Newly barefoot - very sore.

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MissMincePie&Brandy

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My retired TB had his hind shoes off over a year ago, and wasn't ever too badly sore when we removed those.
He was diagnosed with Navicular a couple of years ago, and my farrier had been trimming him well, keeping his toes short, and with shoes on, he was field sound, and I thought that he was now ready to have the front shoes removed.

Three days ago we removed the fronts (the ground is nice and soft and hopefully we wont get hard frosts for another month or so)
When we took them off I reminded the farrier to not trim his feet for a shoe, as I knew he'd be sore, so he just had a rasp to tidy them up and balance them a bit.
I'm applying sole paint on twice a day to try and harden them up, and I've given him a couple of butes a day ever since we took them off - but my horse is crippled when trying to walk on (flat, smooth) concrete. He's somewhat better once in the field, though obviously not sound.

Walking on concrete (to and from his stable), he takes tiny, short little steps and keeps stopping, hanging his head low (clearly in a lot of pain). It is also difficult for me to pick a front foot up, because he obviously hates the extra pressure on the other foot still on the ground.

My horse is very well, and healthy in himself, a perfect weight, glossy coat, and although the mechanics of his feet are rubbish due to his genetics & conformation, he does have a relatively normal degree of growth and the hoof wall is in decent condition, ie not crumbly or brittle.

I'm wondering how long I should allow, to wait for an improvement, before giving in and putting the shoes back on? I can't bear seeing him so sore :(
 
What is he eating? And how much grass?
You really need to get some boots urgently if you carry on barefoot, in the mean time you can tape a couple of nappies to his feet with duct tape. It's really not fair to leave him sore :(
 
It sounds like he has very weak feet indeed, and as thatsmygirl says, they need some kind of protection.

Photos would be very helpful, as would a complete breakdown of diet and management.
 
He's on a fibre and oil based diet. Out in the day and stabled at night:
Adlib hay, fast fibre, alfalfa, caron oil and extra flex HA.

I'm afaid that he's too sensitive for boots. I sold his boa boots - I bought some when we took the hinds off and they rubbed the bulbs of his heels raw, but he adapted quite well to having bare hind feet.

Sounds like he needs front shoes putting back on ASAP then?
 
You need to boot him with insole pads if he is sore. He might be sore from removing the shoes but he might be sore from the trim as well. You shouldn't need the hoof paint. Some pictures would be great.

ETA: no, you just need boots that fit well, the Boas didn't fit if they rubbed. Have you checked him for thrush? Does he land heel first?
 
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MissMincePie&Brandy said:
My horse is very well, and healthy in himself, a perfect weight, glossy coat, and although the mechanics of his feet are rubbish due to his genetics & conformation, he does have a relatively normal degree of growth and the hoof wall is in decent condition, ie not crumbly or brittle.
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Unfortunately, until you accept that the damage to your horse's hooves is NOT purely his fault but rather a whole management issue - you (and he) are going to struggle :).

Saying it's all genetic or conformational is doing the horse a disservice by suggesting there is nothing that can be done.

I'm not meaning to sound harsh but you need to understand that you CAN influence your horse's comfort and you CAN help him grow a better hoof.

Take heart though - a horse from my yard was recently deshod and has gone from cripple on three legs to happily striding out within a couple of weeks (I would like to point out that I wasn't involved in any way in this method :rolleyes:). So it can be done without making any other changes - but it's not the kindest way ;).

I'll send you a pm with some pointers.
 
I would remove the alfalfa with a horse such as this. It tends to have a question mark over it, and with a tricky horse I'd steer clear.

What is your grazing like at the moment?

How thin are his soles - do they flex on thumb pressure? Is there any possibility he may be abcessing?

Easyboots may suit him better if you wanted to try booting. They shouldn't rub due to the gaiter design.

If you don't want to boot him, then I would shoe again, but bear in mind that his feet are very sick, and a shoe doesn't offer any sole protection.

Also, how long has he been shod in front without a break?
 
MissMincePie&Brandy said:
I'm afaid that he's too sensitive for boots. I sold his boa boots - I bought some when we took the hinds off and they rubbed the bulbs of his heels raw, but he adapted quite well to having bare hind feet.
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Boa boots are not really the best.

Cavellos or Old Mac G2s are usually better tolerated by newly deshod horses.

Rubs can be avoided with socks and monitoring.

You need to weigh up the discomfort from a rubbed bit of skin against the discomfort he is currently in......
 
MissMincePie&Brandy said:
My retired TB had his hind shoes off over a year ago, and wasn't ever too badly sore when we removed those.
He was diagnosed with Navicular a couple of years ago, and my farrier had been trimming him well, keeping his toes short, and with shoes on, he was field sound, and I thought that he was now ready to have the front shoes removed.

Three days ago we removed the fronts (the ground is nice and soft and hopefully we wont get hard frosts for another month or so)
When we took them off I reminded the farrier to not trim his feet for a shoe, as I knew he'd be sore, so he just had a rasp to tidy them up and balance them a bit.
I'm applying sole paint on twice a day to try and harden them up, and I've given him a couple of butes a day ever since we took them off - but my horse is crippled when trying to walk on (flat, smooth) concrete. He's somewhat better once in the field, though obviously not sound.

Walking on concrete (to and from his stable), he takes tiny, short little steps and keeps stopping, hanging his head low (clearly in a lot of pain). It is also difficult for me to pick a front foot up, because he obviously hates the extra pressure on the other foot still on the ground.

My horse is very well, and healthy in himself, a perfect weight, glossy coat, and although the mechanics of his feet are rubbish due to his genetics & conformation, he does have a relatively normal degree of growth and the hoof wall is in decent condition, ie not crumbly or brittle.

I'm wondering how long I should allow, to wait for an improvement, before giving in and putting the shoes back on? I can't bear seeing him so sore :(
Click to expand...

I did this to an ex chaser I had - and have never felt so awful in all my life.

Had to have the vet up to administer some pretty heavy duty pain relief, and after a week the fronts went back on again.
 
This is just how my navicular TB was!
I panicked as he looked like he had laminitis, I gave him danilon for comfort, turned him out in cavallos with pads and to stop the heels rubbing I put padding in the heel area of the boots, the pads you put under bandages works well.
In at night on a deep shavings bed !
This works, far better than trying to put shoes on sore feet, my boy was really bad and if he can improve I am sure yours can too!
 
He may well be ok in a different type of boot one of my horses has boas and they are definatly more difficult than the old macs and easy boots back country's my other horses has.
Gaiters may help and one of mine is perfect in an old pop sock and old macs ( he looks silly though).
Don't give up on boots because one type did not suit.
 
although sore if he is old and always worn front shoes he may be effected by not hearing his front feet as he walks, this can be disconcerting to some horses.
 
I wonder if keeping the toes short has something to do with this... how are the heels and frog?
 
Thank you for your advise, I was worried I was being too hasty in wanting to put the shoes back on, but I've decided the best plan, is to box rest him for a couple of days in an extra deep bed, and I've called the farrier, and we're putting the front shoes back on at the end of the week!

Answering some of your questions:
He shares a 2 acre paddock with one other, it's poo picked daily and managed, and I would say the grass is good. I'd not want my warmblood who is a very good doer in the TBs paddock!

He definitively has no thrush, and the boa boots did fit him. I knew how imperatively important that was with this horse, and I had a rep come out from the saddlery to fit them to him! He also can't wear a Davis boot or a nappy if it comes up onto the heel or the skin of his pastern, as any sweating irritates his skin, even with socks, etc. He is so fine skinned that he was unable to wear neoprene brushing boots (back in the days when I rode him), because even an hour of sweating in them or wearing them on a rainy day would take the skin off his legs. The only bandages I found that he could wear were equilibriums stretch and flex bandages, and I had two sets that I used to wash after every use.

From my past experiences I don't think boots wouldn’t be an option with this horse unfortunately and, apart from stick on shoes, that I’m not sure how to get hold of easily, I think the best option is to get my farrier to pop the shoes back on the poor sausage ASAP.

Certainly the poor horse had a tough start in life - he is 17.2hh and at 3 years old he was in full training and at 4 he was racing over hurdles. I have no doubt that this is why his feet and skeletal frame are buggered, these stresses on such a large body at such a young age have probably weakened and altered his conformation. At least he has a safe retirement.
 
Sounds like you've decided barefoot won't work and there's nothing you can do to help him.

I'd say putting shoes back on is your best option :)

If you want to take him barefoot in the future, do some prep work first ;)

We can help you with that :)
 
Good luck, 3 days isn't long though. My farrier doesn't like glue on shoes as he says they restrict blood flow even more than regular shoes.
My mare is 16hh1 and started training at 2. I pulled the shoes 2 years ago and she's now 10. I saw lots of improvements in her body and hooves from going barefoot. Don't underestimate the capacity for the horse to heal if correct hoof mechanism can be reestablished. It did take her a few month to get back to full work though.
 
Given what you say about boots, I would have got hold of an Easyboot Glove fit kit, worked out which size was a snug fit for him, and then bought a set of shells with no gaiters.

These are secure enough to stay on for a walk out to field, and easy to pop on for a walk back from field, but don't touch anything that would rub. Would have given the horse a chance to gradually get used to having his feet back in the field and in stable, without having to wince over the hard surfaces.
 
Oberon said:
How?
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I assume that's because the whole perimeter of the foot (and sometimes the sole too) is attached to the shoe by the glue instead of just a few spots with the nails, but I haven't asked him. PM me if you want details to get in touch with him, he is well known in the barefoot community (he is also UKNHCP).
 
Palindrome said:
I assume that's because the whole perimeter of the foot (and sometimes the sole too) is attached to the shoe by the glue instead of just a few spots with the nails, but I haven't asked him. PM me if you want details to get in touch with him, he is well known in the barefoot community (he is also UKNHCP).
Click to expand...

Hmm. Interesting.

Mark Johnson?
 
FWIW, when I was galloping horses back in the States we went through a glue on shoe phase. Now I wasn't one to be paying attention to foot mechanics at the time but quite a few of these did not go as well as previous ones with aluminium nail on's. They ended up more rigid in movement. That's just by what I was feeling while on board. Wasn't impressed. Not that that has anything to do with anything really!

OP I'm sorry about your boy. I'm recently new to bare with 4. All different. Even my 17 YO ex chaser who has probably been in fronts since at least 3 has had the shoes off. Previous attempts all failed and I put shoes back on pretty quick. What I will say is this. I took all the shoes off almost at the end of the cycle. Well my husband did very carefully. Then we just let the feet be. The nail hole areas cracked and everyone looked pretty crap but yet they were sound. My regular blacksmith was out last week just to tidy some edges. I was specific in that the feet still had to get stronger and had more to do on their own without intervention. Now I will say the 17yo picked up a little puncture he would have gotten in shoes so he has one foot wrapped and medicated currently. I didn't rasp him. But he was soooo much better this time with his shoes off. Mine are all great on concrete. They are a tad footy going out to fields as the stoney muck enterance is what they hate. Get out to soft dryish grazing and fine. But I know that if I waited for my blacksmith to take off the shoes and then make them look like perfect little feet all would have been crippled. It's why all my attempts at just pulling the shoes has been dreadful. Their diet is good and I'm ultra careful with grazing. It was the missing link. Just might be helpful if you try again.

Terri
 
If he is ok on the field, can't he wear boots to come across concrete...even if v fine skinned a few minutes with boots on won't hurt? Then he could have a while longer to recover...?
Is it just due to the shoes off or could it be puss in foot?he sounds very sore....
 
I took the shoes off my old retired TB at the start of the year, who was lame with an arthritic coffin joint. He's was quite footy to start with but I perservered. He's much sounder in the field without shoes on but never really gets the opportunity to harden his feet by going on other surfaces besides grass. Consequently he's quite hobbly when he comes up the stony track to the stables. Fine on concrete now. Overall not so lame due to the arthritis so I stick with it.
 
Look at easy boot gloves, I've no experience of them but I'm looking at boots for mine and these don't touch any area where they could rub.
 
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