helped to hear other people say that decent turnout is a must for horses. It's what I have always believed but I was starting to doubt myself because of the comments made to me by people at the new yard. I will tell them tomorrow that I am giving my notice and with what you have all said behind me I know I can argue my position with them should they be difficult about it or argue with me. I want my happy chilled out thoroughbred back again and I'm sure she will be back to her old self before long. I think that even if they say I have to give 1 months notice I'll just pay the stable rent & leave early
 
Spudlet said:
Good for you OP:)
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I second that! It makes me really sad to think that there are horses who never get turned out :(. I found a riding school/ livery yard right next to my university last week and although the yard was wonderful there was no way any of the horses got turn out because there just wasn't anywhere for them to go (it's in the middle of a capital city, so not exactly prime grazing land!). I wandered into one of the blocks to have a nosy at the horses and was greeted by 4 delighted lusitanos who looked like seeing me had just made their week! I can't imagine how bored they must get stuck in all the time (although, just to give you an idea of how posh this place was, they was classical music being played over speakers in the block!).
 
Its even more frustrating on yards where there are acres and acres of land but as soon as it rains the horses dont go out all day! I cannot understand this 'it will wreck the fields' mentality. With so much land, even if they do get a bit cut up they will quickly recover as they can be rested.
 
Have to agree with alot of whats being said, agree with Spudlet.

We have everything from my dads point to pointers to natives warmbloods the lot they would all be bonkers if they had no turnout.
I have several youngsters who i have no problem with ever i am sure this is because they have unlimited turnout, i really feel alot of the problems arise nowadays beacuse of the set up of livery yards.

Partly due to turnout and too much time in the school for exercise, move your horse let it live a more natural life and make your life easier and more pleasent.
It is not normal to keep horses in this way the same thing for a human would be unacceptable, you are only making your horse unhappy and life hard for yourself, i do have a couple of horses who wouldnt complain or play up if never had turnout this does not mean they would be happy with it just so well mannered they wouldnt complain.
I would be out of there so fast everyone would be coughing on the dust as i left.
 
Move her straight away. You are describing one very unhappy horse - not to mention an unhappy rider. I think yards that cannot offer turnout shouldn't be in business - it's totally unnatural to confine a horse in a box for 5?, 6?, months of the year. Get up and go. You'll be doing the right thing.
 
No turnout all winter would never be an option for me. I think it is borderline cruel and no wonder your horse is pissed off.

I for sure would be finding another yard as your horse sounds unhappy and so do you. I am not sure the breed really matters because I do not know too many equines of any breed that would sign up for that arrangement.
 
HashRouge said:
I second that! It makes me really sad to think that there are horses who never get turned out :(. I found a riding school/ livery yard right next to my university last week and although the yard was wonderful there was no way any of the horses got turn out because there just wasn't anywhere for them to go (it's in the middle of a capital city, so not exactly prime grazing land!). I wandered into one of the blocks to have a nosy at the horses and was greeted by 4 delighted lusitanos who looked like seeing me had just made their week! I can't imagine how bored they must get stuck in all the time (although, just to give you an idea of how posh this place was, they was classical music being played over speakers in the block!).
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which yard was this?
 
Spudlet said:
Even if you are riding for 2 or 3 hours a day, that still leaves 20-odd hours where your horse is basically locked in a box. Some horses will deal with that, but IMO that doesn't make it a good way to keep them. I would move asap, even if that means you lose some facilities like indoor schools etc.
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Competely agree with Spudlet. Turnout is the one thing I would never compromise on for the mental and physical wellbeing of the horse. And whilst some horses seems to deal with being cooped up why should they? Hope you can find something more suitable for you and your horse soon OP.
 
I've only ever known one private owner make no turnout work - her chap was prone to awful cracked heels so the only way they found to manage him was to keep him off mud entirely. The horse lived outside her back door as part of the human family, he had an enormous stable, she would take him out four or five times a day every day (half in hand and half under saddle, for at least an hour a time), and basically her life revolved around him - she didn't work herself. That particular horse thought it was great - he had his own personal minion at his beck and call all day long.

Even if you read the very old fashioned horse management books, when detailing full time stabling there are at least two or three exercise sessions built in to every day, and three thorough grooming sessions including an hour's strapping. The horses aren't left for hours on end. If you're going to do it, it's darned hard work because you have to personally replace everything that the horse would normally get from turnout - they'll walk at least 15 miles a day in the field spread over a 24 hour period.

Well done for listening to your horse. I know none of mine would tolerate the regime you've described for any length of time. Even the ones who do cope with being in would soon become grouchy on 15 mins exercise a day. Good luck with finding another yard.

ps I'm probably stating the obvious here, but until you leave, make sure you cut the hard feed right back. You don't want to add tying up to your problems. Make sure he always has hay, keep him filled up on as much fibre as you can pack into him, and go down as often as you can to get him out of his stable, even if it's just for a mooch in hand.
 
Spudlet said:
**Prepares to be controversial**

If a yard can't manage at least some turnout all year round, it means they have taken on more horses than the land can deal with.

**Runs and hides**
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I agree wholeheartedly. I think some livery owners have forgotten the old adage about 2 acres for the first horse and one for every subsequent horse. Too many people wanting to make too much money out of others. Yes, I do know that many livery owners don't make a fortune out of their customers but I do see far too many trying to make their money twice i.e. restricting grazing and selling hay.
 
bless you hunX there is nothing worse than being stuck somewhere where it makes you and your horse miserable.

as all of the others have suggested and you yourself have mentioned - move -

I agree with all of the comments made, and just to add when looking for a new yard look at the grazing, and the number of stables/liveries there, ask to look at the fields and do a quick head count this will tell you if it is well land managed or not! if there are too many for the grazing then walk away, as grazing is the most important thing, I am lucky I have 8 acres for 3, and its private and all mine (24hr turn out), and it should be 2.5 acres per horse (DEFRA), one acre to graze, one to rest, and half extra for poor growing conditions (ie. hot summer)!


good luck all the same and I hope you find somewhere more suitable for you and your hoss :)
 
Well said Esther, Spudlet, and lots of others.
Some horses cope with this regime, others look as if they are to human eyes but they aren't, they've shut down.
I took on a beautiful TB from the Blue Cross once, he was just stunning, but completely screwed up. He had gone to them as a normal riding horse whose owner was parting with him due to pregnancy. He was easily homed because he was just a normal riding horse. 6 months later they started to get letters from his loaner about his behaviour problems. She had taken him to the approved yard, which I believe had then gone on to no turnout. (Blue Cross won't home to a place that doesn't have proper turnout). When she'd started to have problems with him the loaner had moved him to a "training yard". With no turnout. When he started to lunge at people coming to the door (you can guess how that might have been dealt with) and show "aggressive" tendancies (ie fear aggression) they had cross tied him in the stable. Hours and hours of being cross tied so people could come and go safely.
Fast forward to Blue Cross removing him and him coming to me. First of all detachment from other horses, hiding away under a hedge. Then stallion behaviour, meaning things got dangerous. Then some very experienced help to get him in a trailer safely, to take us both away for some intensive training. 10 months later I had to let him go back to Blue Cross because I knew I'd never be safe out riding him. It broke my heart, when he was good he was so good, cuddly, beautifully schooled and stunning to look at. But when he was bad, for example if he decided he was too far from other horses, no obstacle would stand in his way. I've seen him run through barbed wire. He ended up being sent to a retirement home at 12 years old.
So, I know that's long but I wanted to share it. You are so doing the right thing listening to your horse. Get out asap.
 
xxMozlarxx said:
Its even more frustrating on yards where there are acres and acres of land but as soon as it rains the horses dont go out all day! I cannot understand this 'it will wreck the fields' mentality. With so much land, even if they do get a bit cut up they will quickly recover as they can be rested.
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Before I had my own land used to think like this too. We moved to a fabulous yard with 7 acres and 3 horses. I told my friend where I used to keep my horses that I had read up on field management and was going to rotate the fields throughout the year. She said 'you will end up with all your fields trashed and no grass for the summer'. I thought 'no way', as I would rotate and be resting at least two paddocks at a time and had more than two acres per horse. So, what happened? I did do my rotation for one year. The result? Seven acres of totally trashed paddocks and sparse grass the following summer! We are on clay soil by the way. My friend was right and I was wrong. Poached land does NOT recover by itself it has to be levelled, airated and reseeded and ferilized. It takes two years for the grass to be fit for grazing as the roots need to establish themselves and knit together. In addition, it is highly dangerous for horses to be out in muddy fields. I have had two horses break limbs that way and know of countless others. So there are very good reasons why yard owners do not allow turnout in wet weather.

However, I agree that it is cruel to keep horses without turnout at all. For that reason yards that cannot allow winter grazing should provide a suitable alternative. An all weather turnout is my preference (and solution) or at the very least a horse walker.
 
Pearlsasinger said:
I agree wholeheartedly. I think some livery owners have forgotten the old adage about 2 acres for the first horse and one for every subsequent horse. Too many people wanting to make too much money out of others. Yes, I do know that many livery owners don't make a fortune out of their customers but I do see far too many trying to make their money twice i.e. restricting grazing and selling hay.
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You actually need around 3 acres per horse for all year round turnout. If a yard only has one acre per horse, even if they allowed no grazing AT ALL, they would not be able to grow enough hay to sustain their own horses, let alone sell it.
 
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I am glad you have decided to leave.
Even if you can't find a yard with all the facilities and turn out, find somewhere with grass livery and buy your horse a decent rug. She'll be absolutely fine, living out with company and you'll be mush more relaxed. If you don't believe me go onto Lucinda McAlpine's website. Well, Lucinda wouldn't even buy a rug but I think that's going a bit far.

I had a friend whose horse was on a really flashy dressage yard with no turn-out. The result was her horse was out of his head with boredom (I think he dumped her every time she rode him) but she wouldn't move to a yard with turn-out, just because there was no indoor school!
 
With some exceptions obviously, horses need to get out and move around freely and have the companionship of others. A horsewalker won't cut it, nor will an hour's turnout in a small area alone.
 
Keeping a healthy horse in 24/7 is not good - especially for most horses in the UK. People might have got away with it back when horses were working in the fields 8 or 9 hours a day, but most people now school once a day and think it hard work. It isn't right - it's something done for human convenience, not with the best interests of the horse at heart.
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Agree with everything Spudlet and Tinypony have been saying. Horses NEED turnout and it's cruel to keep them in, unless the horse has a medical issue. I wonder how any responsible yard cannot provide ANY winter turnout. Unfortunately restricted winter turnout is all too common and I had to move my horse three times before finding a yard that actually delivered year round daily turnout, regardless of weather conditions.

Good luck with moving your horse, OP. Kudos to you for listening to your horse and doing the right thing!
 
The lack of winter turnout in South Essex is the main reason that I don't have a riding horse now. My two are retired now and to find suitable grass retirement livery I had to move them nearly a 100 miles away.

Totally agree with Spudlet, Tinypony and others that it is an essential, up there with food and water for 95% of horses.
 
As so many UK horse owners feel so strongly about this you would think that the livery yard market would adapt and accommodate wouldn't you? For the last couple of years I have been checking out many local yards and I was shocked at the amount who just don't do any winter turn out, or even 24/7 in the summer. When we found our horse's current yard we couldn't believe our luck and we hope to never have to move because it's really hard to find it.
 
Move yards asap!!

Constant stabling can give rise to azortoria, especially in mares and tb's!! And trust me, you don't want that....

Your horse sounds really unhappy and whats the point of having a horse you can't ride due to lack of turnout??

I just dont get the mentality of not allowing turnout for horses, who are by nature herd animals... :mad:
 
Enfys said:
Unhappy horse, unhappy you, upsticks before it all goes really sour.

[I have tried to explain that she's an ex-racehorse which makes her different from other breeds/types of horses but it doesn't seem to sink in! ]

ps, sorry, but I can't see what difference her being an ex-racer makes in the least, racer, ex-racer, they are no different. They all just horses, never quite got my head around this fallacy that they are more special than any other type to be honest. I've worked with dozens and dozens of them, on and off the track, both tbs and arabs, flat, NH and more recently standardbreds, they are still just horses.

It is the other way around on my yard, stabling is limited, I have plenty of them, just don't like having to muck them out, so I don't rent them out;)
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I agree with this, even though I do have two ex-racers and I do favour them, they are no different to any other breed as far as turnout goes. I think that every horse, whatever the breed should have the right to daily (as far as weather and muddy fields permits of course) turnout. I chose my yard for the reason that we are allowed to turn out every day in winter and 24/7 in summer. Farmer only objects if the weather really is foul and the fields are like paddling pools. Otherwise he is quite easy going.
 
With regard to Wagtails comment about how much land is needed, that amount is correct IF the yard is to provide their own hay. However that to me is taking the money twice. If the land is overstocked (ours is!) then you have to be prepared to feed forage all year round and buy it in. Wet land is a problem and the last couple of winters have indeed been wet, however the attitude of 'saving' the land at the cost of the horse is wrong IMO. It often is greed.
 
Unfortuately we seem to live in a world where the sight of flat green fields is more impressive to the on looker than a couple of acres of mud in winter with a few hosrses playing it. ''They are so dirty and there is no grass so they must be neglected ''
My paddock at home is on clay and in winter it is trashed, and every spring I roll and reseed it for it to be trashed the following winter.Thats just the way it is but I would never not let turn them out in it half the fun is seeing how much mud can one small pony get on them.
I also rent two other fields and the small dry one is the winter trash paddock and that too is rolled reseeded and fertilised every spring.
Land is very expensive but I think its better to set a side somewhere for them to let off steam even if you end up having to feed them all year, I would rather have that than a nice 12x12 stable.
 
Haven't read all the replies, but I agree with the people who have advised you to move asap.

I was at a yard recently with very limited turnout, having moved from one with great turnout. My circumstances changed and I moved back to the old yard and my boy is a different character altogether. He's not a TB, far from it, but he'd started looking depressed stuck in his stable so long. Horses need to move around. Fifteen minutes a day for yours is tantalising, and basically useless. Move!!!
 
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