News on my boy - could it have been ulcers and not KS?

[bounce]

I think I would do as others have suggested and continue lunging for a little longer plus try some weight in the saddle also.

I have a horse with kissing spine who also had ulcers. He had the op and had 4 removed and was I thought successfully through all the rehab process but he started broncing again as soon as the girth was done up. We rechecked to make sure the ulcers had not come back but they had not. We also went back through the process of eliminating all other possible issues but it seems that it is quite possibly a mental block that the horse is expecting to be in pain.

I had to get loss of use on mine and he is a field ornament as it is far too dangerous to attempt tacking up. Strangely he was fine once you were on and would hack out with no issues. But girthing, even so the girth was only just touching him would cause explosive results. Even a lunge roller and some days a weigh tape could get the same reaction.

Good luck and be careful.

 

[Wagtail]

or a good old stirrup leather neckstrap

It depends what you are like OP, but if you think you maybe tense, due to the history then it would be worth getting a pro in to sit on first time maybe as likely your horse will be anticipating discomfort too.

With me, it all depends on my state of mind on the day. I can be quite nervous some days, especially if I do not feel physically 100%, but other days I can take on the world and don't have a nervous bone in my body. I'm wierd!

I think I would do as others have suggested and continue lunging for a little longer plus try some weight in the saddle also.

I have a horse with kissing spine who also had ulcers. He had the op and had 4 removed and was I thought successfully through all the rehab process but he started broncing again as soon as the girth was done up. We rechecked to make sure the ulcers had not come back but they had not. We also went back through the process of eliminating all other possible issues but it seems that it is quite possibly a mental block that the horse is expecting to be in pain.

I had to get loss of use on mine and he is a field ornament as it is far too dangerous to attempt tacking up. Strangely he was fine once you were on and would hack out with no issues. But girthing, even so the girth was only just touching him would cause explosive results. Even a lunge roller and some days a weigh tape could get the same reaction.

Good luck and be careful.

Heck, that sounds just like my boy! He's only exploded the once with me on him and that was just after I'd tightened the girth. He would be a nightmare to saddle, but once I was on, he was fine. But the last few times I rode him during rehab, he felt really tense, like he might just freak out. He would do the same with the roller. One day fine, the next, explosive. I will make sure I test him to the limits with all his 'triggers' before attempting to ride him.

 

[Arizahn]

Good luck, and maybe have a couple of people there with a leadrope at either side to hang on to him in case the worst occurs?

 

[Wagtail]

Good luck, and maybe have a couple of people there with a leadrope at either side to hang on to him in case the worst occurs?

Yes, I will have at least one person there, maybe two to lead me around.

Here he is, for those wanting a pic:

 

[Arizahn]

Aw, he's lovely! Very characterful picture

 

[Wagtail]

Aw, he's lovely! Very characterful picture

Thank you. He's a real joker. He used to make me jump when handling him and he would spook as though he was some kind of nervous wreck. He never did it ridden. Then one day I realised it was just his way of having fun and he was not scared at all, and that is when we bonded. He makes me laugh.

I have always though that his reaction to the girth was genuine and not remembered pain. If it was remembered pain, he would do it more to start with and not suddenly out of the blue after being fine for a while. I think he gets sudden stbbing pain that frightens him. I just hope that it was ulcers and that he won't do it again. We shall see.

 

[Wagtail]

Thank you. He's a real joker. He used to make me jump when handling him and he would spook as though he was some kind of nervous wreck. He never did it ridden. Then one day I realised it was just his way of having fun and he was not scared at all, and that is when we bonded. He makes me laugh.

I have always though that his reaction to the girth was genuine and not remembered pain. If it was remembered pain, he would do it more to start with and not suddenly out of the blue after being fine for a while. I think he gets sudden stbbing pain that frightens him. I just hope that it was ulcers and that he won't do it again. We shall see.

Lunged him in the equi ami earlier and got no resistance whatsoever. Normally I would really have to drive him forwards and he would frequently panic and turn in.

 

[Beausmate]

Sounds promising

 

[_GG_]

Wagtail...he is stunning. Just to add a few thoughts...

Horse over the road had ks surgery in November. T11 to T18
He was bleedin awful when he started on the lunge and would properly explode when girthed. Everyone, including me thought he would never come right.

Fast forward to now and this morning, he was the nanny horse that took the lead for my babies first hack this morning. He has been gently hacking and schooling and even popped a few small jumps.

It is highly likely that the ks in your boy was all or partly responsible for ulcers and although ks is sorted, ulcers have been untreated.

I think you are right to give your boy another chance. I bet if you let him, he will surprise you

Also, I have a trick for introducing weight and it was used very successfully on the horse mentioned and every horse I have ever backed.

Tie a very full haynet securely to each stirrup bar and attach also at the girth.

I like this because when a horse stands and accepts the weight, they can get an instant reward

Good luck and do keep us updated. )

 

[Wagtail]

Wagtail...he is stunning. Just to add a few thoughts...

Horse over the road had ks surgery in November. T11 to T18
He was bleedin awful when he started on the lunge and would properly explode when girthed. Everyone, including me thought he would never come right.

Fast forward to now and this morning, he was the nanny horse that took the lead for my babies first hack this morning. He has been gently hacking and schooling and even popped a few small jumps.

It is highly likely that the ks in your boy was all or partly responsible for ulcers and although ks is sorted, ulcers have been untreated.

I think you are right to give your boy another chance. I bet if you let him, he will surprise you

Also, I have a trick for introducing weight and it was used very successfully on the horse mentioned and every horse I have ever backed.

Tie a very full haynet securely to each stirrup bar and attach also at the girth.

I like this because when a horse stands and accepts the weight, they can get an instant reward

Good luck and do keep us updated. )

That's a very good idea, and easy to do. Thank you. Very reassuring story too about the horse over the road. It's nice to hear some positive stories.

I have been heart broken over my boy as had sort of decided to send him to the blood bank, partly because he really needs a job to do and in the winter,when they only get 2 - 3 hours turnout in the sand, he gets naughtier and naughtier to handle as he's so full of mischief, and partly due to finances because we have a son starting uni this year and have no idea how we are going to fund him. I was going to have to part with one of my horses and get in another livery. Even before this latest development I was having bad dreams about him going and could not bear to part with him, and he had actually started to get better behaved, and good as gold this past few weeks. Trouble is, now I have a good excuse to keep him, but how am I going to break it to hubby? I will still take on another livery which will be hard work for me, but I think I may be in trouble.

 

[Arizahn]

Well, look at it this way, you already invested loads in this horse dealing with the ks, so giving up now is financially illogical if he can come right! You are just um, holding on to your investment. Yes, that's it. He's an investment

 

[Wagtail]

Well, look at it this way, you already invested loads in this horse dealing with the ks, so giving up now is financially illogical if he can come right! You are just um, holding on to your investment. Yes, that's it. He's an investment

Lol, yes, I like it! Not only the KS, but the year before he had to have an op to remove a bone fragment from his hock. He's cost us many £.

I will have to make up for it some how. Take on another livery, work really hard to cut down on my spending... Everyone is struggling at the moment. Thing is, I can't properly ride my mare, she's probably never going to come consistently right, I'm going to need a horse to ride at some stage and this will save buying another in the future. When we eventually sell this place (in a few years time) and down size, my mare will need a companion. And I just adore this horse.

 

[Arizahn]

Then you are simply being perfectly sensible and planning for the future

 

[_GG_]

As with as any investment, you have to speculate to accumulate ;-)

You've speculated...now it is time to.enjoy him. Hubby will be ok, they always are eventually x

 

[Holly Hocks]

I really hope that after all your heartache trying to get him right, you may have found the last piece of the puzzle. Good luck if you decide to get on board.....

 

[_GG_]

Ann, Holy Hocks wrote what I was thinking but forgot to
Good luck and regarding getting on...you know this horse, better than anyone. So if you think he is ready and will be ok, go for it. With caution obviously...but trust your gut instinct.

 

[coffeeandabagel]

Lovely boy, but.......looking at that picture, quickly, on my phone, it does look as if he has 6 legs. Could that be the problem. Surprised the vet didn't say anything tbh.

 

[Wagtail]

Then you are simply being perfectly sensible and planning for the future

As with as any investment, you have to speculate to accumulate ;-)

You've speculated...now it is time to.enjoy him. Hubby will be ok, they always are eventually x

Lol I'm not sure hubby sees it that way, but he was really nice about it, bless him. He does love the animals, obviously doesn't get to know the horses as much as I do, but he understands...I think.

I really hope that after all your heartache trying to get him right, you may have found the last piece of the puzzle. Good luck if you decide to get on board.....

Thank you.

Ann, Holy Hocks wrote what I was thinking but forgot to
Good luck and regarding getting on...you know this horse, better than anyone. So if you think he is ready and will be ok, go for it. With caution obviously...but trust your gut instinct.

At the moment my instinct says he will be ok. Just hope it's right!

Lovely boy, but.......looking at that picture, quickly, on my phone, it does look as if he has 6 legs. Could that be the problem. Surprised the vet didn't say anything tbh.

What? Oh no! He went to Rossdales twice as well. Sheesh, vets eh?

 

[maggiehorse]

I count 7 legs..clever horsie

 

[soulfull]

As others have said it does sound like ulcers. Emil was very girthy with his. With him it was in canter that he first started bucking and freaking out. Then got worse and was like it in trot and would refuse to go forward Like u said the pain actually frightened him, so much so that fast forward to after they had healed and I was riding one day and he needed a poo. He must have had a bit of tummy ache with it as he refused to go forward and got really panicky. He really was afraid he had the pain back.
He is fine now thankfully

Wish u lots of luck

 

[Wagtail]

As others have said it does sound like ulcers. Emil was very girthy with his. With him it was in canter that he first started bucking and freaking out. Then got worse and was like it in trot and would refuse to go forward Like u said the pain actually frightened him, so much so that fast forward to after they had healed and I was riding one day and he needed a poo. He must have had a bit of tummy ache with it as he refused to go forward and got really panicky. He really was afraid he had the pain back.
He is fine now thankfully

Wish u lots of luck

That sounds really good news. I just wish I'd done this earlier. I really had given up on him. One thing I wasn't having though, was that it was remembered pain. That is what all the vets tell you after KS surgery, that they have been cured, but some never get past the memory and expectation of pain. I know my boy was reacting to something real.

I just hope that this time I am able to cure him.

 

[SpottedCat]

Haven't read all the replies, but if you suspect ulcers insist your vet scopes him. Some ulcers are caused by bacterial infection so omaprazole won't heal them. Also, if you know it's ulcers and they've been treated, won't you feel more confident about getting on? I know I would!

 

[Wagtail]

Haven't read all the replies, but if you suspect ulcers insist your vet scopes him. Some ulcers are caused by bacterial infection so omaprazole won't heal them. Also, if you know it's ulcers and they've been treated, won't you feel more confident about getting on? I know I would!

Yes, I would feel more confident. But not all ulcers can be seen by scoping. And what if the vet doesn't see any? Yet the treatment has made a difference? It is also a very unpleasant and invasive procedure. In the US where they are far more advanced than we are in their treatment, they do not often scope. Instead, vets usually suggest an omeprazole trial, which is what I am doing. I know he will react without a rider if he is going to react at all, and it is always a few seconds to a few minutes after the tightening of the girth. In which case I will not get on him. I have a few more tests for him yet, before I get on. One of these is tacking up whilst he is tied up. This is almost guaranteed to get a reaction, if he's going to 'explode'.

 

[Wagtail]

Today he was not quite so relaxed. He was a bit of a pain to pick out his hind feet, kicking them about a lot. He had been a bit naughty for the farrier too yesterday. Anyway, I tacked him up carefully and fastened the girth loosely. We had no reactions, so that was good. In the arena, I gradually tightened the girth walking him around in between. I also did some leaning over him. He was very good, and stood really still, but his ears showed he was anxious. When I put all of my weight on him he jumped forwards a little, so I went back to just putting 3/4 of my weight on him and he stood fine. I lunged him over poles for five minutes, and again he was a little tense but no panic reactions. So not sure what to make of that really. He hasn't been ridden properly for around two years, and being a TB, maybe his anxiety was just normal for a hot blooded horse. What do you think?

I think I need to do a lot more ground work with him before properly getting on. But have a time contraint as need to let the blood bank know he isn't coming by the end of the month because he would need blood tests etc and have to go there in time for the Spring turnout. I don't want to mess them about. I know it would be a really good life for him. The type he would really enjoy as he is highly sociable and playful with other horses, and loves vets! They love him too. It seemed a life that would suit him down to the ground. But I don't want him to go either. If I can ride him, I have a good reason to keep him.

 

[Dizzydancer]

My tb took 6 months of being treated for ulcers and ground work and riding before he relaxed and realised it wasn't going to hurt. He was remembering pain and that is likely what your boy is doing. It was a gradual effort asking for no hard work just walking round fields etc, his first relaxation was when he actually started standing for mounting and then over months he relaxed quicker and reduced the hunching. Now i can ride with no tension at the start and very rarely does he hunch. Although i do tend to give him a month while spring grass comes through as that sets him off til he is used to it.
Good luck sounds like it could be positive.

 

[izmeister]

Sounds like a good start, mine was tested for ks, but had ligament damage on his back, after treating him he was very anxious about me getting back on, we took it very slowly, same as you, starting by not full weight on him, then built it up, it took 4 months, then with the help of naf magic, just to try to help him relax and worry less, i am back riding him, he is now better than ever! no more tension, no more explosive behaviour, and weaned off the magic calmer. Mine is a very sensitive chap, but we got there, keep at it with yours, sounds like you have a good chance with him.

 

[Wagtail]

Thanks both of you. That is very encouraging. I think the best thing is if I take him off the list for the blood bank and then give him another year. When he is being ridden, he really is my dream horse to ride. So light in the hand and quick off the leg. He doesn't have flashy paces. He's just very easy and correct.

 

[wench]

I've had a horse scoped before, the procedure was simply and easy, and provided me with quick answers.

 

[Hippona]

Wagtail, apologies if I've missed this, but what do you feed him? Have you tried Brewers yeast? One of mine gets grumpy and girthy in winter...he also used to do bucking in canter. Mine is best when given a small fibre meal before riding and really has to have adlib hay....he's been more relaxed and less grumpy since I started him on fast fibre and even more so after I started feeding him brewers yeast in it. Its good for the gut, and can have a calming effect too. Have you thought about liquorice root?
Have a look at http://www.naturalhorsesupplies.co.uk/

 

[Wagtail]

He is on pure feeds easy which has brewer's yeast in it and also pro hoof that has yae sac in it. I have not heard about liquorice root. Will take a look. Thank you

ETA: He has ad lib haylage and I always tack him up next to a hay net, so his stomach isn't empty. I am not sure it is ulcers. I am just treating him as though it is.

Wench, I am reluctant to scope due to the starvationperiod involved, and it can make them sore afterwards. If they have hindgut ulcers, they do not show up in any case. The abguard does seem to have made a big difference to his demeanor.