New Yearling Owner

[HappyHollyDays]

Could you find youngstock livery for him so he can be turned away for a year? He really needs interaction with horses of his own age and a matriarch to instill some manners in him now so he grows up to be a nice polite boy. He sounds like he is going to be very big when fully grown and you won’t have any chance of dealing him once he has filled out. For your own safety please put a hat and gloves on when you go in the field with him in case he decides he wants to use you as a play thing.

 

[AmyMay]

I guess you‘re in the US. You may be better off posting for advice on US boards, rather than UK ones, as our methods are wildly at odds with practices there.

Good luck with your young horse.

 

[vanessabaxter]

Gosh. I thought I was joining a group of people who would give good positive and helpful feedback. Not attack me for caring about my beautiful boy that I love.
You know, sometimes people just want opinions that are helpful and if that means telling me to let him do this and that and back off from him etc etc, then that's helpful and useful and the information I'm wanting from you all. Not to be aggressively attacked like I'm abusing my boy and mistreating him.
He's not dragged to constant shows, nor is he dragged out of his paddock to be shown off like a model! He's treated with the utmost respect, care and attention he deserves as the beautiful horse he is.
I regret joining this forum sadly and was hoping for supportive and positive advice and feedback with the view to learning more about young horses, having owned a 3 year old in the past and not being attacked.

 

[SilverLinings]

The reason so many people here are saying that it is an inappropriate and even cruel way to keep a youngster is because you are asking a young animal to live in an environment that is vastly different to what he'd encounter in the wild in terms of socialisation and other behaviours. Horses learn how to be horses- and how to behave appropriately with other horses and animals- by living in mixed-age herds. The youngsters will test boundaries with others, and the older horses will indicate what is and isn't acceptable. As your horse has no one else to play and try fighting with he is doing it with you. He will also be bored living on his own (young horses spend quite a bit of time playing with others in herds) as he can't play with horses over a fence, so you arriving will be seen by him as an opportunity for some entertainment.

What your horse's previous owner did, and what your trainer does, of course isn't your responsibility, but they clearly don't know how to raise youngstock in the best way for the horse so may not be the best people for you to look to for advice.

It is great that you care for your horse so much, and are asking how to do right by him, but there is a reason most responses on here have been that he needs to be turned out with other horses, even if that is difficult for you to arrange.

 

[vanessabaxter]

Could you find youngstock livery for him so he can be turned away for a year? He really needs interaction with horses of his own age and a matriarch to instill some manners in him now so he grows up to be a nice polite boy. He sounds like he is going to be very big when fully grown and you won’t have any chance of dealing him once he has filled out. For your own safety please put a hat and gloves on when you go in the field with him in case he decides he wants to use you as a play thing.

Thank you for your positive and helpful advice. He's not quite that bad fortunately, but I appreciate your kind reply.

 

[vanessabaxter]

I guess you‘re in the US. You may be better off posting for advice on US boards, rather than UK ones, as our methods are wildly at odds with practices there.

Good luck with your young horse.

Nope, I'm in New Zealand. Yes, sounds like we do things quite differently over here.

 

[ihatework]

Gosh. I thought I was joining a group of people who would give good positive and helpful feedback. Not attack me for caring about my beautiful boy that I love.
You know, sometimes people just want opinions that are helpful and if that means telling me to let him do this and that and back off from him etc etc, then that's helpful and useful and the information I'm wanting from you all. Not to be aggressively attacked like I'm abusing my boy and mistreating him.
He's not dragged to constant shows, nor is he dragged out of his paddock to be shown off like a model! He's treated with the utmost respect, care and attention he deserves as the beautiful horse he is.
I regret joining this forum sadly and was hoping for supportive and positive advice and feedback with the view to learning more about young horses, having owned a 3 year old in the past and not being attacked.

If you genuinely care about your horse you will make a serious effort to find him alternative accommodation where he can be safely integrated with other horses.

 

[Patterdale]

I appreciate everyones opinions as I've asked for them.
It is interesting to hear such a variety of opinions.
I have been given a complete contradiction of opinions of what he should be doing and not doing.

Everyone here has said the same thing. I’m sorry it’s not what you wanted to hear, but it’s fairly unanimous which I hope will help you to reflect on it.

 

[smiggy]

I’m sure he is utterly gorgeous
the issue is that he is having a really limited life experience of actually being a horse and interacting with others of his kind.
I bred a foal last year. I don’t subscribe to the Chuck them out in a big field until they are three model but since weaning mine has been with at least two others, one who is a surrogate mum and one who is young and will play nippy bitey fun games with him. It’s a joy to watch him interact with them. They tell him off if he oversteps the mark but also let him eat dangling bits of haylage out of their mouths!
he is always pleased to see people and I can lead him with a rope round his neck if I can’t be bothered to find a head collar. He doesn’t need to play nippey bitey games with me as thats what he has other horses for.
it’s honestly a pleasure to watch them just grow and learn from the others.
no one is saying don’t do the school play and shows, just maybe try and find a better set up for now to give him some horse company.

 

[PurBee]

Young colts can be very boisterous - interacting with a herd teaches boys especially how to behave. Having this type of herd education since birth then helps us humans handle and teach them another set of manners. They’ve been used to being told their place by other horses, so are not so rebellious when humans teach them.
They have a fierce independent spirit and energy and want to explore this as a horse, with other horses. Not giving them this essential education with other horses makes human training/handling a different experience, and we can risk breaking their personslity/spirit to get them to behave, like the old training methods of ropes/whips and force.
Their herd education is stage 1 to teach them compliance to another beings instruction, without breaking their individual personality. We humans then come along and have a horse who’s used to being told instruction, and they see our instruction as an extension of the herd education they’re receiving, so are naturally more compliant.

If he had a herd education when young he would be less likely to receive injury/scars, as baby horses don’t get seriously beaten up by older horses - their young play is mere tickles to older horses, and the reprimands are gentler. As they grow they might try it on but dont push the limit as they know a more severe reprimand is possible. They’ve been educated to play sensibly by the herd as they grow.
Now he’s big, been paddocked alone most his young life, with mates only over a fence line - he hasnt had the chance for full interraction play with other horses, and you know he’ll have a fab time if he’s now put in with other horses. It’ll help his state of mind, his demeanour, and relieve his need for 121 horse play, and there may be the risk of rougher play, bites/scars, which may well spoil his chance of some winning ribbons - but there might not, as he’s had some i terraction at least - so i’d take that risk, than have a horse for potentially 25yrs that i need to restrain and train very firmly at a level of what i personally consider cruel, loose chunks of flesh to, never feel relaxed around, and possibly receive injuries myself.

He’s 16hh now at 2, he’s an animal, in the truest sense of the word, not a pet. We get to know their sweet side and sure they are beautiful, but we also see the animal side and cannot diminish that aspect with treats and kisses. They always need to have time to be horses, run, play and groom together, free - without human interference. It’s vastly under-estimated how essential that type of environment is for a horse, even if just for a few hours per day.
When their horse body and mind is satiated by fully being allowed to be a horse, their minds are in a more centred receptive state for human interaction and training.

He’s wanting excess stimulation from you due to being mostly alone and youre right, is testing your boundaries. What are your handling interactions like? Remain firm, yet kind and calm, consistent with what youre asking. Do mini 15 mins groundwork sessions on basic handling. Occupy his mind, have him thinking, learning. My young gelding loved learning and was chuffed with himself when the next session a few days later, he could show me he remembered my asks from last session and complied proudly. This was teaching him a subtext that i do the asking and he complies, rather than the other way around.
But we must remember, we are not a substitute for a herd education, a human will never be a horse to a horse.

It sounds like youre restricted by how your yard is run and the dynamics of keeping horses there, so you may not have the opportunity to give him herd time there. It’s worth looking for another yard turn-out situation that has herd turn-out.
My young gelding had a strong mare leader putting him in his place, aswell as other aged horses, and still at 2 i didnt do much with him. Just basic groundwork handling mini sessions, rinse and repeat so he wasn’t completely unhandled, but was just being a horse mostly. By 3 he was more mature, but the real turnaround to mental maturity was 4-5yrs old for him, though i didnt have strong plans like you do for yours so didnt intensify training sessions until that age.

The advice given on this thread is sound and supportive - it feels like its not because the current yard you’re at doesn’t allow you to accommodate the suggestions given. Folks here aren’t being unkind. There’s often threads about unruly youngsters and overwhelmed owners asking for suggestions, only for it always to be discovered the youngster is on its own, never receiving herd turn-out, and the only real solution to their behaviour angst is to give them a herd education. It’s the one thing a human can’t give.

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

Nope, I'm in New Zealand. Yes, sounds like we do things quite differently over here.

I have family and equestrian friends in NZ mostly in North Island, those with youngsters don't isolate them but have at least one other nanny horse out with them.
I sent the link to this thread to 2 of them, both are a little ?.
So no, it's not much different.....

I'm out.

 

[ycbm]

Hi
He's in a paddock right next to the older horses. He's able to connect over the wire fencing and I've seen him often been put in his place by both older horses.
All in all he's actually very good to catch, cover, float, clip, groom etc. He just has moments when he's a little vile and I'm guessing this is just his age and trying to push the boundaries with me. I've only had him 6 weeks, so I'm putting this down to him testing how far he can go with me. I've growled at him and chased him in the paddock when he's been rather invasive of my space by rearing and kicking out. In the afternoon I find him as gentle as a lamb as it's tea time and he loves his food. I can take off and throw covers over him without a halter and he's happy to stand there with his dinner.

Your thoughts all in all??

My thoughts on all are that from your language you aren't in the UK, and may be surprised at responses on a UK based forum.

in the UK the majority of people would believe that this is a completely inappropriate way to keep a horse under 2 years old; that the behaviour problems which you started the thread seeking help for are entirely of your own making, and that you will be lucky not to end up with a very damaged, possibly unmanageable, adult.

He isn't "testing you", he's a normal and very frustrated youngster and it really grates to see you call him "vile" and "a monster" for trying to let you know that you are managing him wrong.


ETA I see from reading further up that you are in New Zealand.

 

[Arzada]

I've also got to be careful that he doesn't cause injury to them and himself.

You are not being careful of, or caring for, his mental and emotional wellbeing. A herd animal needs to be with others. Your horse's needs are not being met and he needs to be with others of his kind. You really must put some effort into finding somewhere for him, not for you. Meeting his needs will give you a well rounded horse who will be a pleasure to be with and who will be easier to train. We're all easier to be with when we have a suitable lifestyle. See Purbee's explanation post #40

 

[PurBee]

I had missed the part when you said you’ve only had him 6 weeks - so you’ve inherited this problem from previous owner who kept him alone, without even next field buddies, since weaning presumably. Now i understand why you think your set-up is an improvement for him, which it is compared to not seeing/interacting with any horses at all. Yet, still not ideal for a youngster.

This sounds generally how stallions are kept. Remaining entire with hormones developing can cause him to be a handful and not having herd social skills as well, its a tough job you’ve taken on. Many would feel over-horsed with an almost 2 stallion who’s never had herd social skills.

You didn’t say if he was castrated or left to be a full stallion..?

Hi

He was in a completely separated paddock with his previous owner. He was shown in hand and won two champions. I've had him 6 weeks, so he's getting used to a new environment. He's never had the opportunity to be with other horses so close, so in a sense he's been lucky to spend his time close to two older horses.
He's clipped because he get very very hot and sweats. This is done for his comfort and also for showing. He is turned out for weeks after every show and won't be shown again until our summer time in December 2022, possibly.
I've been given so much conflicting information about how to handle a yearling, which I find rather confusing. I want to do the right thing by him and allow him to be a happy little fellow that's just as happy to be with me and feel safe and secure.
He's great to catch, float, farrier, worm and clip. He can just get very wild when put into a new paddock with new grass. I'm feeding him a supplement of toxin binder with vitamins and minerals to help with the effects of grass.
Positive and encouraging advice would be much apprecaited.

 

[Lacuna]

If you can't find a local youngster herd to put him with, would it be a possibility for you to loan a companion for him? Another youngish horse for him to play and burn off energy with would at least give him company in the field.

 

[Z3bby]

Ive had a 2yo (recent gelding) since April.
The first yard I kept him on he only had individual turnout, after a few weeks he started to develop some unruly behaviour when handled. As others has said here, he was trying to play with me like he would play with another horse. 95% of the time he was sweet and really good to handle in all ways.
After about 6 weeks on that yard with his behaviour getting worse, I decided to move him onto youngstock livery, its further away from home.
He has been there about 4 weeks and his nibbley behaviour when handled has completely gone. He is still great to do, as before in all other ways.
Sometimes you just have to listen to your horse. My boy isn't coming back until he is at least 3, and its the best decision I made. I really miss him though!!

If getting him a friend or moving him isn't at all an option, consider getting him a treat ball, field toys, ball ect. something to play with, he is just a baby.

 

[eggs]

Basically everyone has said the same thing so you have not got contradictory advice from this forum - although I appreciate that it is not what you want to hear.

I'm not an expert but I have had 8 warmblood foals and I would not keep them in a field on their own even with company next door. My colts (gelded at approx 6 months) and kept with other horses, have always played hard with each other (biting and rearing being their preferred method) - it is what young horses do and the older horses in the field kept them in check. They had basic handling when young so were easy to catch, lead, tie up, groom farrier, etc but that was basically it. At 2 they would come into the stable for a short time for a quick check and a small feed and then go back out into the field.

Your boy certainly sounds like he has had plenty of early handling and has good manners so doesn't need much doing with him now - certainly not 15 minutes in the arena.

Not giving a horse one of their basic freedoms - company of others (and not over a fence) - is in fact mistreating/abusing them even though you are doing it with your best intentions as it may feel that you are doing it to keep him safe. Often animals are treated with 'love and respect' and some of these for example are grossly overweight but their owners would he horrified to learn that their 'kindness' is in fact cruelty.

Please listen to your horse and continue to enjoy him but let him have the appropriate company.

 

[Goldie's mum]

You are in a difficult situation mostly of your horse's previous owner's making & I hope you will find a way to act on the sound advice you have been given.

He does get fed up with some lead training in arena and will bolt if hes had enough.

Yes, he's walked and trotted in an arena for 15mins max as part of his exercise and training as a young one. This is taken very carefully and when he's had enough I take him back to his paddock.
He is a show horse destined for showing and dressage. He's been in two show's with previous owning, winning two champions.

A small point compared to the general issues discussed already but you are rewarding him for acting up. He shows you he's fed up by being a handful so you put him where he wants to be.
If he has to do training sessions make them so brief that you can be sure he isn't going to object even if that's just one minute, then stop while he is doing what you want him to & reward him then.
(Its called operant conditioning. Basically identify what he wants; give it to him when he does what you want. Read "Don't Shoot The Dog" by Karen Pryor . The book's name is misleading it isn't about dogs primarily, it explains how to make a training schedule for anyone from a dolphin to a teenager that wont tidy his room.)

 

[Pinkvboots]

To put it bluntly his bored and he only really has you to interact with so his using you as his playmate.

I had a 2 year old Arab colt that was shown in hand he did go out with another colt for a while but they started playing a bit to rough as they got older, we did separate them and my horse was fine he already had good manners and appreciated I wasn't his play thing, he spent the majority of time living out until he was 4.

 

[Wishfilly]

He's a young horse, and needs to be able to play properly with others- he can't do this with a fence in the way. If he's been kept completely alone before, that will have also affected his development. It's very likely he hasn't properly learnt to interact "as a horse" and that's why he's displaying a lot of erratic behaviour. If he doesn't get turnout or company, I'd expect this behaviour to continue to escalate, to the point where he becomes dangerous.

In my teens, I was on a yard with a 4yo who had been brought up in a similar way, and also been hand reared (which is an issue in itself, of course). The horse was ultimately PTS due to dangerous behaviour.

Please, please try and find him some turnout in a herd, and give him time to learn to be a horse.

I do think in the UK more and more people are trying to keep youngsters on livery in similar situations, and I think we are creating a lot of problems for the future.

 

[windand rain]

I have to assume he is not gelded so that would be my first job. Get him into a herd once recovered and leave him alone until he has lost the hormones. A good colt always and I mean always makes a better gelding. You do not appear to have the knowledge or back up to give your boy his best life. I appreciate you have different cultures but he needs your help desperately to grow Into a sane ridden horse. No one believes you are being wilfully cruel but cruelty is often caused by ignorance and being unwilling to learn from others

 

[Equi]

He has never been in a heard to learn actual social behaviour, and frankly if he is not put in one he never will. So you are his social outlet, and he will react to you how he wants to react to another horse only you are not another horse and can't bite/kick him to tell him to bog off when you have had enough without you getting your head kicked in by a stray hoof when he retaliates. But your mind seems already set and his life as a solo animal seems set in stone. I find that sad, and its not how i would choose to keep a horse but i also understand it goes on anyway. Please consider always wearing a hat and a body protector with him for now at least.

Just don't be surprised if you ever do try to put him into a herd and he goes berserk. He won't know any other way to react because noone will have been able to teach him. A horse over a fence does not a teacher make.