Newbie with a RAW question

[madbluebell]

Hello,

I am one of 'those lurkers' who is now coming out of the woodwork at last

Now the lurking has made me switch my 3 lovely dogs onto a RAW/BARF diet and all seem very happy on it which is fab so far in lots of ways including lack of 'doggy smell' and smelly breath.

I am still learning and have a couple of questions i could do with answers on please;

I am confused still as to the feeding of vegtable as it seems to be a divide on opinions when i have read various websites, so have given them some during the week but not regularly. Should I or shouldn't I that is the question and if so would mixed frozen veg blitzed be ok???

The other one is being told by a dog owner (who can't understand why i would be feeding raw chicken backs and wings) that they are at risk of Samonella as they had looked it up on the internet while i was away and were looking after one of the dogs. They cooked the meat and fed it that way (minus the bone of course) .

I buy the backs which are usually frozen in bags of about 5/6 from the butcher and then I defrost them and feed them over 2 days as they get one in the morning and raw mince in the evening as well as the oily fish,egg and offal etc during the week (the puppy terrier is having a chicken wing).

I feed them on the patio outside as having a small boy I don't want him in contact with the raw meat.

Hope that you can help as this is the one place I thought I would get some help

 

[camilla4]

Hi there,

As far as the veg are concerned, it is not essential by any means but I do feel it is preferable. A small quantity of veg would be a normal part of a dog's diet in the wild as they would eat the stomach contents of their (largely herbivorous) prey. I do feed some - not as part of the feeds but squashed up inside a Kong toy as a daily treat (these can be frozen for hot weather!). Feeding occassionally will be fine - the diet does not have to be the same from day to day and what you are feeding sounds well balanced. If you do feed veg, frozen will be fine!

As far as raw meat and salmonella are concerned, of course this is a theoretical possiblity but dogs are designed to eat raw meat harbouring various bacteria and their systems are well equipped to counter this so don't worry!

 

[soloabe]

Hey, welcome.

I don't feed any veg because i feel they don't need it. When i was feeding it it was just another thing i hadto do and didn't help the dogs. If you watch wild dogs they will either not eat the stomouch or they will shake out the content and not eat it (and even if they did it would be such a tiny tiny amount) so i feel they "they would eat it in the wild" argument to hold no weight.
My dogs will eat a whole carrot as a treat but thats just because its something that keeps them quiet for a while without throwing the rest of their diet out of wack.

The next don't even worry about the salmonella. Dogs have pretty much iron stomouchs and are built to cope with that kind of things. Most dogs that are fed kibble will have salmonella bacteria in their gut and poop so just the usual being careful to pick up after the dog ect.

I feed outside to simply because my dogs prefer it, they take it out the bowl and eat in in the bottom corner of the garden. But when i feed inside when it rains they will eat over the bowl or i put a small towel in front of the bowl so they can put it down if they need to.

Well done for doing something awesome for your dogs!

 

[KarynK]

First well done for taking the step.

Dogs cant digest vegetables and fruit without a little help.

They are designed to break down proteins and fats which requires a very different digestive system to an animal that eats just grass. Eating meat and bones is easy, you need a short highly acidic gut that processes your meals at speed, you don't want skanky meat hanging around in your guts for too long or Salmonella and it's nasty mates will have a field day! This is especially true of the canine family who are scavengers and eat meat that is sometimes less than fresh. Protein and fats are high in nutrients so they also need to eat less frequently.

So a quick highly acidic gut reduces the risk of Salmonella being able to perform and make the dog ill.

On the other hand a herbivore deals with tough plant cell walls by having a more alkaline gut and by "stewing" the food for much longer in it's extensive hind gut (the dog does not have this) and also by employing friendly bacteria to help you break down the cell walls to get at the goodies inside them. They also have to eat a much larger amount to get the same nutrients and so are constantly eating. Any baddies like salmonella can cause this system horrendous problems.

Anyone feeding raw will tell you a healthy canine gut deals perfectly well with salmonella, but you don't so remember to keep up your normal hygiene precautions when handling raw meat and bones, and feeding them outside is a good idea, though by feeding human grade fresh meat and bones from the Butcher you minimise any risk to no more than it would be for your own food.

If you decide to feed fruit and veg, I feed it once or twice a week (2-3 Tbs), and I liquidise it to break down the plant cell walls. I usually feed mine with a bit of raw mince and a raw egg or two. I have found that if I miss it out they will eat horse poo, so I guess mine do need it.

 

[madbluebell]

Hello again,

Thank you for your answers it has put my mind at ease now on both counts

No one I know feeds RAW so although I know it works for me I am having to convince every dog owner who questions me or pulls faces about it

one of my dogs loves any fruit and veg so that's easy but the other two are picky so when I have fed some veggies they have skirted round it and eaten it only if stuck to the mince and they have to eat it.I'll just give them a carrot as you suggested KLH as they do all like that one.

 

[madbluebell]

Hello KK,

Thank you for the very detailed reply it you have explained it better than I have seen on any google search I have tried to do

My dogs have always been partial to horse poo and goat poo too on a daily basis and I haven't worked out why as yet but is it as you say just down to lack of veg or can they 'just like the taste'?

I can't get hold of bigger bones so just stuck to chicken and wondered if I need to find some and if so where and what?

 

[KarynK]

No problem it's easier to understand and defend when you know why!

Forgot to say also that dogs can make their own Vitamin C unlike us who will get diseased without a dietary source, so dogs do not need to eat plants as such but being scavengers they will, some because they like it and others because they are hungry! So with the horse poo they can just like the taste, mine were really into early foal poo presumably as he was almost exclusively on milk at that time!!!! Now he is eating lots of grass they are not bothered. I don't think it hurts so they get a bit of bashed veg with their soft meals.

The chicken you are feeding is great as there is a really good ratio of meat to bone on the backs, but if they are pigs like my two they might not really chew. Chicken forms the greatest part of my diet say 4 days a week as it is accessible, cheap and a good source of nutrients. I feed lamb or deer bones say once or twice a week, so if you can get hold of some lamb bones from a butcher or Morrison’s do a stock pack for around £1 this will help really clean the teeth. I tend to avoid beef bones as being from an older and bigger animal they are very hard and I need to be there with mine as they will squabble.

If you are stuck then this company can supply you with human grade lamb bones and ribs and do a next day postal service, but it will be more than if you can get them locally.
.
http://www.naturalinstinct.com/

 

[lizziebell]

Hello again,

Thank you for your answers it has put my mind at ease now on both counts

No one I know feeds RAW so although I know it works for me I am having to convince every dog owner who questions me or pulls faces about it

one of my dogs loves any fruit and veg so that's easy but the other two are picky so when I have fed some veggies they have skirted round it and eaten it only if stuck to the mince and they have to eat it.I'll just give them a carrot as you suggested KLH as they do all like that one.

I think anyone who feeds raw ends up with questions from people who don't understand. I don't even bother with much of a response these days as most of them have already made thier mind up to be negative about it, and they seem ready to counteract my reasons. The number of times I hear "but my dogs have sensitive tummies" and need special food !!

With regards to the fruit and veg, my dogs do not appreciate the effort and time I take in preparing it so I have given up on making my own and instead every couple of weeks I feed them Prize Choice nuggets which come in a veg plus meat variety. I also feed them the meat plus liver, as again, when I give them either whole or minced liver they won't touch it, but seem to eat the Prize Choice.

 

[CorvusCorax]

I can't get hold of bigger bones so just stuck to chicken and wondered if I need to find some and if so where and what?

CaveCanem's stock reply:

Asda turkey drumsticks £1.71 and Tesco also do them, priced by weight.
Cheap, mahoosive and keep them busy for ages

 

[madbluebell]

Hello,

Completely agree Lizzie bell with people always ready to give you negative reason re feeding RAW, I just need to remember the useful points from this post when they do it

I think my dogs just like the taste of horse poo especially my old lab who will just amble around the fields in the morning in search of her 'tasty treat'
I will try adding veg a couple of times a week or even the prize choice mix suggested if they keep picking around it.

My butcher might be more open now re lamb bones as i am using them every week now and if not will go to morrisons and have a look at some point.

CC I bought turkey drumsticks from Tescos last week and my girls were in heaven (the poor terrier pup was very jealous and kept trying to steal them).
I only did it as a one off as not seen them before but think I will go and buy a few of them as they keep them quiet for much longer as you said