News on my boy - could it have been ulcers and not KS?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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So my boy has been 'retired' after intensive rehab following radical surgery to remove five spinal processes. I had given up on him and retired him as I just couldn't cope with his explosions after the girth was tightened. I had asked the vet about getting him scoped for ulcers as a last ditch attempt to get to the bottom of it, last summer. Vet was sure he didn't have them, and I was, quite frankly shattered after being disappointed time and time again. But suddenly I woke up one morning and decided to just try him on some ulcer treatment for a week (started Monday). Anyway, I put a saddle on him today and lunged him with the girth tight (did it in stages). He did not react at all. :eek: Now I know I mustn't get my hopes up. They have been dashed so many times before, but I wonder? Could he have had all that surgery for nothing? Could it be gastric ulcers? I guess I won't know for sure until I try to get on him, which I might do at the weekend ...gulp. I must admit, I am scared. I am not as young as I used to be and if he is going to 'explode' it comes out of nowhere and is the full works, rearing spinning and bucking. Wish me luck...:eek:
 
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I would suspect its both. If he's had to have drastic surgery then it must be pretty serious and the pain arising from the KS may have triggered ulcers. So you've alleviated one problem and maybe the treating ulcers is the final piece of the puzzle.

In any event, good luck. I'm sure you will, but make sure someone is around if you get on again.

As a point of interest, what did you use as a ulcer treatment?
 
If you're anywhere approaching my age then I think I'd be inclined to lunge him again with a weighted sack securely strapped to the saddle before getting on:)
 
I don't know anything about ulcers, but very often when a vet diagnoses something there's something else going on too, not necessarily related to whatever it is they've found. I'd say its very possible.

Good luck! :)
 
dixie said:
I would suspect its both. If he's had to have drastic surgery then it must be pretty serious and the pain arising from the KS may have triggered ulcers. So you've alleviated one problem and maybe the treating ulcers is the final piece of the puzzle.

In any event, good luck. I'm sure you will, but make sure someone is around if you get on again.

As a point of interest, what did you use as a ulcer treatment?
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Thank you. One of my livery clients had bought some Abprazole from Abler.com. I bought some off her. So same thing as gastroguard.
 
Slave2Magic said:
It definately sounds worth a try. Stay safe though. What treatment has he been on?
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jemima*askin said:
If you're anywhere approaching my age then I think I'd be inclined to lunge him again with a weighted sack securely strapped to the saddle before getting on:)
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Flame_ said:
I don't know anything about ulcers, but very often when a vet diagnoses something there's something else going on too, not necessarily related to whatever it is they've found. I'd say its very possible.

Good luck! :)
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Thank you! Yes, I will make sure some one is around. Makes sense too that the KS could cause ulcers. :(
 
It could be a mixture of a quiet life and the supplement? Couldnt hurt to try :) echo the idea of a weighted sack though
 
Delicious_D said:
It could be a mixture of a quiet life and the supplement? Couldnt hurt to try :) echo the idea of a weighted sack though
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I am a bit worried it is just the rest that has meant he has come back okay, and that he will revert back to the old problem again. I am not sure what to use for the weight though. Want to make sure it doesn't frighten him. He's a typical highly strung TB.
 
Shadeyoak said:
Only time and patience will tell :) Sounds like there's a glimmer of hope here x
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Yes. he has never reacted so well before to a saddle with a tight girth. But he has been really good and made real progress in the past, only to suddenly explode again out of the blue. So hard to know.
 
When you say explode when the girth is tightened what do you mean? Buck, bronc?

How does he react if you do the girth up, say over a half hour period in stages.

My guess is he probably had the ulcers before too and it's probably a combination of the KS surgery and ulcers being treated.

Fingers crossed you could have your horse back, but i'd lunge him for a few more days and perhaps see if you could get a brave, LW jockey to get on him first if you're worried? Not sure why ulcers would make a horse want to explode and chuck rider off? Would think that would be more to do with the KS and the explosion re girthing a result of the ulcers.
 
Hi wagtail, my ex racer used to do this – fine one min the next bronc, rear buck (usually at full gallop) – unfortunately we lost him late last year. We did get another ex racer in Nov who is the complete opposite and quiet as a lamb … I’ve seen people use a guy faulkes type dummy before – not sure if you could perhaps do something like that?? x
 
my lad had ulcers and this was his exact reaction. once saddle was on and girth tight he would 'explode' its could also be triggered when riding and come from no where and he wound leap and bound about and a rate of knotts until some give eithe me or the saddle and seemed to be seasonal so wheb he came back in off the grass and in for winter.

good luck and i wish u the best to start riding ur horse even just little walks around! mines been ulcer free for 18months and never been better although now we have lameness issues :-(
 
It could be caused by either.. I have 1 ex-racer with 5 vertebrae kissing who is girthy & grumpy so she sees the osteo every 6 months to keep her going, I have another tb who was so girthy that he would run backwards and lay down when his girth was done up, his was ulcers (which have now been treated.) Plus if it is ulcers they can be caused by boxrest/antibiotics/Painkillers - that's what caused them with my gelding.. he had 7 months box rest.
 
My WB had ulcers as a secondary symptom to his chronic pain from his sacro illiac problem. So could well have been both. As an aside I had a tieback operation performed on a horse once only to discover that the horse was actually stressed under saddle and not struggling to breathe at all :(
 
Could you try a mcardle (think thats the name) wonder if you could hire one expensive, but worth it in your case i think, or get very ingenious with your dummy making.
 
The ulcers could have been caused by the pain/stress/discomfort of the kissing spines so I doubt you have operated needlessly.

In your situation, I would think of getting in a good, well recommended rider for the first few rides as some horses (particularly spooky/nervy ones) can be even more unnerved by 'dummy' riders or weights being used.
 
How about going back to backing and just leaning over a couple of times, leave it until next time, lean over and walk around a bit etc, next time sit up and walk round a bit and so on. Just so it's not "Oh god! A rider-this might hurt, oo I'm all tense now eep!" Buck, buck, buck, it's more "oh, what's this? Oh that was easy, goody, back to my hay" Calm, calm ,calm.

Just a thought. :)
 
coffeeandabagel said:
Sounds as if the pain / stress could have triggered the ulcers. Take care, take precautions, take photos........so we can see him You must love him a lot to have persevered.
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Yes, I will post some pictures of him up. He really is a character and makes me laugh so much. Obviously not with his saddling issues though!

Perfect_Pirouette said:
When you say explode when the girth is tightened what do you mean? Buck, bronc?

How does he react if you do the girth up, say over a half hour period in stages.

My guess is he probably had the ulcers before too and it's probably a combination of the KS surgery and ulcers being treated.

Fingers crossed you could have your horse back, but i'd lunge him for a few more days and perhaps see if you could get a brave, LW jockey to get on him first if you're worried? Not sure why ulcers would make a horse want to explode and chuck rider off? Would think that would be more to do with the KS and the explosion re girthing a result of the ulcers.
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He has never reacted to the weight of a rider on his back. His explosions always follow tightening the girth. So if I have to do it whilst on him, then this will trigger an explosion, not whilst I am doing it but in the seconds/minutes after it has been done. By explode I mean sudden fit of bucking, rearing and spinning, followed by freezing to the spot shaking and sides spasming. I am worried that because he has not been ridden for so long though that he might react to the weight of me on him even if I don't tighten the girth. I used to have to ride him with the girth hanging loose!

Victoria25 said:
Hi wagtail, my ex racer used to do this – fine one min the next bronc, rear buck (usually at full gallop) – unfortunately we lost him late last year. We did get another ex racer in Nov who is the complete opposite and quiet as a lamb … I’ve seen people use a guy faulkes type dummy before – not sure if you could perhaps do something like that?? x
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Wierd, isn't it? I can cope fine with a horse that say might bronc going into canter, but sudden explosions and panic attacks are really scary.

BigGinger said:
my lad had ulcers and this was his exact reaction. once saddle was on and girth tight he would 'explode' its could also be triggered when riding and come from no where and he wound leap and bound about and a rate of knotts until some give eithe me or the saddle and seemed to be seasonal so wheb he came back in off the grass and in for winter.

good luck and i wish u the best to start riding ur horse even just little walks around! mines been ulcer free for 18months and never been better although now we have lameness issues :-(
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That's good to hear. Maybe it IS ulcers then. We have a mare with them on the yard but she reacts completely different. She doesn't 'explode', she just naps and refuses to go forwards. Sadly she was starved at her last yard which we think is what caused her ulcers. But they keep recurring and so she is kept on a maintenance dose of abprazole.

Ginger Bear said:
It could be caused by either.. I have 1 ex-racer with 5 vertebrae kissing who is girthy & grumpy so she sees the osteo every 6 months to keep her going, I have another tb who was so girthy that he would run backwards and lay down when his girth was done up, his was ulcers (which have now been treated.) Plus if it is ulcers they can be caused by boxrest/antibiotics/Painkillers - that's what caused them with my gelding.. he had 7 months box rest.
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Sounds like the reaction of the second horse. If he reacts whilst not being ridden, he will run backwards and have a panic attack like he's going to die and shake and spasm all over.

YasandCrystal said:
My WB had ulcers as a secondary symptom to his chronic pain from his sacro illiac problem. So could well have been both. As an aside I had a tieback operation performed on a horse once only to discover that the horse was actually stressed under saddle and not struggling to breathe at all :(
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Oh no! I wish we could talk to them. Would save so much heartache.

mjcssjw2 said:
Could you try a mcardle (think thats the name) wonder if you could hire one expensive, but worth it in your case i think, or get very ingenious with your dummy making.
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I think I am going to get on him myself, but not before he passes all tests of his girthiness. I am going to try him with the equiami tomorrow, as having something around his bottom attached to the lunge roller would also set him off. Will do a session in that a few times as well as the saddle with tight girth before getting on him. And will also make sure someone is there with me.

millitiger said:
The ulcers could have been caused by the pain/stress/discomfort of the kissing spines so I doubt you have operated needlessly.

In your situation, I would think of getting in a good, well recommended rider for the first few rides as some horses (particularly spooky/nervy ones) can be even more unnerved by 'dummy' riders or weights being used.
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Someone who doesn't value their life! I do know someone who I could ask, but really, I sort of think he's my responsibility and risk. Though I can't afford to get hurt as I run this livery single handed.
 
Beausmate said:
How about going back to backing and just leaning over a couple of times, leave it until next time, lean over and walk around a bit etc, next time sit up and walk round a bit and so on. Just so it's not "Oh god! A rider-this might hurt, oo I'm all tense now eep!" Buck, buck, buck, it's more "oh, what's this? Oh that was easy, goody, back to my hay" Calm, calm ,calm.

Just a thought. :)
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Yes, I will lean over first. I won't ride for long either when I first get on. Just a couple of circles and build it up. :)
 
Yes, really scarey ... I actually put up with it and perhaps told myself he was getting better but every now and again even just tied up with a saddle on he'd suddently snap where he was tied to and bronc off down into the field ... very very wierd. It took me 8 months to finally ride him but even then he'd walk like a donkey then you could feel the energy in him ...

Once there was four of us out on a ride - the lady (who I dont really know) at the backs horse tried to get down and roll (so I was told) but she got it up and it took off towards the front - my lad instead of just jigging about or ignoring her set off in his own bronc/leap in the air/buck ... at 16.2 and built like a brick *****house petrifiying ... we actually lost him when he jumped over/ran through (we dont know) two lots of fencing, a very long back garden, literally through a garden shed and off a 15ft drop ... :confused:
 
Beausmate said:
Can you get hold of an air jacket for the sitting on bit?
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I don't think so. But I will make sure I wear my body protector.

Victoria25 said:
Yes, really scarey ... I actually put up with it and perhaps told myself he was getting better but every now and again even just tied up with a saddle on he'd suddently snap where he was tied to and bronc off down into the field ... very very wierd. It took me 8 months to finally ride him but even then he'd walk like a donkey then you could feel the energy in him ...

Once there was four of us out on a ride - the lady (who I dont really know) at the backs horse tried to get down and roll (so I was told) but she got it up and it took off towards the front - my lad instead of just jigging about or ignoring her set off in his own bronc/leap in the air/buck ... at 16.2 and built like a brick *****house petrifiying ... we actually lost him when he jumped over/ran through (we dont know) two lots of fencing, a very long back garden, literally through a garden shed and off a 15ft drop ... :confused:
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That's so awful. Did you ever find out what was wrong with him? My boy will sometimes suddenly panic with the saddle when tied up and snap the string and bronc around the yard. Sounds very similar. But it is all saddle related with him.
 
No we didnt find out - temprament wise a 5 year old could lead him about/play with him .. he didnt like being brushed all that much or rugs being swapped ... :confused: grumpy old man syndrome? x
 
Could you try an RSTor or make something similar yourself? I've not used one myself but know quite a few people who have and they come highly recommended. Think they are about £45. I'm tempted myself as my boy can very occasionally throw his toys out the pram or get excitable and I don't bounce very well! And I don't really have time to hit the deck and be off work!
 
sugarpuff said:
Could you try an RSTor or make something similar yourself? I've not used one myself but know quite a few people who have and they come highly recommended. Think they are about £45. I'm tempted myself as my boy can very occasionally throw his toys out the pram or get excitable and I don't bounce very well! And I don't really have time to hit the deck and be off work!
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Ah yes, I've been meaning to get one of those. Thanks for the reminder!
 
or a good old stirrup leather neckstrap :D

It depends what you are like OP, but if you think you maybe tense, due to the history then it would be worth getting a pro in to sit on first time maybe as likely your horse will be anticipating discomfort too.
 
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