News on injured horses and riders at badminton

teapot said:
Elizabeth Powell is reportedly absolutely fine despite the bang to her head (according to H&C on twitter). Good news :D
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Very pleased to hear this. We were at the fence at the time. It was very worrying until we could see someone talking to her. Then "Phew!":)

I was surprised Karen O'Connor carried on after her first two stops tbh. Maybe she felt she needed to re-establish confidence. (Again I was at the fence where he refused) I was not surprised when I heard she had retired and hoped he hadnt fallen. But as someone else said, hindsight is a wonderful thing and i am sure she is thinking she should have stopped after the first two refusals.
Now i will have to watch the highlights to see what happened! :)
 
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I was quite surprised at Karen carrying on too. I did feel rather sorry for David O'Connor trying to get out of the commentary box to go find her, and yet being asked to stay for further questions. :o
 
CastleMouse said:
I don't think it was the Air Jacket either. I'm not sure how long it would take for a broken rib to heal, but I'm sure his confidence has been severely knocked. He's only an 11 year old too, so it's a real pity :(

One horse who's rider (I can't think of her name right now) hopped off without unclipping her Point 2 didn't even seem to notice the noise!
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Alice Pearson on Beau Bear- horse didn't even flinch and it looked fairly full of running at the end so not too tired to bother, iyswim.
 
Im just surprised why there isnt a fining system in BE as there is in racing, if a horse is obviously tired, why is a rider allowed to ride it on until it falls.
 
henryhorn said:
I tend to agree with thoroughlybred1, it was my first thought that she chucked the reins in temper, her entire body language afterwards reeked of fury as she walked off with him.
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I thought that, the horse looked like it was ready for a reaction from Karen, and took a step back as he probably thought he was going to get a sock in the teeth or something similar...
 
My friend (Jiffs physio) has just told me that he is fit and well, no problems at all after his fall yesterday. Said he got mega cocky after his run last year and thought he knew best at the pick-ups. Luckily none the worse for wear but hopefully will listen to Camilla a little more next time!
 
I'm just resurrecting this thread.
Interesting that in this week's Horse and Hound article about broken ribs in horses (incl photos of the entire incident), it says:

"Karen believes Mandiba took fright at her air jacket going off while on top of the bank, which caused him to run backwards and fall.
'I reached forward to grab hold of him and as I did so the lanyon became detached and went off with a bang,' she said."


So, those of us who suspected that that was the cause, are actually backed up by the rider who was right there and knows the horse very well.
 
kerilli said:
I'm just resurrecting this thread.
Interesting that in this week's Horse and Hound article about broken ribs in horses (incl photos of the entire incident), it says:

"Karen believes Mandiba took fright at her air jacket going off while on top of the bank, which caused him to run backwards and fall.
'I reached forward to grab hold of him and as I did so the lanyon became detached and went off with a bang,' she said."


So, those of us who suspected that that was the cause, are actually backed up by the rider who was right there and knows the horse very well.
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Exactly the reason I dont wear one of these. My horse would go absolutely nuts if he heard it go off.
 
MagicMelon said:
Exactly the reason I dont wear one of these. My horse would go absolutely nuts if he heard it go off.
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So would 1 of mine, i doubt the other would care. but the spooky one... i think i need to record a gunshot going off and play it repeatedly to desensitise her, otherwise someone else's airjacket going off in warm-up might cause us to have a major drama!
this was my biggest concern with them when the idea was first mooted, tbh.
 
kerilli said:
he stopped twice at the same flower bed, then she got him over, then next fence was the big bank and he jumped up fine then stopped suddenly, she came off, i think she jerked the reins (not sure) and he stepped back fast and fell backwards down the big step, landed on his side on edge of ditch. got up immediately and set off down the course, but looked sore. she looked totally livid as she stalked after him... :( :( he's a lovely horse but i think he's had too much too soon and hasn't got the bottle for it, no matter how good the jockey.
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[youtube]PbYs3CchV8A[/youtube]

IMHO if you watch this you can hear the "phut" of the airjacket going off as the commentator says "Oooh" whilst she is still on top of the log, she can be seen partially inflated as she lands on the ground, then she steps towards the horse with her whip up. Now, I am NOT saying that she intended to hit the horse (her whip just happened to be there, how many of us would think to lower it after a fall like that?) or jerk the reins but he was obviously frightened of something and it could have been any one or combination of airbag, whip, reins and rider.

I do think that if the rider intended to say, in the H&H report, "He was fine until the airbag went off after I was off the log whilst I was approaching him on the bank" then another look by her at the footage is in order.

Other sets of eyes may read it differently from me of course:D

Just to add, of course if you want to appear aggressive and threatening to another animal then you make yourself seem as large as possible. Perhaps this is an as yet un-investigated downside to airbags?
 
What about the noise that the crowd makes when something like this happens? That many peopple going Oooh! and Eek! together makes a lot of noise - I wonder if this may have had any affect at the same time as the other factors?
 
He jumps back away from her, not the crowd. It's a matter of opinion I suppose if some people think it's because of the jacket exploding, and others think he is frightened of her coming at him with a whip.

My first thought when watching the vid was the jacket exploding made him jump backwards and fall off the step.
 
I agree with you Jemima_too- I went and looked at Youtube after this thread was resurrected and imo there was a definite gap between the jacket going off the the horse going backwards- it did look more to me like he reacted to her reaching out for him for some reason.

I do worry about people hacking out if they are worried they can't control their horses when the noise occurs- what happens if you hack past a bird scarer??
A bird scarer is infinitely louder than an air jacket going off...?

And for what it's worth, my mare is super-reactive to noise (really struggles with tannoys at events) and was absolutely fine when my jacket exploded under her nose.
 
Karen said that Mandiba was frightened by the air bag and she tried to hold him to stop him going back over the bank but he pulled back away from her. She also said that watching him fall was really scary, as was getting to him and seeing his injury, so maybe what some people interpreted as anger was, in fact, worry. Many people look quite fierce when they are anxious.
He is recovering well and will be going back to the States fairly soon.
 
millitiger said:
I agree with you Jemima_too- I went and looked at Youtube after this thread was resurrected and imo there was a definite gap between the jacket going off the the horse going backwards- it did look more to me like he reacted to her reaching out for him for some reason.

I do worry about people hacking out if they are worried they can't control their horses when the noise occurs- what happens if you hack past a bird scarer??
A bird scarer is infinitely louder than an air jacket going off...?

And for what it's worth, my mare is super-reactive to noise (really struggles with tannoys at events) and was absolutely fine when my jacket exploded under her nose.
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i'd never take my mare within a foot of a bird scarer. the airjacket is that close to the horse, huge difference imho.
i defy anyone, however brilliant or experienced they think they are, to control a genuinely panicking horse. you have absolutely NO SAY at all. if you're lucky you remain a passenger until the flight instinct abates and the horse's usual rationality returns, until then you can do nothing.

i can't replay the vids at the moment for some reason, but i couldn't be sure about when the jacket went off when i watched previously. i'm very inclined to believe the very experienced rider's on-the-spot testimony though...
 
kerilli said:
i'd never take my mare within a foot of a bird scarer. the airjacket is that close to the horse, huge difference imho.
i defy anyone, however brilliant or experienced they think they are, to control a genuinely panicking horse. you have absolutely NO SAY at all. if you're lucky you remain a passenger until the flight instinct abates and the horse's usual rationality returns, until then you can do nothing.

i can't replay the vids at the moment for some reason, but i couldn't be sure about when the jacket went off when i watched previously. i'm very inclined to believe the very experienced rider's on-the-spot testimony though...
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I'm not saying you would take your horse right up to a bird scarer... obviously ;)

As I said a bird scarer is far louder than the air jacket if you were the same distance away, hence a bird scarer a few fields away is a similar noise to the air jacket going off next to you.

I do stick by my opinion that it is worrying if people are hacking and competing on horses that are so worried by a momentary noise that they would completely panic and lose their senses to the point where the rider has no control.
 
kerilli said:
i'd never take my mare within a foot of a bird scarer. the airjacket is that close to the horse, huge difference imho.
i defy anyone, however brilliant or experienced they think they are, to control a genuinely panicking horse. you have absolutely NO SAY at all. if you're lucky you remain a passenger until the flight instinct abates and the horse's usual rationality returns, until then you can do nothing.

i can't replay the vids at the moment for some reason, but i couldn't be sure about when the jacket went off when i watched previously. i'm very inclined to believe the very experienced rider's on-the-spot testimony though...
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The airjacket is much quieter than a bird scarer. The bird scarers round us are audible from several fields away, yet two weekends ago I was a hundred yards from a fall and it wasn't until I got there to try to help that I realised the rider had an (inflated) jacket on, thank god, as he was under the horse, which was thrashing round trying to get up:(

And yes, a genuinely panicked horse is unstoppable by any human and a terrifying thing to deal with.

However when you can watch the vids again, do. I have no argument that the rider is very experienced and that, of course, she was there BUT she had just been through the stressful experience of two stops followed by a fall and then the chest hugging grip of the airjacket and I know that those circumstances can play tricks on one's recollection of the order of events. That's why I think all fences should have videos on them as those people watching falls often have different recollections of what happened even if they were watching from the same car, and that's different again from what the rider thought!

I'd be interested to know what you see when you can see the videos. The main thing is that the rider is fine and the horse recovering.
 
I think it's the act of falling off, usually after a stop or fall of horse itself, which already unsettles/upsets most horses, coupled with the noise of the air jacket going off and the rider going rigid and blowing up in front of them that frightens the horse, as opposed to just the noise in something like a bird scarer.
 
Saratoga said:
I think it's the act of falling off, usually after a stop or fall of horse itself, which already unsettles/upsets most horses, coupled with the noise of the air jacket going off and the rider going rigid and blowing up in front of them that frightens the horse, as opposed to just the noise in something like a bird scarer.
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ditto this.
right, to explain further: of course i realise that a bird scarer is louder, but obviously it is also much further away. horses, being prey animals with great hearing, will regard a sudden noise very close to them as a far bigger threat than a louder noise a few fields away...
BUT this particular mare of mine had a very heightened flight reflex. i've spent 5 years patiently downgrading it, and she doesn't flinch at bird scarers now. we have hacked within a field of them, at times within about 80 yards of one, but i don't trust that i've totally lobotomised that area of her brain! if i popped and inflated at her feet, I doubt she'd cope well. ;) ;) ;)
as for Karen, afaik she still wears an airjacket.
 
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kerilli said:
ditto this.
right, to explain further: of course i realise that a bird scarer is louder, but obviously it is also much further away. horses, being prey animals with great hearing, will regard a sudden noise very close to them as a far bigger threat than a louder noise a few fields away...
BUT this particular mare of mine had a very heightened flight reflex. i've spent 5 years patiently downgrading it, and she doesn't flinch at bird scarers now. we have hacked within a field of them, at times within about 80 yards of one, but i don't trust that i've totally lobotomised that area of her brain! if i popped and inflated at her feet, I doubt she'd cope well. ;) ;) ;)
as for Karen, afaik she still wears an airjacket.
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You say this, however a horse I ride is the spookiest and most unpredictable horse I have ever sat on in my life. He is an absolute nightmare to take XC as you can never get into a rhythm as he is so busy looking at anything and everything, therefore I was a little concerned at how he would react if my jacket went off. However when I jumped off with it still attached BEFORE I went XC, he didn't even bat an eyelid, although I was absolutely furious with myself!

At the time I was under the impression that there was a delay between the air jacket going off and him running backwards, but to be honest I haven't actually seen a slowed down version and it is difficult to see on the clip that has been posted.
 
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