Newly backed horse jumps as I dismount . . .

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melle

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New horse has been backed (by me) 5 weeks or so ago. All been good as gold apart from a couple of green moments (think broncing on the spot with excitement). Last week she got very excited hacking with another horse and bronced when asked to leave the yard. As I jumped down to sort the saddle which had shot forward (not helpful) she bucked again. Then I got on (no reaction to me mounting) and when for a nice hack. Since then when I get off, she tenses as I lean forward and sort of bucks/kicks out as my feet hit the floor. Saddle has been checked by two saddlers, teeth done but haven't had back checked or had vet yet. No reaction to me mounting or saddling up. Ridden work she is well behaved. Even if she spooks she doesn't buck.

Has anyone got any thoughts?

Thanks
 
I think the best thing is to have an assistant or two [one offside holding the saddle by the leather. Hold her and re assure her while you slide very carefully and SLOWLY off her, pat her with both hands, kind of all over, neck, ribs etc., do this on a soft surface just in case, make a fuss if all goes well and re mount, trot around for a few minutes then repeat on the other side [offside dismount]
I would take everything very slowly, remove feet from stirrups ask handler to lead her in a circle, and walk on then go back to a safe place, halt and slide off.
Do a bit more work with saddle in her stable, grooming with it on, removing it, replacing it. I assume she has not hit the sides of the stable door with the saddle at any time as this also could make her nervy.
I am assuming the saddle fits and does not move.
If this does not work I have no other suggestion other than a rather risky dismount in a hurry and tell her to "cut that out", while holding her head and flicking your fingers on her neck.
If you ride or lunge with no numnah you will see an impression , it should be even. If you run hands along the back you should discover if she is sore/sensitive.
 
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Thank you. I will try this. I have been getting off quite quickly to avoid being in the saddle as she bucks/kicks out. But getting off slowly would probably reassure her more. She is never tacked up in the stable so has never caught the saddle as she walks out. Saddle has been checked by two different saddlers now who were both happy with it. The other thing I have noticed is that she does this when I dismount 'out' but if I am riding in the paddock at home she is quite calm about me hopping off - well she has been so far. But yes, back to the beginning and just lots of practise - see if that helps.
 
Have you a mounting block or something else of similar height (so that you are standing slightly above her).
Then, get someone to hold her a short distance away. Jump off the mounting block onto the ground umpteen times until horse completely ignores you. (person holding horse gives positive reinforcement if horse stands still). Start with horse far enough away so that she barely reacts; then, when she stands still move her closer. When she will stand next to the mounting block happily while you jump down beside her, then start draping yourself over her and sliding off. Again, multiple times until she is not bothered.
Build up to jumping off her with her standing still and not caring anymore.
Note - may pay to enlist friends to help with the jumping off mounting block numerous times. If you have kids, then they can also add interesting sound effects to help really bomb-proof her.
 
You need to do lots of repetition. If she's ok in the paddock, dismount there when you've actually been riding. Do your training in the place she's not ok. You need to do it hundreds of times until she forgets the behaviour. Personally I would work on that instead of riding for a good few days. The longer it goes on the worse the habit will be. Agree with getting some experienced helpers on the ground and mix it up so she doesn't anticipate you leaping off.
 
Check the points of the saddle - as you lean forward to prepare to throw your right leg behind the saddle it puts more weight on them, and if they are close to digging in this is when they will do it. And don't use the points billet if there is one (at the very front, connected to the leather on the tree point) because that will pull the points down into her.
 
I've been involved with a couple who found the dismounting worrying. One was just a case of doing it slowly, lying across him and patting etc before sliding down. The other was totally fine in the school but not to dismount in the yard. Would go into the school to dismount then she gradually got better in the yard using the slow method witha helper at her head.
 
She was only doing it if I got off 'out' but this morning she did it even in the paddock. Her back came right up and she sort of humped as I got off. She is very reactive to me fiddling around near her wither and if I push around on her neck so I am wondering if there is some discomfort there and maybe need a physio/vet.
 
This was my worry too - it made sense to me that if the saddle wasn't right it would be uncomfortable as I lent forward to dismount. However I have had two saddlers tell me its fine now.
 
She is absolutely rock solid to mount. I can jump up and down near her, off the mounting block, jump up and down on the mounting block. No reaction. Stands perfectly still as I get on. I may do the sliding off thing - go back to the leaning over stage and just dropping to the floor from that and build up. Thank you every body for their suggestions. I will get physio too just to rule the neck pain out.
 
JillA said:
Check the points of the saddle - as you lean forward to prepare to throw your right leg behind the saddle it puts more weight on them, and if they are close to digging in this is when they will do it. And don't use the points billet if there is one (at the very front, connected to the leather on the tree point) because that will pull the points down into her.
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This with bells on!!!
 
Have you tried the reverse dismount - i.e. leg over in front of you, slide down facing away from horse? Obviously with someone holding onto her at the time! That might help you see if it's the movement of you dismounting, or the saddle digging in as you lean forward. Does she do the same thing if you dismount on the offside?
 
melle said:
She is absolutely rock solid to mount. I can jump up and down near her, off the mounting block, jump up and down on the mounting block. No reaction. Stands perfectly still as I get on. I may do the sliding off thing - go back to the leaning over stage and just dropping to the floor from that and build up. Thank you every body for their suggestions. I will get physio too just to rule the neck pain out.
Click to expand...
Just an idea, but what happens if someone parks their horse next to yours and then jumps off beside her? Does she still react the same (i.e. so she knows you are on top first but gets the 'human landing' effect). If no reaction, then could well be the movement in saddle/touch on wither. Note that this may not mean that the saddle doesnt' fit or there isn't pain somewhere, as it can occur on sensitive horses anyway e.g. if she has associated the movement of the saddle or pressure with a fright (perhaps the time she bronced she got nervous because you had got off). Had one horse that i fell off jumping a corner fence once and he made a strange association after that between me bending down to pick something up off the ground and the fright (no he wasn't hit because i fell off; my fault for not setting up the approach properly and he virtually never stopped)- took weeks for him to get over it and he wasn't a young horse.
When you have first got on and she is standing still, does she mind if you lean forward (as if you were going to get off)?
 
She kicks so I couldn't have another horse parked next to her but an interesting idea. I can lean forward on her but I do sometimes get a similar reaction if she is already a bit tense, when I lean forward to check the girth. She is a really one sided horse in that when I got her she would lead fine from the left but didn't understand at all from the right. Same today when I was bouncing around next to her - fine on the left - jumpy on the right. So at this stage I think trying off side dismount would freak her more. Its really hard because in my mind I keep thinking saddle must be to blame and have also noticed this sensitivity round withers/neck so I think ruling these out first is the way to go. I am relieved that she isn't the only horse to do this and have lots of ideas to help sort it once saddle/pain ruled out.
 
I still think tree points - did your saddler look at them, are they straight or rear facing? Did he see it with you on it? When the saddle is girthed up and your weight is on it can you easily slide your fingers between her shoulder and them?
 
She did look at the saddle briefly with me sat on it. Horse hadn't been sat on for 5 days so couldn't do too much but I did sit in the saddle. Yesterday I hacked out quickly on my own and she bronced and napped when leaving the field but did go. Then today hopped on after jumping about next to her and wiggling saddle about (thats when I noticed sore neck/wither/shoulder situation. So only got on briefly, hopped off and she bucked with her whole back and neck rounded.

What do you mean about the points being straight or rear facing? The saddle is an Ideal Nyala jump/gp saddle.
 
If you look at the image of the tree on here http://www.thejoyofhorses.com/june00/saddleconstruction1.htm the points are the extension of the front arch on either side, and are usually in "pockets" of leather. Those ones in the diagram go straight down, but some horses with big shoulders find them very restrictive and so some have been designed with those points curving backwards. I don't know whether Ideal do one like that - I'll try and find a picture, I know Schleese do some.
 
I see what you mean - but no I'm not sure whether my saddle has rear facing points. I can ask Ideal I guess but I suppose if the horse doesn't liek this particular saddle it doesn't really help.
 
Check for yourself, both by looking at the saddle under the flap and by trying to slide your fingers under it as above? Not many saddles have rear facing points so the key is are the straight ones clearing her shoulders well enough.
 
Haven't dared do that yet Kat :) I know thats the next step but its a bit daunting! My friend has a total contact saddle which she said we could try on her which will at least give me stirrups.
 
I had a similar issue with my youngster, I'd completely forgotten until a few days ago! He used to tensr up and throw his head back. When I was getting off I made it clear that I was getting off and did it slowly. I'd lean forward and stroke his neck so he knew I was still there, swing my leg over quickly but with control, then hold myself over the saddle like I was leaning over him. Then I'd just slip down. He's still a tiny bit funny with it and moves his head an inch when I get off but 90% of the time he's no bother.
 
Well, I have her back/neck being checked tomorrow, her saddle again on Friday and trying new saddles if needed and then it will just be lots and lots of practise. Dexnem - did you have someone to hold your youngster as you got off?
 
Hi, sorry only been able to get on here today! I didn't get anyone to hold him. I just did it very slowly and repeated leaning forward as if I was getting off several times, and only got off once he'd stopped reacting to it. Didn't take long to fix it :)
 
Once you know it's not back/neck/saddle, try just leaning forward and back in a controlled walk in a school or paddock... You could even have someone lead or lunge. If it's the anticipation and association with the first time she did that, you may just need to remove the thing she is using to anticipate as a salient cue... Which means to introduce that cue in contexts where it does not predict you dismounting. Repeat over and over until she stops. Then start introducing further cues like removing your feet from the stirrups and moving your arms. But most likely once you've removed the leaning forward cue, this will stop. Then you want to mount/dismount repeatedly a bunch of times with brief walks in between. Shouldn't be a difficult thing to correct in a day as long as she's not in pain.
 
Thanks everyone. I have changed saddle and she has been good as gold at my yard. Anywhere more exciting and she reverts, so I think lots of practise needed.
 
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