Newly barefoot and abscess

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JingleTingle

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As in title really - 6 weeks barefoot, turned out mostly but does come in for a few hours a day to dry the feet out. Have been waiting for hoof boots to start walking out as our very rocky track/lane is uncomfortable for her.

I have had her nearly 2 years, never a day lame, but now I see she has blown an abscess in the top of her heel at the coronet band on her off side front. She hasnt shown any lameness or heat, or pulses leading up to this and seems sound on all 4.

I have been researching today and many, many barefoot forums and gurus seem to suggest this is fairly common in newly barefoot horses, and could be repeated several times in the (how ever long is a piece of string) transition period.

I also read that the general opinion is that this is the horse's natural way of ejecting dead and infected tissue from within the previously shod hoof? And it is only now that the horse is barefoot that the increased blood flow is able to do this.

If anybody could explain this to me more clearly AND refer me to some reliable research that substantiates this theory, I would be very grateful. Or is this just a myth that is used to explain away any barefoot doubters that are starting to question the wisdom of going barefoot.

I have to confess I am having a newly barefoot wobble right now.:confused:
 
Sorry, can't offer any advice re the abscess, just wanted to offer sympathy & support :-)

I've recently taken all of mine barefoot, six horses/ponies & now not a single shoe between them!

It's a worry isn't it? Our ground is thick clay so really wet & muddy, then it's over a horrible stony track before they get to the smoothish concrete of the yard. Poor feet.

Anyway they all seem to be coping, although only one of them is doing any 'proper' work. I'm excited to see how their feet progress & change over the next few months.

Good luck with your girl :-)
 
My 17 hander was shod until he was 18 (now 20) and got his first ever abcess (thankfully a small one just at the heel which cleared itself up) a couple of months after going barefoot. He hasnt had any problems at all since, and I dont think he will now his hooves have settled down to being free!

Id rather have an abcess to deal with in a barefooter than navicular in the shod horse...:-)
 
JingleTingle said:
I also read that the general opinion is that this is the horse's natural way of ejecting dead and infected tissue from within the previously shod hoof? And it is only now that the horse is barefoot that the increased blood flow is able to do this.
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Mmmm, not sure about this tbh. My understanding is abscesses are due to bruising, dead tissue or ingress/injury but shod horses get them too. :D Those that don't cause lameness usually go unnoticed. I cannot provide you with any research on abscesses.
I do believe the circulation in barefoot hooves is better, there are numerous thermograms demonstrating this online. Whether the better circulation leads to a sort of 'clearing out' of the hoof I am skeptical about.
 
I don't think it's a myth invented for barefoot doubters.

I don't think there is any real research so it more that people who have taken many horses barefoot and seen abscesses in the early stages on a few occasions who then go on to be fine, theorising as to what the cause might be.

TBH barefoot or shod, an abscess is one of those things that you sort of breath a sigh of relief that it's not anything worse.

However if your horse keeps having them I would be looking for an underlying cause as to why they are so prone.
 
There isn't any research or proof regarding abscesses being a healing sign.

All we have are theories :).

As far as I am aware, the theory originally came from Dr Strasser. She believed that abscesses once barefoot were a good thing and a sign of internal healing.

Of course - the radical trim she taught that included cutting into live tissue and 'sculpting' the hoof at the sole likely also caused the abscesses too :rolleyes:.

In a polar opposite to this, the traditional view of hoof care is that our climate is too wet for barefoot and the action of allowing a hoof to touch the ground makes it wet, weak and vulnerable to bacteria. So a traditional person would say that the action of being barefoot in our climate creates abscesses.

I can appreciate both views.

My personal view is that an unhealthy hoof is at risk of abscesses.

It makes sense to me that a hoof in the process of remodeling internally may suffer with an abscess as part of that process.
It makes sense to me that an unhealthy, thin and weak sole softened by constant wet would be vulnerable to a puncture wound.

So how do we move forward?

Get a healthy hoof :D.

1) Diet -adequate copper and zinc to produce healthy tissue, linseed to provide a polar lipid which waterproofs the hoof, avoid sugar which can feed bacteria. Make sure the gut is healthy enough to absorb nutrients properly.

2) Movement - thicken those soles and stimulate production of healthy tissue.

3) Sympathetic trimming - no touchy the sole :D

Both my horses have had an abscess each.

Obi - in 2010, 10 days after his annual vaccs his soles went SPLAT and he got an entry point that abscessed and went nasty and to the bone. I now know this was the starting up of Cushing's.

The Tank - he has a natural dimple in each front toe sole. Spring grass made the tissue weak and he got an entry point that abscessed.

Actually - he had another one too that we didn't know about. We saw historical evidence of a blown abscess near the frog when he came back into ridden work after time off.

My point is that (to me) abscesses tend to be when something is going on with the hoof, rather than an inevitable consequence of not having shoes :).

I would take an abscess as communication that I need to review something in my practices.
 
Ok thanks. So it would seem that this idea is pure theorising rather than anything based on research and proven fact?

So could it equally be theorised that going barefoot causes the horse to abscess because it isnt the best option for that particular horse? I reiterate here that she has never abscessed or been even remotely lame in the 2 years I have owned her whilst shod.

She has also been on an optimum barefoot diet for 18 months - partly in preparation for this attempt to go barefoot and partly because it is just a better diet for any horse isnt it?

So I cant say she is prone to them at all, but naturally I am now worrying and wondering if this might become an issue because of my misguided decision to try barefoot with her?

In my many years with horses I have only had one horse abscess with me...he was a retired gelding who I had retired to grass and he was therefore barefoot. Hence my querying the issue with abscesses in the barefoot horse.
 
Incidentally I forgot to say that she was seen and trimmed by a very well respected farrier/trimmer 4 days ago. He only agreed to travel to me as a favour, he has written articles for a UK barefoot site and is very well regarded in UK BF circles. I only mention this as I don't want people to assume that I have had some barely trained butcher hacking at her feet!;)
 
JingleTingle said:
Ok thanks. So it would seem that this idea is pure theorising rather than anything based on research and proven fact?
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Yup :)

Research and proven fact regarding hooves is elusive in both barefoot and traditional practice :).

If you believe going barefoot is causing your horse to have abscesses, than the simple answer is to put shoes back on :).
 
Shod horses usually have quite "open " soft looking tissue where the laminae are in between the wall and the white line I assumed this why abbcess are quite common when the horse starts out BF.
As the feet sort them selves out this area looks very different.
I would advance the theory that perhaps only perhaps more bf abbcess burst out the top as the horse suffers less pain from a minor abbcess because the foot is not constricted by the shoe and there for they are not so painful to the unshod horse as they are to the shod I came to this conculsion after we cut our blackthorn hedges and two of the shod horses let us know very quickly that they had an abbcess but two of the Youngstock had them burst out the top.
This was years ago I have not had an abbcess on any horse for ten years plus.
 
OberBaubles said:
Yup :)

Research and proven fact regarding hooves is elusive in both barefoot and traditional practice :).

If you believe going barefoot is causing your horse to have abscesses, than the simple answer is to put shoes back on :).
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That is exactly why I am trying to find out more on the issue. I would like opinions on the whys and wherefores to help me decide if this is the right path to follow or not?

At this moment I believe nothing, one way or the other. I can only voice my concerns and hope that people will be kind enough to give me their personal experiences and thoughts?

If I believed that was the definitive answer I would not be wasting your time or mine posting this thread, I would be telephoning my farrier?:)
 
JingleTingle said:
So could it equally be theorised that going barefoot causes the horse to abscess because it isnt the best option for that particular horse? I reiterate here that she has never abscessed or been even remotely lame in the 2 years I have owned her whilst shod.
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Abscesses are common in shod and unshod horses. Most of them go, as yours did until you took a close look, unnoticed by the owner unless they see a mark in the hoof. And even then most owners are not aware that the horizontal line in the hoof wall is an abscess exit wound, or the split on the heel is not an overreach.

Your horse is not and has not been lame. This doesn't seem like a reason to go back to shoes to me? You sound very concerned, but I'm not sure what else we can say to reassure you?
 
cptrayes said:
Abscesses are common in shod and unshod horses. Most of them go, as yours did until you took a close look, unnoticed by the owner unless they see a mark in the hoof. And even then most owners are not aware that the horizontal line in the hoof wall is an abscess exit wound, or the split on the heel is not an overreach.

Your horse is not and has not been lame. This doesn't seem like a reason to go back to shoes to me? You sound very concerned, but I'm not sure what else we can say to reassure you?
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I can see that a minor abscess could easily be missed and only noticed long after the fact when the exit site becomes more apparent - and of course I cannot swear this has never happened with her.

It is not so much reassurance I am looking for, although actually yes, it probably is!:o It is the fact that in my online research for the best part of today, I have seen a good percentage of barefoot owners talking about their continuing problem with abscesses.

But of course that could be that people concerned enough to take greater note of the state of their horse's hooves are people who are taking the trouble to try barefoot?

I suppose I want to hear, 'yes, she might have one or two, but in a few weeks you will be over this hump and it is just a common phenomena of going barefoot'. I want to feel that I am not causing unnecessary suffering to my horse for the whim of trying barefoot with her. She may still be sound, but logic tells me that evidence of an abscess MUST cause some degree of discomfort for her, she is very stoical which doesn't help.
 
My 3 have had abcesses but none in the first few years of being BF. Mare no 1 had abcesses last year, 5 years after going BF, that was the first indicator of Cushings. Gelding had one 3 years after going BF, and has been BF for 6 years. 3rd mare had 1 recently, more than 2 years after shoes being pulled, but I know that was caused by standing on a drawing pin!

So I know the causes in 2 out of 3 horses, and it wasn't being BF. Hope that helps.
 
Do you check the white lines daily for grit and little stones I am very strict about this and often it twice a day( I am a bit sad like this ).
And I just love looking at the concave soles on my previously splat footed TB.
 
Yes I have a little wire suede shoe brush thing that I use, and I even put my specs on so I can see clearly whats going on!:D She has reasonably decent concave backs but her fronts are ridiculously pancake like, I dream of picking up her beautiful hoof and drooling over a concave sole sometime in the not too distant future.:o
 
JingleTingle said:
give me their personal experiences and thoughts?)
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Which I did in my first response to your thread :) There is no definite research or answers and I can't pretend there is (unlike many of the barefoot 'gurus' on the internet :D) There is much we don't yet understand about hooves and no one can find an answer that applies to every horse uniformly.

JingleTingle said:
It is not so much reassurance I am looking for, although actually yes, it probably is!:o It is the fact that in my online research for the best part of today, I have seen a good percentage of barefoot owners talking about their continuing problem with abscesses.
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Based on my experience of being barefoot and studying over the last 7 years, you find a lot of issues regarding barefoot on the internet (including abscesses) but that isn't necessarily a clear representation of whether barefoot works or not :) Barefoot is easy to get right, but just as easy to get wrong and it's difficult to judge what the people on the internet had going on, care and diet wise. I know I made many, many dietary mistakes over the years, even though I was trying my best :o.

I know barefooters had more problems in the past. The addition of balancing minerals over the last few years has made a huge difference to many horses in terms of success (IMO).

JingleTingle said:
But of course that could be that people concerned enough to take greater note of the state of their horse's hooves are people who are taking the trouble to try barefoot?
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That is an interesting point and I know that I look at all hooves much more closely now than I did in the 20 years previous to becoming a hoof nerd :D

JingleTingle said:
I suppose I want to hear, 'yes, she might have one or two, but in a few weeks you will be over this hump and it is just a common phenomena of going barefoot'. I want to feel that I am not causing unnecessary suffering to my horse for the whim of trying barefoot with her. She may still be sound, but logic tells me that evidence of an abscess MUST cause some degree of discomfort for her, she is very stoical which doesn't help.
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It's a bit difficult to give such definite advice without seeing the horse or the hooves or knowing exactly what the horse is eating. Internet advice has it's limitations :o.

There's no shame in going back to shoes if you are concerned the 'whim of trying barefoot' is causing harm :).
 
This is one of my favourite pics :D

26 year old, Arab, shod for 13 years, barefoot for the last 9 years.

Diagnosed this year with rampant Cushing's disease (had one abscess in 2010 when the Cushing's will have started but we didn't pick up on it). ACTH in that pic was 172 :eek:.

He CHOSE to walk on this part of the path and stand grazing like that for 10 minutes - the path in the middle is smooth.....

obibrickcrunching.jpg
 
JingleTingle said:
Yes I have a little wire suede shoe brush thing that I use, and I even put my specs on so I can see clearly whats going on!:D She has reasonably decent concave backs but her fronts are ridiculously pancake like, I dream of picking up her beautiful hoof and drooling over a concave sole sometime in the not too distant future.:o
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Concavity started to arrive just after six months it's eight and a half now and I can really see it once the last of the flaring has resolved itself they will look good the break over is shifting round to the front and back .
Last month he cast his fore frogs quite concerning if you have not seen it before the more I watch this horse the sadder I am about the ones I have let down in the past.
 
Just to throw in a curveball... It's not just adult horses that get abscesses you know!!!

My filly had one when she 6 months old and then again at 15 months... Maybe she'll have more. Maybe she gets them all the time but I only catch the REALLY big ones.

I do not think there is a special affinity for unshod or shod or young or old.

Abscesses happen. Period. They happen to be extremely common this year for some unknown reason... The reason is that this year, 2012, is when the world is going to end. One of the signs is horses with abscesses...

Seems a good a reason as any to me :D:D
 
tallyhohoho! said:
Just to throw in a curveball... It's not just adult horses that get abscesses you know!!!

My filly had one when she 6 months old and then again at 15 months... Maybe she'll have more. Maybe she gets them all the time but I only catch the REALLY big ones.

I do not think there is a special affinity for unshod or shod or young or old.

Abscesses happen. Period. They happen to be extremely common this year for some unknown reason... The reason is that this year, 2012, is when the world is going to end. One of the signs is horses with abscesses...

Seems a good a reason as any to me :D:D
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Time to start a cult , doomsday one based around predicting the future using horse injury frequency.
 
JingleTingle said:
But of course that could be that people concerned enough to take greater note of the state of their horse's hooves are people who are taking the trouble to try barefoot?
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Definitely this.

I suppose I want to hear, 'yes, she might have one or two, but in a few weeks you will be over this hump and it is just a common phenomena of going barefoot'..
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Yes she might have one. It's unlikely she'll have any more after that than any other horse in these horrible wet conditions.

If she does, check your copper/manganese/iron levels.
 
Goldenstar said:
Well I was assuming you would be chief doomslayer I was planning to watch amused from the sidelines.
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;)

I wasn't going to say anything but has anyone noticed that there are like loads of barefoot horses all of a sudden? Well, I was thinking that what if the four horses of the apocalypse were barefoot? Would anyone hear them coming?
 
Thank you all very much for taking the time to reply. I think I actually feel slightly less negative now and I will stick with it for a little longer. My original plan was to keep her barefoot until the spring and then rethink it all - but I have the confess that the appearance of an abscess at her heel had me ever so slightly going into melt down.:o:rolleyes:
 
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