newly backed horse not moving off leg

C

Charmel

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 October 2013
Messages
163
Visit site
Our newly backed section D wont move off the leg. She was completely untouched up till last August but has now been mouthed and long reined and has been going nicely. But when backed she simply plants. She will walk if led with rider on but otherwise just stands still. Her full sister one year older also completely untouched till we had them in August has had exactly the same training but as soon as the leg goes on she moves forward to firstly shot forward but now just quietly to walk then trot with a bit more. taking it slow and just doing walk and trot first start and stop and steering around obstacles till she is more confident then will approach canter so she is doing well, but the younger sister wont move forward....any ideas.....Don't want to scare her but advisors re saying to smack her with a whip which goes against the grain with us as we have come a long way in gaining trust and although I am not adverse to a smack for older more established horses who are trying it on I don't feel it would be best in her case. Bear in mind it took 2 weeks before we could get a headcollar on them. They are 4 and 5 in May.
 
Personally, I would give her the time she needs and continue leading her, give her the leg and verbal aid and lead on. She'll get it in time.
 
Many youngsters do not move off the leg when first backed they have to learn what you want, a few will shoot forward but in my experience they are less common than having one stand still and not move, if they are really slow I will lunge with a rider on, the lunger initially in control while the rider is just sitting quietly then gradually they take over the aids with a bit of help when required from the person in the ground.
They all learn at different rates even with what seems to be the same training, she is a year younger so may be weaker, there is no reason to think she will not catch up but treat her as a totally different horse, which she is, go at her pace and if it means she is left behind by her sister don't worry she will get there but may always be a bit quieter or less forward thinking.

Smacking a young horse who is totally unsure is never a good idea, it is not fair to her and could end badly if she overreacts, carrying a whip to back up the aids once she knows what you want is fine but she needs to understand that going forward is the correct thing to do, at the moment she does not know that it is.
 
I always taught my youngsters to go forward from the voice which I initially used to teach them to lunge & long rein you then use the voice aid in conjunction with leg aid, did you not use a voice aid when long reining ? I definitely would not use a whip to get them going forward at this early stage
 
agree with the above. How well established is the voice aid? Def wouldn't smack, if it takes more time at that stage there's no worry, they all get there in the end. I'd keep the leading, with the leader moving further away gradually, but i'd reinforce the voice aid more.
 
Ignore your 'advisors'. Horses do not know instinctively to move off theleg, they need to be taught to do so. There are lots of good ideas above for ways to teach your horse what you want.
 
The point about lunging prior to backing is for them to learn the voice aids, which once you are in the saddle you have to use prior to each leg aid (or seat aid) to obtain your transitions. I would go back to the lunge and ensure those are fully learned before translating them when ridden.
 
If she goes off the voice on the lunge then I would work with that. I would also start hacking out as I have broken a few that were much better once hacking out than they were in the school, I usually have first canter and things out hacking not in the school.
 
She goes from voice aids very well when no one on her back but just stands completely still when someone is on her back...except for turning her head and nibbling the riders boots.
 
Charmel said:
She goes from voice aids very well when no one on her back but just stands completely still when someone is on her back...except for turning her head and nibbling the riders boots.
Click to expand...

Totally normal for many, she just isn't yet connecting the voice, leg, rider = move, pop her on the lunge with the rider on and she will start to understand without the need to hit her.
 
Charmel said:
She goes from voice aids very well when no one on her back but just stands completely still when someone is on her back...except for turning her head and nibbling the riders boots.
Click to expand...

For a horse, it is a whole different feeling having someone on their back at rest or moving, they feel unbalanced and vulnerable - if she knows the voice aids, the next step is to get her comfortable and confident carrying that load while she is moving, coping with the change of balance that means to her. Have someone lead her to begin with, as many times as it takes for her to be happy and relaxed.
 
is she completely relaxed when sat on or is she still trying to process it? The one i did recently I had to spend ages on the mounting, dismounting and just sitting-on stage until she was almost bored of it. I know in a proper breakers they would have done it much quicker, but i spent ages repeating it as even though she was standing still and not reacting badly, I knew she still wasn't 100% with the process.

I know in a breakers yard they might have seen me getting on, and the horse being still and behaved and thought she was fine to move on. But i could feel by the tension in her breath and eyes that she was still unsure. I waited till she genuinely wasn't fussed at all and only then moved. If she's a bit unsure of an earlier step it can cause issues down the line i think, so its worth ignoring how long other horses took and just dealing with the one in front of you - some stages they struggle at but others they find easier.
 
There is no reason for her to equate the leg with moving forward until she has been taught it.

With my youngsters I start off with lunging them so they get used to the voice aids. I then progress to having some-one lean over the saddle and whoever has done the lunging then leads the horse using the voice aids the horse is familiar with. Once the horse is happy to walk with someone leaning over (usually no more than a few minutes) the rider can then gently swing their leg over so that they are sitting on the horse whilst the person on the ground leads them round. Gradually you can then progress to the person on the ground giving less and less vocal cues whilst the rider uses their legs.
 
eggs said:
There is no reason for her to equate the leg with moving forward until she has been taught it.

With my youngsters I start off with lunging them so they get used to the voice aids. I then progress to having some-one lean over the saddle and whoever has done the lunging then leads the horse using the voice aids the horse is familiar with. Once the horse is happy to walk with someone leaning over (usually no more than a few minutes) the rider can then gently swing their leg over so that they are sitting on the horse whilst the person on the ground leads them round. Gradually you can then progress to the person on the ground giving less and less vocal cues whilst the rider uses their legs.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much how it happened and she is ok to walk when being led but plants when not being led....

I think will just keep leading and voice and leg until she gets it.
 
What I suggest is that you split a lesson in to 2 stages, either walk in hand or long rein with verbal command, ask for walk on [verbal] over three poles with no option for evasion, then once on back, [use an assistant], ask assistant to walk in front or to start her off, make sure the lesson is short, so she knows she has done what you want. you can have 2 lessons per day, but short sessions, this will also allow the muscles to develop.
Do groundwork in hand with a bridle and a schooling whip used behind the girth, let the lesson be short and sweet, not boring for either of you, use the lessons to introduce tarps, grids, cross poles etc, it wont take long.
She may just be slow on the uptake, so give her time to think about it rather than trying to do too much in one session.
If she is planting, then you need to pull her off balance by turning her, use an assistant, rather than yanking the bit. You may try a cheekpiece snaffle or D ring to ask for a turn
 
Last edited:
She needs to 100% know the voice cues for walk, trot, canter on the ground (lunge, long reining), whether they be the words or clicks/clucks/kisses etc., then when you are on board softly apply your leg as you give the voice cue, over time she will connect the voice with the leg, once that is established you can stop the voice cues and she should just move off the leg.
 
longreining after lunging using the voice, I have never lead or had a horse held to back it, and would not get on it till I thought it was ready to go forward, and all have gone forward from the first day from the leg, too many cooks spoil the broth.

you really need to get on a horse and use your legs and seat at the same time and allow it to move forward on a gentle contact and use your voice all at the same time, and expect it to happen.
 
tristar said:
longreining after lunging using the voice, I have never lead or had a horse held to back it, and would not get on it till I thought it was ready to go forward, and all have gone forward from the first day from the leg, too many cooks spoil the broth.

you really need to get on a horse and use your legs and seat at the same time and allow it to move forward on a gentle contact and use your voice all at the same time, and expect it to happen.
Click to expand...

I know and this is exactly how the other one was, but this one just stands there! I suppose I have to keep longreining and lunging but she moves fine by voice only then...never had this before.
 
If she doesn't move from your voice cue/command when you are on her back then she doesn't 100% know the voice cue, for example, on the lunge does she trot every single time, immediately, in a snappy way when you use your trot voice cue? Does she canter every time, immediately when you use your canter cue? If the association between the command and the action is solid in her mind, then it will work whether you are on the ground, on her back or sitting on the fence :)

I also think leading isn't great, it will be more of a distraction for her, she'll be doing more 'follow-the-leader' rather than focusing on you on her back. And if you have the voice cues solid you won't need the leader to get her to move. Maybe take a step back from riding to get her really responsive on the ground? Then, hopefully, your moving under saddle issues will go away. Good luck.
 
Sounds like she is looking to you for reassurance if she is happy to walk with a rider on board if you lead her. If she is happy to be led for now, then lead her for now. Once her confidence grows with someone on her back, she will begin to be happier to walk on her own.

Its just time, she is only 4, you have loads of it :D
 
Sorry to jump on your post but I'm having a similar problem with rebacking a driving horse. He goes beautifully off the voice when lunged and driven but ridden seems to just plant. It's like he doesn't know how to start moving with a rider on top. He will walk around with a leader or just someone walking a few paces away but sort of gets stuck in halt sometimes. Next move will be to lunge with me on top but I don't really trust anyone enough to help, I'm want to be the one lunging and the one riding aha. Any tips or just gentle persistence?
 
Polar Bear9 said:
Sorry to jump on your post but I'm having a similar problem with rebacking a driving horse. He goes beautifully off the voice when lunged and driven but ridden seems to just plant. It's like he doesn't know how to start moving with a rider on top. He will walk around with a leader or just someone walking a few paces away but sort of gets stuck in halt sometimes. Next move will be to lunge with me on top but I don't really trust anyone enough to help, I'm want to be the one lunging and the one riding aha. Any tips or just gentle persistence?
Click to expand...

I know what you mean, you want to be in control and feel safe!! I would continue as you are doing, get the person running to enable a bit of trot to encourage more forwardness, once they start trotting they usually realise they can move and things fall into place more quickly, the person on foot can gradually move further away or get them on another horse and ride out as yours should be a bit more clued up out and about.
I backed one that had done just a little driving, day 1 walked round the school, day 2 trotted, day 3 went for a hack alone, he was the easiest I have ever done, he took everything in his stride but would not lunge.
 
be positive said:
I know what you mean, you want to be in control and feel safe!! I would continue as you are doing, get the person running to enable a bit of trot to encourage more forwardness, once they start trotting they usually realise they can move and things fall into place more quickly, the person on foot can gradually move further away or get them on another horse and ride out as yours should be a bit more clued up out and about.
I backed one that had done just a little driving, day 1 walked round the school, day 2 trotted, day 3 went for a hack alone, he was the easiest I have ever done, he took everything in his stride but would not lunge.
Click to expand...

This ones a bit contrary, he's a trotter and I don't know what he's done in the past. Lunges like a dream and clearly been worked in side reins or simular at some point as he has a tendency to curl into a ball. Although he's an experienced driving horse he flips out on the road in hand, thinking maybe due to not having blinkers on or being used to trotting fast on the road so I'm unwilling to ride him out just yet. That's another work in progress. I like the idea of using another horse, may try that next. Just got to find someone with a sane horse that I trust enough to not decide to randomly go for a canter!
 
I hear this so often and definitely agree with everyone who says do not smack her.

The issue is that there hasn't been a break through with the transference of the aids from lunging to rider. The voice is important but at the end of the day you have gone from asking forwards with voice / lunge whip to expecting the horse to translate this to "oh, I now go from a touch with the leg". It sometimes can happen however more often than not it doesn't.

The transfer process:
Put the horse on the lunge with a rider on board.
1. Handler asks for forward with voice/lunge whip (gently following) rider is a passenger.
2. Handler asks for forward and a moment after this request is followed by a leg aid from the rider
3. Rider asks for forward and a moment after is followed by the handler backing this up
4. Rider asks for forwards with a passive handler.

When this process is repeated in a consistent and patient manner the horse very quickly learns that the leg is actually encouraging go.
 
Thanks everyone for your help....We have lift off, the mare moves...!! It finally clicked this weekend, she is now going forward from the voice with a rider. I did use many of your ideas and we were stood in the arena on Saturday about to start leading with rider on and she just started walking around. so halt then asked again and she moved without delay. Sunday even a few strides of trot to voice command with rider.....Patience that's all.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top